Obama owes thanks, apology, to CIA

[Modbert]

Are any of the sources topical in this thread?

Sure. Here's an interesting article about India in this whole mess.

We Told You So - By Henry Foy | Foreign Policy

Also:

Bin Laden apparently not on dialysis | FP Passport

 

[rightwinger]

I agree with the opinion piece. He not only owes them an apology, and a bitchslap for the idiots at 'Justice', he owes them a public thank you.

It is the left who rant about the CIA and it was the CIA who found Bin Laden. If the left had their way, we would have no CIA.
eeGod bless the CIA.

Can you name who on the left said there should be no CIA?

The left did say that the CIA needs to be accountable. They had no clue about 9-11. They botched or doctored the slam dunk evidence on Iraq. They bought into deceptive curveball evidence on Iraq

CIA fucked up and they were held accountable. CIA nailed it with OBL and they earned praise

 

[rightwinger]

Yanno......wiki is a good source to start with, because yeah, it's easy to navigate and find stuff out. But here's the thing........wiki gets it's sources from all over the planet, and people can contribute to it. And you've gotta admit, they've gotten a hell of a lot better checking things out than when they first started. Matter of fact, I'd trust wiki as much as I trust HS textbooks, which is to say, quite a bit.

However..........I also check other sources like MSNBC and the BBC, and cross check to make sure all of 'em match. If they don't, then I start looking for why.

BBC is a fantastic website. The Guardian is as well. I'd also recommend foreignpolicy.com. They always have fantastic articles about current events and both sides are represented.

As for wiki, I like to think of it as a good starting point. If anything seems off-kilter, good to see where the information is being originally sourced from. And they have gotten better at checking things over the years.

The BBC admits that it leans left. It's been criticized for years for their left wing bias. The Guardian is Britain's major left wing newspaper. Why and I not surprised that your 'sources' all lean left? Where the hell is your balance?

BBC is not the equivalent of the British Tabloids. It remains one of the most trusted sources of news in the world

 

[Samson]

I agree with the opinion piece. He not only owes them an apology, and a bitchslap for the idiots at 'Justice', he owes them a public thank you.

It is the left who rant about the CIA and it was the CIA who found Bin Laden. If the left had their way, we would have no CIA.
eeGod bless the CIA.

Can you name who on the left said there should be no CIA?

The left did say that the CIA needs to be accountable. They had no clue about 9-11. They botched or doctored the slam dunk evidence on Iraq. They bought into deceptive curveball evidence on Iraq

CIA fucked up and they were held accountable. CIA nailed it with OBL and they earned praise

Did they "earn praise?"

I haven't heard Rachel Maddow bubbling over.

 

[Ravi]

Obama owes thanks, and an apology, to CIA interrogators

Marc A. Thiessen,

In normal times, the officials who uncovered the intelligence that led us to Osama bin Laden would get a medal. In the Obama administration, they have been given subpoenas.

On his second day in office, Obama shut down the CIA’s high-value interrogation program. His Justice Department then reopened criminal investigations into the conduct of CIA interrogators — inquiries that had been closed years before by career prosecutors who concluded that there were no crimes to prosecute. In a speech at the National Archives, Obama eviscerated the men and women of the CIA, accusing them of “torture” and declaring that their work “did not advance our war and counterterrorism efforts — they undermined them.”

Obama owes thanks, and an apology, to CIA interrogators - The Washington Post

Should anyone wonder if Osama's death will help the perpetually clueless Obama?

What high value interrogation program would that be?

*crickets*

Why on earth did I think samson had an intelligent point to make.

 

[Samson]

Are any of the sources topical in this thread?

Sure. Here's an interesting article about India in this whole mess.

We Told You So - By Henry Foy | Foreign Policy

Also:

Bin Laden apparently not on dialysis | FP Passport

Um, you realise the thread is about the irony that the Obama Administration demonized the CIA for interrogative techniques that helped Obama give the OBL kill order?

It is not about India, or Dialysis...

 

[Trajan]

Citing an OPINION PIECE?

You've gotta be kidding.

why? the whole NY Times is basically opinion...so?

 

[Modbert]

Um, you realise the thread is about the irony that the Obama Administration demonized the CIA for interrogative techniques that helped Obama give the OBL kill order?

It is not about India, or Dialysis...

I thought you meant in general about the Osama situation.

Here's an article more aligned to the topic you are talking about:

Tortured Logic - By Matthew Alexander | Foreign Policy

Though that may not be specific enough to the topic at hand for your tastes.

 

[Trajan]

Obama owes thanks, and an apology, to CIA interrogators

Marc A. Thiessen,

In normal times, the officials who uncovered the intelligence that led us to Osama bin Laden would get a medal. In the Obama administration, they have been given subpoenas.

On his second day in office, Obama shut down the CIA’s high-value interrogation program. His Justice Department then reopened criminal investigations into the conduct of CIA interrogators — inquiries that had been closed years before by career prosecutors who concluded that there were no crimes to prosecute. In a speech at the National Archives, Obama eviscerated the men and women of the CIA, accusing them of “torture” and declaring that their work “did not advance our war and counterterrorism efforts — they undermined them.”

