Oh Those Neo-Cons?

[Annie]

http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2006/09/joke-at-kremlin.html

Thursday, September 14, 2006
A joke at the Kremlin
Nathan Sharansky relates a conversation he had with Vladimir Putin in 2000 at the Kremlin in an LA Times article:

"Imagine a sunny and beautiful day in a suburb of Manhattan," he [Putin] said. "An elderly man is tending to the roses in his small garden with his nephew visiting from Europe. Life seems perfectly normal. The following day, the nephew, carrying a suitcase, takes a train to Manhattan. Inside the suitcase is a nuclear bomb."

The threat, Putin explained to me a year before 9/11, was not from this or that country but from their terrorist proxies — aided and supported quietly by a sovereign state that doesn't want to get its hands dirty — who will perpetrate their attacks without a return address. This scenario became real when Al Qaeda plotted its 9/11 attacks from within Afghanistan and received support from the Taliban government. Then it happened again this summer, when Iran was allowed to wage a proxy war through Hezbollah in southern Lebanon and northern Israel.​

One consequence of the politics of the last five yeas will be to ensure that such warnings will on no account be taken seriously. 'A sovereign state attacking America through proxies? Don't be ridiculous. Those are stories that neoconservatives tell. If there were secret links between terrorist enabling states and terrorists we would have found out.' Now whether such accusations were ever true in the past is immaterial. They won't be considered true in the future. Not because there is some physical or factual bar to its existence but a political prohibition of its utterance.

But the really harmful consequence of not recognizing proxy warfare and addressing it openly is that it creates a subterranean world of countermeasures. A black market in defense. The present war is one no one wants to know anything about; that polite society wants to pretend doesn't exist. Viewed from one angle the history of Western counterterrorism is the history of concealment, with counterterrorism nearly as well hidden as their quarry. It is about faceless groups of men in pursuit of even shadowier figures across a secret landscape. By day we live in genteel world where we speak deferentially of other cultures; listen politely to Amnesty International; pretend we believe in the United Nations; are aghast at the suggestion of asking a prisoner for more than his name, rank and serial number. But by night we sleep in a decaying jungle of creeping horrors, one in which a suitcase nuclear weapon is simply another grotesque, a nightmare which intrudes upon the waking world only in the ghostly setting of the Kremlin, as between an ex-spymaster and a former Zek. There we can somehow speak its name.

But how if Sharansky told Putin. "Yes, Vladimir. Imagine a wonderful dusk in Moscow, or Teheran, or Damascus. The work of the day is done; and strong, capable men lock their safes and wait for the limousines to carry them to the secret policeman's ball. There will be women, wine! Especially in Teheran there will be wine! And somewhere on those darkened streets a man may take a suitcase from a car and sets it very carefully in a bus station locker. Quietly. As if he were afraid to awaken something sleeping. Not from my country, Vladimir. But from some other, lawless country, one that doesn't want to get its hands dirty — who will perpetrate their attacks without a return address. What should we do about that Vladimir?"

posted by wretchard at 9/14/2006 10:41:00 PM

 

[William Joyce]

The U.S. is the proxy for Jewish war on the world. Speaking of not getting your hands dirty.

 

[Annie]

The U.S. is the proxy for Jewish war on the world. Speaking of not getting your hands dirty.

and Israel is the US proxy in the ME. Your point?

 

[Gunny]

The U.S. is the proxy for Jewish war on the world. Speaking of not getting your hands dirty.

An absurd statement and point of view.

 

[glockmail]

The U.S. is the proxy for Jewish war on the world. Speaking of not getting your hands dirty.

The Jews are at war with the world? Please explain.

 

[Gunny]

The Jews are at war with the world? Please explain.

He rarely responds or returns to defend his statements, so I'll give you the short version ...

WilliamJoyce is the head white supremicist around here. The logical conclusion one would come to knowing this is that the US is embroiled in war in the Middle East to appease our Jewish masters, who, happen to control our government and our wealth.

Aren't you glad you know that now?

 

[glockmail]

He rarely responds or returns to defend his statements, so I'll give you the short version ...

I already had him figgered, but thanks. I notice there are quite a few bomb-throwers here hat can't defend themselves. We should have a separate area just to discuss them.

 

[CSM]

I already had him figgered, but thanks. I notice there are quite a few bomb-throwers here hat can't defend themselves. We should have a separate area just to discuss them.

