Old news.

[Superlative]

No.

What I find strange is that you cannot see how publicizing war related deaths is a demoralizing tactic.............and which side do you want to demoralize????

First of all, its not a "Tactic", its a fact of reality. The only tactic being utilised, is the Guys in charge hiding behind the Sacrifice and Honor of the dead, to hide the ugly truth of war.

You kind of just made my point.

You realize its demoralizing to see graphic images, BUT it is happenning, its being censored and turned into a much less bothersome and impersonal thinglike a number.

like I said. The pentagon could be more specific in their media Black out,

So as long as it still goes on without a human face, people will casually carry on with their lives, and they in turn, care less about the ramifications of the occupation.

 

[Superlative]

You are , of course , aware that Cindy Sheehan is despised by her entire family because of what she does with the memory of her dead son?

As for what families want, Hey I have an idea, as much as i despise Polls, you guys love them.... lets have a poll of American families that have service members in them and see what they think, perhaps even a poll of what the actual military members think... ohh wait, I forgot, they don't matter.

Give me some links. And I dont like polls.

 

[Superlative]

Out of sight out of mind.

Vietnam War (1965-73): 1 700 000 casualties.

How does it feel to have a number and an image?

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm#Vietnam

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There are not any that I know of, and THAT would be the point. Someone is afraid of what they will discover if they do these polls?

I do believe that someone did a poll a couple years ago but being mentally challenged I am not sure I can find it, and even if i do, I wouldn't doubt you would claim it was flawed.

You could of course do a google and read the blogs of the people that do know what they are talking about.

I live in a Marine Town, haven't seen any riots, protests or sit ins recently. No articles in the local press about the families demanding we get out of Iraq either. Been here the entire war too.

 

[Superlative]

I live in a Marine Town, haven't seen any riots, protests or sit ins recently. No articles in the local press about the families demanding we get out of Iraq either. Been here the entire war too.

But you are a part of a military family, and Im sure it would be more than little frowned upon if the families of people in Service, started complaining about orders.

You enlist to serve your country, and the entire family becomes a part of that, to question it, to engage in riots, protests, or sit ins, would make the families look a tad Unpatriotic, im sure resulting in a backlash against those taking part.

 

[Birdzeye]

No.

What I find strange is that you cannot see how publicizing war related deaths is a demoralizing tactic.............and which side do you want to demoralize????

Are you suggesting that the media should NOT tell the public that people, including our soldiers, have died in this war?

 

[Superlative]

Period US
6 ----- 345
5 ----- 933
4 ----- 715
3 ----- 580
2 ----- 718
1 ----- 140
Total 3431

This number is sad, and Im sure being the military men and proud Neocon(RSR) that you are, you can fully understand what this number means.

But what about the gen pop of America? the people who just see a number, because they arent allowed to see the images.

 

[Superlative]

Does seeing this give a different feel?

Total 3431

 

[CSM]

Its not my 'right' to know, its about the government controlling what gets shown to the public.

Does your political agenda override thee families right to privacy?

And if those images were in fact made public, the outcry against the occupation would be much louder.

I am glad that you are opposed to the propaganda used to aid and abet the enemy...or are you?

I respect the families losses, and their right to privacy, but do you think they now feel the occupation is worth it?

Yes. Before you spout off, I am willing to bet I know far more military families who have lost loved ones than you do and far more intimately.

Im sure there are many military wives and families, That wish more people knew their suffering, and understood fully, as they do the consequences of war.

You're sure are you. I bet you are speculating.

Cindy Sheehan, for all the complaining the Right does about her. You have to admit, your life would be forever changed if your Father, husband, brother, or son, (God forbid) were killed in Iraq. She has suffered a tremendous loss, and is fighting for what she believes in.

That does not mean her belief is correct. Some folks believe the moon is made of green cheese too.

But the public (imo) is being kept at a safe distance from exposure the consequences of whats going on. there is a conscious effort on the part of the Government to seperate the negative aspects of war by censoring negative imagery, of Dead Iraqi women and children, and the return of fallen soldiers.

Glad you made it clear that it is your opinion. Obviously, my opinion is somewhat different.

Everyone here can say the numbers and names are posted, everyone can say "if you want to find out, the info is there."

To put it bluntly, sports scores, are more readily available, if I want to find out about, baseball, I know there are sites that publish that info, there is also a sports segment on the nightly news, and in every daily paper.

Your sport scores are more accessable because you want them to be. Sports scores are also not entangled with a family's right to privacey. Did you add the link I provided to our 'favorites' list? If not, one could speculate that the names of the dead are not important to you personally except as a political quackery.

But a death toll is a lot different than finding out sports scores on my own time.

Again, a matter of what is important to YOU.

Is there a daily update of the Iraqi Coalition Casuality Count on your nightly news? or in your daily paper?

To be frank, I don't give a rat's ass about Iraqi casualty counts.

This is about Government turning death into numbers - 3431, US to date.

It's about people like you wanting to use the numbers for a political agenda...nothing more.