Obama owes thanks, and an apology, to CIA interrogators - The Washington Post

Should anyone wonder if Osama's death will help the perpetually clueless Obama?

I agree, I started a thread on these grounds but it was rolled up into the big osama he dead thread.....if you really want to cut to the chase, there is big push back as to allowing it to get out or be acknowledged that harsh interrogation in a foreign prison(s) started the ball rolling.

BUT there is little push back on shooting a guy out of hand, I am not saying we should not have, I agree with what Obama did, but theres some real intellectual dis-honesty going on when those same folks want to make a case that harsh interrogation has to be outlawed but will assassinate a guy on the spot.

 

[Samson]

Um, you realise the thread is about the irony that the Obama Administration demonized the CIA for interrogative techniques that helped Obama give the OBL kill order?

It is not about India, or Dialysis...

I thought you meant in general about the Osama situation.

Here's an article more aligned to the topic you are talking about:

Tortured Logic - By Matthew Alexander | Foreign Policy

Though that may not be specific enough to the topic at hand for your tastes.

Actually the India perspective was quite fascinating.

However the "Tortured Logic" article was topically spot on, and most illuminating:

The key pieces of information, however, were the courier's real name and location. His family name was first uncovered by CIA assets in Pakistan through other sources. The NSA subsequently figured out his full real name and location from an intercepted phone call. Waterboarding had nothing to do with it

 

[Modbert]

Actually the India perspective was quite fascinating.

However the "Tortured Logic" article was topically spot on, and most illuminating:

The key pieces of information, however, were the courier's real name and location. His family name was first uncovered by CIA assets in Pakistan through other sources. The NSA subsequently figured out his full real name and location from an intercepted phone call. Waterboarding had nothing to do with it

They always have fascinating articles. Especially about topics that don't nearly get as much coverage as they should in the media.

 

[rightwinger]

Um, you realise the thread is about the irony that the Obama Administration demonized the CIA for interrogative techniques that helped Obama give the OBL kill order?

It is not about India, or Dialysis...

I thought you meant in general about the Osama situation.

Here's an article more aligned to the topic you are talking about:

Tortured Logic - By Matthew Alexander | Foreign Policy

Though that may not be specific enough to the topic at hand for your tastes.

Actually the India perspective was quite fascinating.

However the "Tortured Logic" article was topically spot on, and most illuminating:

The key pieces of information, however, were the courier's real name and location. His family name was first uncovered by CIA assets in Pakistan through other sources. The NSA subsequently figured out his full real name and location from an intercepted phone call. Waterboarding had nothing to do with it

Intelligence involves putting together a complex puzzle and trying to figure out which puzzle pieces belong and how they fit

There is no question that many of the puzzle pieces were gathered under the Bush administration and the final completion of the Where is Bin Laden puzzle was done by the Obama administration

 

[Wiseacre]

Does anyone know if the Justice Dept is still investigating the CIA and others for suspected criminal activity vis-a-vis EIT or anytihng else? The same people that started the ball rolling in the search for OBL that eventually led to sunday's raid?

Obama won't halt Justice's probe of CIA - Washington Times

President Obama said Sunday he will not intervene to halt a Justice Department investigation into harsh tactics used by Central Intelligence Agency agents when questioning terror suspects

nice.

FYI, according to this column in todays's WAPO, the investigation has not been closed. No doubt Obama will not come out and say that the investigation is over for fear of upsetting his base, nor will he ever bring any charges or say the investigation s still ongoing for fear of upsetting everyone else. The man must have the sorest crotch in Washington, straddling that fense for so long.

It does say that Obama owes the CIA operatives and analysts an apology, which is the God's truth. It also points out that waterboarding or other EIT is not designed to obtain data, but to put the person into a cooperative frame of mind where useful information can be had afterwards.

Obama owes thanks, and an apology, to CIA interrogators - The Washington Post

 

[Samson]

I thought you meant in general about the Osama situation.

Here's an article more aligned to the topic you are talking about:

Tortured Logic - By Matthew Alexander | Foreign Policy

Though that may not be specific enough to the topic at hand for your tastes.

Actually the India perspective was quite fascinating.

However the "Tortured Logic" article was topically spot on, and most illuminating:

The key pieces of information, however, were the courier's real name and location. His family name was first uncovered by CIA assets in Pakistan through other sources. The NSA subsequently figured out his full real name and location from an intercepted phone call. Waterboarding had nothing to do with it

Intelligence involves putting together a complex puzzle and trying to figure out which puzzle pieces belong and how they fit

There is no question that many of the puzzle pieces were gathered under the Bush administration and the final completion of the Where is Bin Laden puzzle was done by the Obama administration

No doubt.

But it doesn't sound like the CIA's practice of waterboarding produced anything of substance in taking out OBL

 

[Trajan]

Actually the India perspective was quite fascinating.

