NY to LA for Free: Tesla Plans Dramatic Expansion of Charger Network

[Steelplate]

True, and I certainly cannot afford one. However, priced a new Buick SUV. $52,000+. And if you price other cars that have the performance and agility of the Tesla S, you will see that it is not overpriced. Just that most of us are not in that category.

I think you misunderstood....I wasn't saying that the car is overpriced...just that it's unaffordable to most of us. Which is what you are saying too.

There has to be a way to mainstream electrics. The answer is obviously in the batteries. I saw a piece on a guy that built.battery swap stations across two or three European countries, Israel. And was working on rolling it out in Austrailia to prove it could be done.on a large scale. It only takes 5 minutes to swap out the battery.

There is a catch though. Manufacturers would have to consciously decide to standardize their batteries. The guy was saying that it brought the sticker price of a 40k electric car down to the 15-17k range, and the cost to roll out the swapping stations nationwide was consistently around the same cost...about one week's worth of what that country consumes in oil.

It's an idea...but that would mean information sharing between.manufacturers...I don't think that would fly here...especially if they used Tesla's battery technology, which destroys the competition right now.

 

[JWBooth]

That is not the case at all. Look at the number of cars on the road in that price range. There are quite a lot of them. My supervisor is planning on buying a Tesla S. It would save him over $200 a month on his commute.

Right now, you get free charging for life when you buy a Tesla. But, as they sell more, I imagine that will go away, and you will pay for the charge. Probably about 1/3 what gasoline would cost you.

$200 a month.
What will his monthly payments be?

Not much differant than what he pays for his Toyota Land Cruiser. Which he really has no use for.

My point was the long term silliness, something hardly new or limited to Tesla, of spending $50 -$100k over the term of a loan to save $15 - $30k for whatever rationalised reason. I considered buying a motorcycle when gas topped $3 a gallon. My ever practical wife pointed out how many years I'd have to ride to justify parking my truck. Economically it was a losing proposition.

 

[flacaltenn]

The claim that these stations are Solar Powered (never mind being "free") caught my interest because I imagined there'd be an ACRE of solar panels to back up Musk's mouth..

If the amount of solar electricity from those wimpy panels is sufficient to fully charge even 1.5 TESLAs a day --- I'll buy one. How's that for a bet?

Furthermore -- those panels are most likely grid-tied (unless he's got 4 tons of batteries buried underground.) This means that almost ALL of the charger energy comes from the grid. It requires 150KW to get his claimed 20 minutes charge time.

That's 120 average houses worth of power.

The solar panels are there for show and PR.. The most they do -- is keep you dry when it's raining..

I'm rapidly faith in Elon.. He's not gonna have much street cred when this is all over.

 

[flacaltenn]

I also want to know what liability he faces for charging NON-TESLA cars. The charge systems for the various models are very unique and finicky. And the RATE of charge is critical. How much does the driver have to know to avoid VOIDING his battery warranty from another manufacturer.

Or do Honda and Toyota and Nissan drivers all get a slow charge rate equivalent to the manufacturers suggested 7 or 8 hour rate???

Let's not ignore the engineering type of questions here folks -- before you do the end zone dance..

 

[KissMy]

The claim that these stations are Solar Powered (never mind being "free") caught my interest because I imagined there'd be an ACRE of solar panels to back up Musk's mouth..

If the amount of solar electricity from those wimpy panels is sufficient to fully charge even 1.5 TESLAs a day --- I'll buy one. How's that for a bet?

Furthermore -- those panels are most likely grid-tied (unless he's got 4 tons of batteries buried underground.) This means that almost ALL of the charger energy comes from the grid. It requires 150KW to get his claimed 20 minutes charge time.

That's 120 average houses worth of power.

The solar panels are there for show and PR.. The most they do -- is keep you dry when it's raining..

I'm rapidly faith in Elon.. He's not gonna have much street cred when this is all over.

There are tons of on-site battery storage. Wind turbines create most of their power at night when demand is low. Many states produce more wind power than their entire grid consumes at night. Thus power gets dumped, but now it can be stored in cars plugged in at night & Tesla stations on-site batteries. BTW Tesla's founder Elon Musk also co-founded "Solar City" that pumps power into the grid all day. That will also be used to charge these cars.

 

[flacaltenn]

KissMy -- This article answers a bunch of my questions..

Tesla's Fast Chargers Could Be a Financial Liability | MIT Technology Review

UPDATE: Tesla says that two of the six stations “are being set up to receive a stationary battery” that would allow them to avoid “any excessive demand charge.” The cost for each station, which will charge between 4 to 6 cars, ranges from $100,000 to $250,000.