There is! But if we told everyone it wouldn't be secret anymore!

 

[William Joyce]

I would say that I defend myself pretty well and back up my admittedly politically incorrect opinions with facts.

Fact: The Unites States supports Israel unconditionally, feeding it billions of dollars in cash and weaponry.

Fact: It is virtually alone in doing so.

Fact: The U.S. media is heavily dominated by Jews. They prefer liberal domestic policy and... warmongering foreign policy, at least against Arab countries/Muslims. The U.S. government is heavily dominated by Jews, all three branches. In Congress, they are overrepresented by a huge margin. In the executive branch, they have "Offices of Special Plans" in the Pentagon, Perle, Feith, Wolfowitz, etc., Scooter Libby, etc.

http://www.natall.com/who-rules-america/

Prof. Kevin MacDonald of the University of California has written a very through and heavily documented set of books on this:

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/books-Preface.html

Fact: The "neocon" Jews were virtually alone in seeking war on Iraq. They outlined their plans for this to secure ISRAEL's safety long before 9/11 in a paper found here:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1438.htm

See Pat Buchanan's masterful analysis here:

http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

Reasonable Conclusion: The heavy dominance of media and government by pro-Israel Jews accounts for our heavily lopsided support for Israel.

Assertion: None of this advances America's interests, only Israel's. In fact, it hurts our interests. Great treatment of this recently by Walt and Mearshimer of Harvard and University of Chicago:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

 

[trobinett]

I would say that I defend myself pretty well and back up my admittedly politically incorrect opinions with facts.

Fact: The Unites States supports Israel unconditionally, feeding it billions of dollars in cash and weaponry.

Fact: It is virtually alone in doing so.

Fact: The U.S. media is heavily dominated by Jews. They prefer liberal domestic policy and... warmongering foreign policy, at least against Arab countries/Muslims. The U.S. government is heavily dominated by Jews, all three branches. In Congress, they are overrepresented by a huge margin. In the executive branch, they have "Offices of Special Plans" in the Pentagon, Perle, Feith, Wolfowitz, etc., Scooter Libby, etc.

Fact: The "neocon" Jews were virtually alone in seeking war on Iraq. They outlined their plans for this to secure ISRAEL's safety long before 9/11 in a paper found here:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1438.htm

Reasonable Conclusion: The heavy dominance of media and government by pro-Israel Jews accounts for our heavily lopsided support for Israel.

Assertion: None of this advances America's interests, only Israel's. In fact, it hurts our interests.

Ok, lets say I buy into what your saying, and to a great part, it makes perfect sense. But, Hollywood, and most of the film making industry is controlled by Jew's, isn't that correct?

So why is Hollywood so againts the administration, no matter, WHO the administration happens to be?

Is it just a "smoke screen"?

I'd be curious to know your thoughts.

 

[William Joyce]

That's a good question. I think the answer is that Hollywood Jews tend to push the domestic line more (with actual results being liberal domestic policy) and neocon Jews push the foreign policy. Both don't push it quite as hard outside their areas of expertise or commitment --- i.e., no Jewish neocon has EVER supported, successfully, a conservative policy position domestically. And no Jewish liberal has ever been successful in stopping a war in the middle east (whatever happened to Paul Wellstone, anyway? Did his plane really just "crash"? Alright, I won't go there...)

BUT nota bene: Hollywood was a fierce promoter of U.S. involvement in WWII, which of course worked to the benefit of European Jews persecuted by Hitler. They were fierce OPPONENTS of Vietnam, which did not advance Jewish interests in any measurable way. As to the Gulf War(s), well, most of the slim moviemaking has been about how "oil" is what drives the conflict.

So in that sense, maybe it's just a smokescreen, though I wouldn't blame someone for dismissing that as a little bit too much of an anti-Jewish conspiracy theory. Still, it's good enough for me!

The bottom line shouldn't be too controversial: Jews are a close-knit, cooperative and highly intelligent group of folks who work hard to advance their own group interests, whether that be the security of Israel or the security of themselves within sometimes hostile gentile societies like the United States, Germany, France, Britain, etc. The problem (and controversy) is that this striving sometimes comes at gentile expense. That's where most Jews would disagree, though they would probably acknowledge the first point. Clearly, if your gentile son is dying in a war that helps Israel but not his own country, that's 1) an advancement of Jewish interests and 2) a reduction of yours.