However the "Tortured Logic" article was topically spot on, and most illuminating:

Intelligence involves putting together a complex puzzle and trying to figure out which puzzle pieces belong and how they fit

There is no question that many of the puzzle pieces were gathered under the Bush administration and the final completion of the Where is Bin Laden puzzle was done by the Obama administration

No doubt.

But it doesn't sound like the CIA's practice of waterboarding produced anything of substance in taking out OBL

well, I have to go with haden, tenet, ,the head of the zarqawi/ksm intel team that was on and I heard say it straight out, and some intutitive and critcal thinking and logic.

gathering Intel is very long process and one that requires repeated questions that are meant to flag lies and confuse, they ask so many that eventually they the prisoner forget or get caught up in a lie, lies are just as important as truth as it points to dogs that don't bark, or that they want you to believe don't bark or bark for the wrong reasons..... so I ask ksm who is the courier, he says what courier ? Thats your first ahah moment, I say I have been told he is so and so and he knows this and that and he says no, he knows squat BUT ksm doesn't know that you have a piece of intel that says HE MAY be important, by ksms downplaying the courier ands even denying his existence, he was without realizing it, telling them he was important........I hope that makes sense.

These guys are pros, when they are done you're drained and believe me, they know alot more than you told them by using a lot of other snippets to affirm or disprove whats been said, as KSM never knew how much we did or didn't know.

 

[blastoff]

Yeah, who'd believe a verbatim quote written in an opinion piece?

 

[Samson]

Yeah, who'd believe a verbatim quote written in an opinion piece?

Look around, fool.

90% of the threads OP's are based on opinion.

 

[Samson]

Intelligence involves putting together a complex puzzle and trying to figure out which puzzle pieces belong and how they fit

There is no question that many of the puzzle pieces were gathered under the Bush administration and the final completion of the Where is Bin Laden puzzle was done by the Obama administration

No doubt.

But it doesn't sound like the CIA's practice of waterboarding produced anything of substance in taking out OBL

well, I have to go with haden, tenet, ,the head of the zarqawi/ksm intel team that was on and I heard say it straight out, and some intutitive and critcal thinking and logic.

gathering Intel is very long process and one that requires repeated questions that are meant to flag lies and confuse, they ask so many that eventually they the prisoner forget or get caught up in a lie, lies are just as important as truth as it points to dogs that don't bark, or that they want you to believe don't bark or bark for the wrong reasons..... so I ask ksm who is the courier, he says what courier ? Thats your first ahah moment, I say I have been told he is so and so and he knows this and that and he says no, he knows squat BUT ksm doesn't know that you have a piece of intel that says HE MAY be important, by ksms downplaying the courier ands even denying his existence, he was without realizing it, telling them he was important........I hope that makes sense.

These guys are pros, when they are done you're drained and believe me, they know alot more than you told them by using a lot of other snippets to affirm or disprove whats been said, as KSM never knew how much we did or didn't know.

I think what you are saying is that while waterboarding might not have been the MAJOR component, or even the Minor component, in determining intel for OBL's location, it did assist interrogators in some indirect capacity.

I could imagine that the Obama Administration would do its damnedest to play down the role of waterboarding because it was one of the political levers they pulled during the 2008to further demonize Bush, and hope for collateral damage to McCain.

 

[Wry Catcher]

No doubt.

But it doesn't sound like the CIA's practice of waterboarding produced anything of substance in taking out OBL

well, I have to go with haden, tenet, ,the head of the zarqawi/ksm intel team that was on and I heard say it straight out, and some intutitive and critcal thinking and logic.

gathering Intel is very long process and one that requires repeated questions that are meant to flag lies and confuse, they ask so many that eventually they the prisoner forget or get caught up in a lie, lies are just as important as truth as it points to dogs that don't bark, or that they want you to believe don't bark or bark for the wrong reasons..... so I ask ksm who is the courier, he says what courier ? Thats your first ahah moment, I say I have been told he is so and so and he knows this and that and he says no, he knows squat BUT ksm doesn't know that you have a piece of intel that says HE MAY be important, by ksms downplaying the courier ands even denying his existence, he was without realizing it, telling them he was important........I hope that makes sense.

These guys are pros, when they are done you're drained and believe me, they know alot more than you told them by using a lot of other snippets to affirm or disprove whats been said, as KSM never knew how much we did or didn't know.

I think what you are saying is that while waterboarding might not have been the MAJOR component, or even the Minor component, in determining intel for OBL's location, it did assist interrogators in some indirect capacity.

I could imagine that the Obama Administration would do its damnedest to play down the role of waterboarding because it was one of the political levers they pulled during the 2008to further demonize Bush, and hope for collateral damage to McCain.

I could and do imagine that the Obama Administration would play down the role of waterboarding and other means of torture for several reasons. Of course cause and effect are always clear to those with a partisan agenda.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yanno...........considering that under the Geneva Conventions, torture is illegal, and considering that we are a nation who is supposed to follow them, yeah.........I think that all people who used "enhanced interrogation" (i.e. waterboarding) SHOULD be investigated.

I mean.........if the military went against the conventions, don't you think that whoever ordered it and whoever participated in it would be investigated as well?

Remember Abu Grahib?