According to iraqbodycount.org from April 1 – 24th, 07 the Iraqi death toll reached 1223. Remember that’s only 24 days

Unmentionable is the idea that if those images were in fact made public at the rate they occur, which is daily, the outcry against the occupation of Iraq would be much louder.

You are correct.... the anti-war extremists would shrill all the louder but not because they care about the casualties or their families.

I concede, there is a limit, and I believe that the media should not take advantage of the situation and turn it into a circus, Which I can sadly, and honestly admit, they probably would.

First honest thing you have said in this post, imo.

But if the Pentagon can take the liberty to censor ALL images, why not be selective?

They are.

if youre so worried about the familes, keep permissable images restricted to closed caskets, and no pictures of family. just censor identities.

If you are so worried about casualties and their families, why do you advocate causing them even more pain than they are already experiencing.... I suspect I know why.

If they can censor it ALL, they can obviously censor specific things.

They do; that's why you dont get to see the imagery yo so badly want to use to make political hay.

Is the decision to censor media, up to the government, or the people?

Hmmm...in this case, it's the government...too bad for you, huh?

The further you go down this path, the more I suspect you are only interested in furthering a political POV. It's making you look ghoulish, to say the least.

 

[red states rule]

Does seeing this give a different feel?

Total 3431

Will you have a party if it reaches 4,000?

 

[red states rule]

Out of sight out of mind.

Vietnam War (1965-73): 1 700 000 casualties.

How does it feel to have a number and an image?

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm#Vietnam

and the US is responsible for this in what way?

 

[Care4all]

This has most likely been covered, but Im curious how people feel and if they care about the US Government's media control in regards to US military deaths.

Anyone care to defend this as anything other than public manipulation?

Out of sight Out of mind........



..........Since 1991, the media have been banned from covering the arrival of remains at Dover. The air base houses the military's largest mortuary, where bodies are prepared for burial before they are sent to the families' hometowns.

In March, before the Iraq war began, the Pentagon clamped down on similar coverage from military installations around the world, such as Ramstein Air Base in Germany or in Afghanistan. "The prohibition includes ... the movement of remains at any point," the Pentagon guidelines say.

The result is that images of caskets being returned to U.S. soil are not shown to the American public. This policy contrasts with Italy's national display of grief last month when 19 of that country's troops died in an Iraq suicide bombing and received a state funeral through the streets of Rome.............


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-12-31-casket-usat_x.htm

i think it is a mistake and it is unconstitutional....it breaks the 1st amendment.

 

[red states rule]

i think it is a mistake and it is unconstitutional....it breaks the 1st amendment.

Explain that to the familes of the dead troops

Would you stop the NY Times from showing video of a dying Marine?

 

[Superlative]

and the US is responsible for this in what way?

Maybe you should give yourself a little history lesson on Vietnam, and see how important this picture was to the American public.

 

[red states rule]

Maybe you should give yourself a little history lesson on Vietnam, and see how important this picture was to the American public.

The cop shot a punk who just murdered an entire family (who he was frineds with)

How do you blame the US for this?

 

[Superlative]

The cop shot a punk who just murdered an entire family (who he was frineds with)

How do you blame the US for this?

Through imagery like this the US public was awakened to the reality of the situation, they came to understand exactly the kind of things going on.

This cop was obviously Judge, Jury and Executioner.

 

[red states rule]

Through imagery like this the US public was awakened to the reality of the situation, they came to understand exactly the kind of things going on.

This cop was obviously Judge, Jury and Executioner.

There was a war going on

Libs have not changed much over the years - more worried about a killer then winning a war

Millions died after the US left - and the left wants to repeat the mistake in Iraq

 

[Superlative]

The further you go down this path, the more I suspect you are only interested in furthering a political POV. It's making you look ghoulish, to say the least.

Its not my 'right' to know, its about the government controlling what gets shown to the public.

Does your political agenda override thee families right to privacy?

I understand your point, that is why I have changed my stance to take the families into account. The government could choose to censor the identities of the soldiers and families, but they choose to suppress ALL images.
There would be no concern for families if all that was allowed to be shown were the caskets.

And if those images were in fact made public, the outcry against the occupation would be much louder.

I am glad that you are opposed to the propaganda used to aid and abet the enemy...or are you?

How does showing the public the consequences of war aid and abet the enemy? According to you, any sign of humility, or compassion is emboldening the enemy, We need to be 'brave' and ignore the consequences at all costs.

Youre twisting the point that the Government is taking liberties by controlling what the public sees.

I respect the families losses, and their right to privacy, but do you think they now feel the occupation is worth it?

Yes. Before you spout off, I am willing to bet I know far more military families who have lost loved ones than you do and far more intimately.

And you can attest they are living happily with their loss?

Im sure there are many military wives and families, That wish more people knew their suffering, and understood fully, as they do the consequences of war.

You're sure are you. I bet you are speculating.

You dont know me so dont assume I have not lost someone I love. If the person I lost could raise awareness to the public to change what occured, he would gladly agree people should know whats heppenning.