 

[Gunny]

That's a good question. I think the answer is that Hollywood Jews tend to push the domestic line more (with actual results being liberal domestic policy) and neocon Jews push the foreign policy. Both don't push it quite as hard outside their areas of expertise or commitment --- i.e., no Jewish neocon has EVER supported, successfully, a conservative policy position domestically. And no Jewish liberal has ever been successful in stopping a war in the middle east (whatever happened to Paul Wellstone, anyway? Did his plane really just "crash"? Alright, I won't go there...)

BUT nota bene: Hollywood was a fierce promoter of U.S. involvement in WWII, which of course worked to the benefit of European Jews persecuted by Hitler. They were fierce OPPONENTS of Vietnam, which did not advance Jewish interests in any measurable way. As to the Gulf War(s), well, most of the slim moviemaking has been about how "oil" is what drives the conflict.

So in that sense, maybe it's just a smokescreen, though I wouldn't blame someone for dismissing that as a little bit too much of an anti-Jewish conspiracy theory. Still, it's good enough for me!

The bottom line shouldn't be too controversial: Jews are a close-knit, cooperative and highly intelligent group of folks who work hard to advance their own group interests, whether that be the security of Israel or the security of themselves within sometimes hostile gentile societies like the United States, Germany, France, Britain, etc. The problem (and controversy) is that this striving sometimes comes at gentile expense. That's where most Jews would disagree, though they would probably acknowledge the first point. Clearly, if your gentile son is dying in a war that helps Israel but not his own country, that's 1) an advancement of Jewish interests and 2) a reduction of yours.

You're cracking me up. The Jews control almost everything in our Nation according to you, and they're basically a fraternal order bent on world domination.

GMAFB.

 

[Annie]

You're cracking me up. The Jews control almost everything in our Nation according to you, and they're basically a fraternal order bent on world domination.

GMAFB.

yeah, they don't have enough problems with their own borders. They are going for world domination. How stupid of you not to have figured that out!

 

[Gunny]

yeah, they don't have enough problems with their own borders. They are going for world domination. How stupid of you not to have figured that out!

Better watch it. I saw you profess to be a ***shudder*** Catholic. I'm sure y'all's conspiracy isn't too far down the list. We know Catholics and Jews are plotting to take over and split the world.

 

[Annie]

Better watch it. I saw you profess to be a ***shudder*** Catholic. I'm sure y'all's conspiracy isn't too far down the list. We know Catholics and Jews are plotting to take over and split the world.

Even worse. Some Jesuit based, Socratic teachings...

In Chicago, Quigley Prep was announced closing. The Cardinal noted that they've turned out way more lawyers than priests. Might have something to do with the 'reason' that so many miss with religion? Ya think?

 

[Gunny]

Even worse. Some Jesuit based, Socratic teachings...

In Chicago, Quigley Prep was announced closing. The Cardinal noted that they've turned out way more lawyers than priests. Might have something to do with the 'reason' that so many miss with religion? Ya think?

Our society is attempting to replace religion with intellectualism. Problem is, intellectuals so over-think everything out of context and inject moral relativism into everything, they may as well worship the Great Pumpkin for all the sense they make.

And, there's more money in being a lawyer than a priest.

 

[Annie]

Our society is attempting to replace religion with intellectualism. Problem is, intellectuals so over-think everything out of context and inject moral relativism into everything, they may as well worship the Great Pumpkin for all the sense they make.

And, there's more money in being a lawyer than a priest.

I might be wrong, has happened, but I'll bet you're Protestant.

It's way hard to 'over intellectualize' in Catholocism.

 

[Gunny]

I might be wrong, has happened, but I'll bet you're Protestant.

It's way hard to 'over intellectualize' in Catholocism.

I am protestant. However, I was referring to intellectualism luring people away from the church rather than intellectualism within.

 

[Annie]

I am protestant. However, I was referring to intellectualism luring people away from the church rather than intellectualism within.

I do agree. I think many, including Catholics, would be surprised just how rational the Catholic Church teachings are, at least since the Reformation.

 

[Said1]

Better watch it. I saw you profess to be a ***shudder*** Catholic. I'm sure y'all's conspiracy isn't too far down the list. We know Catholics and Jews are plotting to take over and split the world.[/QUOTE]

And I get the top half. We'll be nice and toasty once global warming kicks into high gear.