Seems like Elon MIGHT put these expensive batteries into SOME of the stations underground, but the general observation stands with or without the on-site storage. There is not enough solar panel on the charger to even charge ONE Tesla per sunny day and Musk is gonna end up PAYING huge amounts to 100 different utility companies a month if he insists on keeping this benefit. This is the SAME result that any individual would have with trying to power their house AND their car from the roof.

Which is why I HIGHLY doubt that any car is gonna become a nighttime "generator" on the grid. That my bud is in the realm of fantastic naivety about the economics and practicalies of what you suggest.

[[EDIT Sorry I misread your statement.. I thought you were repeating this Internet fantasy some proffessor started about storing excess home solar in car during the day and using it at night. The idiot even thought there would be excess to "sell back" at night to support the grid.. However -- even tho EV COULD store excess generation from wind at night -- utilities have to design to demand so by definition any excess is dumped to ground or sold to neighbors. So the excess wind is backed by PRIMARY reliable generation to the full extent of the load when the wind DOESN'T blow at all night. And all the wind excess means is that the utility is currently overbuilt for their peak wind demand. ]]

Also from the article above ---

. In the case of Tesla, the stations won’t bring in any revenue directly, since Model S owners won’t have to pay to use them and no one else—not even Tesla Roadster owners—will be able to plug in to the proprietary system.

Thus my confusion about these being used for any other model. They won't support it and it would be complicated if they did.. So charging stations IN GENERAL will either LIMIT charge rates to comply with the bulk of manufacturers or have to have several selections of charging regime.

My guess is that commercial chargers --- to LIMIT LIABILITY -- will restrict themselves to relatively slower charge rates than the incredible HYPE we've heard about 20minutes or even the BS of 2minutes.

 

[KissMy]

A typical gas station cost $5 million to build. Tesla stations don't require cash registers, employees, water, sewer, gas, EPA regs, underground tanks, leak detection, spill containment, vapor recovery, etc. He can build 20 Tesla charging stations for the price of 1 gas station. All that savings can go into charging the cars he sold for free creating more sales & advertising. He got a lot of money up front from the sale of those cars that he can use to make money with. Electricity is dirt cheap compared to gas, it won't cost much to keep charging those cars. Elon Musk & his brother used to be bankers. So he is not just a genius inventor, creator & product designer, he is also a genius at making money.

 

[flacaltenn]

A typical gas station cost $5 million to build. Tesla stations don't require cash registers, employees, water, sewer, gas, EPA regs, underground tanks, leak detection, spill containment, vapor recovery, etc. He can build 20 Tesla charging stations for the price of 1 gas station. All that savings can go into charging the cars he sold for free creating more sales & advertising. He got a lot of money up front from the sale of those cars that he can use to make money with. Electricity is dirt cheap compared to gas, it won't cost much to keep charging those cars. Elon Musk & his brother used to be bankers. So he is not just a genius inventor, creator & product designer, he is also a genius at making money.

So after being stranded for 20 minutes without a bathroom, a fizzy soda or some lottery scratchers --- you're gonna stop at a REAL gas station to fill your tires and water your windshield wipers and take a leak? They are only free because you're paying for them when you buy this PARTICULAR car whether you can use them or not. They are benny for the folks who live NEAR THEM, paid for by the vast majority of folks that don't.. That would be redistribution of wealth and costs, wouldn't it? Smart? Yeah... but a bit devious don'tchathink?

 

[KissMy]

A typical gas station cost $5 million to build. Tesla stations don't require cash registers, employees, water, sewer, gas, EPA regs, underground tanks, leak detection, spill containment, vapor recovery, etc. He can build 20 Tesla charging stations for the price of 1 gas station. All that savings can go into charging the cars he sold for free creating more sales & advertising. He got a lot of money up front from the sale of those cars that he can use to make money with. Electricity is dirt cheap compared to gas, it won't cost much to keep charging those cars. Elon Musk & his brother used to be bankers. So he is not just a genius inventor, creator & product designer, he is also a genius at making money.

So after being stranded for 20 minutes without a bathroom, a fizzy soda or some lottery scratchers --- you're gonna stop at a REAL gas station to fill your tires and water your windshield wipers and take a leak? They are only free because you're paying for them when you buy this PARTICULAR car whether you can use them or not. They are benny for the folks who live NEAR THEM, paid for by the vast majority of folks that don't.. That would be redistribution of wealth and costs, wouldn't it? Smart? Yeah... but a bit devious don'tchathink?

He could convince restaurants & stores to let him build these in their parking lot to increase their business.