Cindy Sheehan, for all the complaining the Right does about her. You have to admit, your life would be forever changed if your Father, husband, brother, or son, (God forbid) were killed in Iraq. She has suffered a tremendous loss, and is fighting for what she believes in.

That does not mean her belief is correct. Some folks believe the moon is made of green cheese too.

Im speculating that people suffer when a family member dies? I know for a fact there is nothing worse than losing someone you love, for any reason.

Sheehan feels this occupation is wrong because it causes the death of American soldiers, and you dont?

But the public (imo) is being kept at a safe distance from exposure the consequences of whats going on. there is a conscious effort on the part of the Government to seperate the negative aspects of war by censoring negative imagery, of Dead Iraqi women and children, and the return of fallen soldiers.

Glad you made it clear that it is your opinion. Obviously, my opinion is somewhat different.

You dont think the goverment is purposely keeping people in the dark about the negative aspects of the occupation?

Everyone here can say the numbers and names are posted, everyone can say "if you want to find out, the info is there."

To put it bluntly, sports scores, are more readily available, if I want to find out about, baseball, I know there are sites that publish that info, there is also a sports segment on the nightly news, and in every daily paper.

Your sport scores are more accessable because you want them to be. Sports scores are also not entangled with a family's right to privacey. Did you add the link I provided to our 'favorites' list? If not, one could speculate that the names of the dead are not important to you personally except as a political quackery.

So its up to the gen pop to take it upon themselves to find out whats going on in the world? The MSM shouldnt do it in the paper or on the nightly news?

The government should black out whatever they want? The media should just be entertainment then?

And if people want to be informed, they can do it on their own time, online?

Dont you think that would seperate the majority of the population from reality?

But a death toll is a lot different than finding out sports scores on my own time.

Again, a matter of what is important to YOU.

So you think that death tolls are unimportant?,

This is about whats important being kept Unimportant by the gov, in order to avoid negative political pressure in regards to the occupation.

Is there a daily update of the Iraqi Coalition Casuality Count on your nightly news? or in your daily paper?

To be frank, I don't give a rat's ass about Iraqi casualty counts.

Isnt that what this is about? Are you even paying attention?

Well, I guess you dont read the title at the top of the page when you go to your favourites.

http://icasualties.org/oif/ which is Iraqi Coalition Casuality Count


This is about Government turning death into numbers - 3431, US to date.

It's about people like you wanting to use the numbers for a political agenda...nothing more.

Its about important information not being readily available to the public because the Government deems it so. They hide behind the honor and respect for the families of fallen soldiers to accomplish a unnecessarily broad media blackout of negative politically damaging images.

According to iraqbodycount.org from April 1 – 24th, 07 the Iraqi death toll reached 1223. Remember that’s only 24 days

Unmentionable is the idea that if those images were in fact made public at the rate they occur, which is daily, the outcry against the occupation of Iraq would be much louder.

You are correct.... the anti-war extremists would shrill all the louder but not because they care about the casualties or their families.

So when the public are allowed to see what the Government has hidden, (because is has been deemed unacceptable), all they would do is shrill louder?

You dont think this visual proof of death, this reminder of the consequences of this occupation is relevant?

You are right, about one thing, which is my point, The government is doing the censoring ON PURPOSE, not just for the greiving families, but to keep the public detached from the reality of whats happenning.

You feel that seeing the caskets (just the caskets, as I have specified) is unnecessary, and that it only furthers the loony agenda of the left?

I concede, there is a limit, and I believe that the media should not take advantage of the situation and turn it into a circus, Which I can sadly, and honestly admit, they probably would.

First honest thing you have said in this post, imo.

But if the Pentagon can take the liberty to censor ALL images, why not be selective?

They are.

How is banning ALL coverage of transport being selective? Unmarked un-named unidentifiable caskets would only further public awareness of the actual events. THAT would be selective.

if youre so worried about the familes, keep permissable images restricted to closed caskets, and no pictures of family. just censor identities.

If you are so worried about casualties and their families, why do you advocate causing them even more pain than they are already experiencing.... I suspect I know why.

I see, its my fault for wanting people, (other than the families who suffer) to be aware of something the government is blatently (imo) hiding.

If they can censor it ALL, they can obviously censor specific things.

They do; that's why you dont get to see the imagery yo so badly want to use to make political hay.

Again they censor ALL images, they could censor SPECIFIC things, if they freely use their power to control a broad range of images, they could censor SPECIFIC images, like the names, and identities of the families.

Is the decision to censor media, up to the government, or the people?

Hmmm...in this case, it's the government...too bad for you, huh?

It would appear that its too bad for alot of people as this Orewellian fantasy becomes more and more realistic.

 

[red states rule]

Look at the current polls coming out - it is bad news for the Dems

 

[Superlative]

Look at the current polls coming out - it is bad news for the Dems

You know where you can shove your poll. - yer butthole.


Say something new, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, You should stop yer lame ass one antagonistic liners, I would enjoy it if you have more than 5 shitty lines of your own uninventive words to spew, specifically some new opinions in which you dont bash Democrats.

or shut up.