 

[flacaltenn]

A typical gas station cost $5 million to build. Tesla stations don't require cash registers, employees, water, sewer, gas, EPA regs, underground tanks, leak detection, spill containment, vapor recovery, etc. He can build 20 Tesla charging stations for the price of 1 gas station. All that savings can go into charging the cars he sold for free creating more sales & advertising. He got a lot of money up front from the sale of those cars that he can use to make money with. Electricity is dirt cheap compared to gas, it won't cost much to keep charging those cars. Elon Musk & his brother used to be bankers. So he is not just a genius inventor, creator & product designer, he is also a genius at making money.

So after being stranded for 20 minutes without a bathroom, a fizzy soda or some lottery scratchers --- you're gonna stop at a REAL gas station to fill your tires and water your windshield wipers and take a leak? They are only free because you're paying for them when you buy this PARTICULAR car whether you can use them or not. They are benny for the folks who live NEAR THEM, paid for by the vast majority of folks that don't.. That would be redistribution of wealth and costs, wouldn't it? Smart? Yeah... but a bit devious don'tchathink?

He could convince restaurants & stores to let him build these in their parking lot to increase their business.

Sure.. Folks with an $80,000 status toy LOVE to dine at Denny's or Jack in the Box..

 

[KissMy]

So after being stranded for 20 minutes without a bathroom, a fizzy soda or some lottery scratchers --- you're gonna stop at a REAL gas station to fill your tires and water your windshield wipers and take a leak? They are only free because you're paying for them when you buy this PARTICULAR car whether you can use them or not. They are benny for the folks who live NEAR THEM, paid for by the vast majority of folks that don't.. That would be redistribution of wealth and costs, wouldn't it? Smart? Yeah... but a bit devious don'tchathink?

He could convince restaurants & stores to let him build these in their parking lot to increase their business.

Sure.. Folks with an $80,000 status toy LOVE to dine at Denny's or Jack in the Box..

There are a lot of restaurants like "Cracker Barrel" who cater to that crowd.

Those gas station services you shill for of are not paid for by the gasoline that is used as a loss leader to get customers into their store. They are paid for by the fizzy drinks & crap they sell you once you are drawn in by the 3 foot gas price font on the sign out front. Those stations are not getting taken advantage of or redistributing wealth to Tesla owners.

 

[flacaltenn]

Well OK then... Cracker Barrel it is.. Bring on the collard greens and dumplins...

Putting those stations where his customers ARE would be important to maximizing the number of customers who don't feel crappy when they understand they are paying for someone else's fueling. But it in no ways guarantees happy continuous travel coast to coast if he DOES.. Check out a travel map and see if you can accomplish both of these goals..

IN FACT --- the only way for Tesla owners to avoid 4 to 10 hours of charging time is to use one of these Tesla proprietary chargers. If they use the rest of the EV charger PUBLIC infrastructure, they have soooo much capacity in the car that they could keep it anywhere near full except at home..

Don't live near a Tesla charger? Tough nuts chump.

 

[longknife]

What a massive pile of male bovine excrement!!!

Who pays for the electricity? It simply doesn't come free, regardless of the source. SOMEONE is paying for it.

 

[Old Rocks]

What a massive pile of male bovine excrement!!!

Who pays for the electricity? It simply doesn't come free, regardless of the source. SOMEONE is paying for it.

Man, this is unbelievable.

Elon Musk has just made a profit with Space X, Tesla Motors, and Solar City. The man is an entreprenuer in the mold of Gates and Job. And all you people can do is scream about how it's all a sham, and cannot work.

Not only is it going to work, Musk is going to revolutionize the auto industry. And people like yourselves are going to be mourning for buggy whips once again.

 

[ScienceRocks]

What a massive pile of male bovine excrement!!!

Who pays for the electricity? It simply doesn't come free, regardless of the source. SOMEONE is paying for it.

Man, this is unbelievable.

Elon Musk has just made a profit with Space X, Tesla Motors, and Solar City. The man is an entreprenuer in the mold of Gates and Job. And all you people can do is scream about how it's all a sham, and cannot work.

Not only is it going to work, Musk is going to revolutionize the auto industry. And people like yourselves are going to be mourning for buggy whips once again.

I don't know where a lot of these people stand. They attack people that want to advance our technology and explore innovation hard. People that created the steal, train, oil, computer right down to google you guess it they attack.

One second they're fighting for smaller government, but the next they're attacking Musk. Oh shit.

 

[flacaltenn]

What a massive pile of male bovine excrement!!!

Who pays for the electricity? It simply doesn't come free, regardless of the source. SOMEONE is paying for it.

Man, this is unbelievable.

Elon Musk has just made a profit with Space X, Tesla Motors, and Solar City. The man is an entreprenuer in the mold of Gates and Job. And all you people can do is scream about how it's all a sham, and cannot work.

Not only is it going to work, Musk is going to revolutionize the auto industry. And people like yourselves are going to be mourning for buggy whips once again.

I don't know where a lot of these people stand. They attack people that want to advance our technology and explore innovation hard. People that created the steal, train, oil, computer right down to google you guess it they attack.

One second they're fighting for smaller government, but the next they're attacking Musk. Oh shit.

Where I stand on Musk has NOTHING to do with my politics. It has EVERYTHING to do with the morals of engineering and innovation and Capitalism. The professional org I belong to has a pledge that includes my responsibility to never misrepresent or mislead the public about technology or social issues that involve technology. And when the idiot babblers in the press barf out a company press release verbatim without any technical checking, folks like Musk can get away with lots of misrepresentation.

"Like traveling coast to coast for free" when what really determines where his stations go is the density of his clients -- NOT the convienience of the geography. He is NOT gonna put these expensive station (accessible by ONLY S drivers) in the most convienent places for a long road trip.

Have you drooling Musk suck-ups looked at a map of their initial charging stations?

How many on I-40 or I-10 in West Texas are there gonna be? Can I only do this on I-80? What about North Dakota? What is the REALITY of this hyped promise. IF you own a Model S and you pick the correct route -- then you get there. But if you live in Wyoming --- you're on your own bud. What does this hype really promise?

Same with the horseshit public press about being "solar - powered" that I referenced above. I am a whore for Capitalism -- but I'm a principled whore.. And I want to preserve it by SELF-REGULATION of the markets. And that's exactly what I'm doing here...

 

[Politico]

Why are you arguing with someone who doesn't believe in the technology enough to own one?

 

[Old Rocks]

Man, this is unbelievable.

Elon Musk has just made a profit with Space X, Tesla Motors, and Solar City. The man is an entreprenuer in the mold of Gates and Job. And all you people can do is scream about how it's all a sham, and cannot work.

Not only is it going to work, Musk is going to revolutionize the auto industry. And people like yourselves are going to be mourning for buggy whips once again.

I don't know where a lot of these people stand. They attack people that want to advance our technology and explore innovation hard. People that created the steal, train, oil, computer right down to google you guess it they attack.

One second they're fighting for smaller government, but the next they're attacking Musk. Oh shit.

Where I stand on Musk has NOTHING to do with my politics. It has EVERYTHING to do with the morals of engineering and innovation and Capitalism. The professional org I belong to has a pledge that includes my responsibility to never misrepresent or mislead the public about technology or social issues that involve technology. And when the idiot babblers in the press barf out a company press release verbatim without any technical checking, folks like Musk can get away with lots of misrepresentation.

"Like traveling coast to coast for free" when what really determines where his stations go is the density of his clients -- NOT the convienience of the geography. He is NOT gonna put these expensive station (accessible by ONLY S drivers) in the most convienent places for a long road trip.

Have you drooling Musk suck-ups looked at a map of their initial charging stations?

How many on I-40 or I-10 in West Texas are there gonna be? Can I only do this on I-80? What about North Dakota? What is the REALITY of this hyped promise. IF you own a Model S and you pick the correct route -- then you get there. But if you live in Wyoming --- you're on your own bud. What does this hype really promise?

Same with the horseshit public press about being "solar - powered" that I referenced above. I am a whore for Capitalism -- but I'm a principled whore.. And I want to preserve it by SELF-REGULATION of the markets. And that's exactly what I'm doing here...

How many gasoline stations were there in 1904? 1910?

By 2020, there will be more than enough stations to go coast to coast, or anywhere else, for that matter. And when the other EV manufactures are facing competition from the other vehicles that Musk will be building, they will pay the price and convert their vehicles to his charging system. The people that buy the Tesla cars early on, will get free fuel for the lifetime of their vehicle. Everybody else will pay. Pay less that a quarter what the gasoline would cost for equivelant miles, and the value of Musk's refueling stations will skyrocket. Restuarant, from McD's to high end will be begging for a charging station on their property or next to their property.

Pretty damned clear where the future is. And pretty damned clear as to who is resisting that future simply because is does represent change.

 

[Old Rocks]

Interesting patter of red dots. Soon to be a series of them from San Diego to Bellingham. And all over the Northeast. And, as usual, the red states will still be using mules long after the rest of us have tractors.