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Not going to work, an interesting dichotomy.

danielpalos

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Does anyone really believe we would be worse off with equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States? Labor should be able to go to school and learn new technologies in order to command the market based wage they want.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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You really shouldn't opine on stuff you know nothing about. Jobs have values as established by the minimum wages the company can get away with paying.

You haven't worked in 10 years, and when you were working, you were working for a small privately owned company. It doesn't work that way any more. My neighbour asked his boss for a raise, on the grounds that he had more equipment qualifications than any of the other guys, was always early, and on the job at 8:00 sharp while his co-workers were arriving hung over and changing into work clothes at 8:00. His boss said that head office gives him a budget of $X for the job, and no you can't have a raise.

Three months ago, they fired him because they can hire someone else and pay them $5/hr less. He found another job, but it pays $3/hr less than he was making before. That's how it works today.

Actually it's always worked that way. And no, I haven't been not working for 10 years. It hasn't been two yet.

So what is a worker worth? It's a question that many believe is complicated and subject to opinion. But the truth of the matter is you are only worth as much as your employer can pay somebody else to do the exact came job and quality of work that you provided. Your friend is a perfect example. He felt he was worth more money. He wasn't by evidence his employer found somebody cheaper to do the same job. In reality your neighbor was being overpaid. Even his new job paid less than he was making. He was fortunate to have that job, but got greedy.

In the 80's I went to electronics school. I was working full time 6 (and sometimes 7) days a week and not getting any rest burned me out real quick. Electronics is hard. It's all math and very complicated. So I asked my teacher what kind of money I could make if I graduated with an FCC license (1 year of school) and he told me 16K. Not happy with the answer, I asked what if I stayed and got my associates degree (two years)? He told me 18 grand a year, if I could find a job. So I quit the school.

Like I said, electronics is hard. So why such low pay? Because at the time everybody and their mother wanted to get into electronics. Labor and wage is supply and demand no matter how difficult or how much time and money you put into a career.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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Silly Con Valley is Exhibit A. Right wingers are fine with employers organizing to eliminate competition in wages and bennies, but then snivel and wet themselves when labor does the same thing. This is why I never take ideologues seriously. Same with illegal immigration; they love illegals as long as the Democrats don't ferry them to the polls.

Who fed you that line of bullshit? We don't like illegals in any capacity. They reduce wages for Americans and take jobs our own people would otherwise do.
 

DudleySmith

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Who fed you that line of bullshit? We don't like illegals in any capacity. They reduce wages for Americans and take jobs our own people would otherwise do.

I've seen them hiring wetbacks my entire life, and no, it isn't 'bullshit'. I've seen it get worse and worse over my lifetime, with even skilled workers being shut of their trades by wetbacks, same with warehouse jobs and others teens would normally do.
 

Papageorgio

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You really shouldn't opine on stuff you know nothing about. Jobs have values as established by the minimum wages the company can get away with paying.

You haven't worked in 10 years, and when you were working, you were working for a small privately owned company. It doesn't work that way any more. My neighbour asked his boss for a raise, on the grounds that he had more equipment qualifications than any of the other guys, was always early, and on the job at 8:00 sharp while his co-workers were arriving hung over and changing into work clothes at 8:00. His boss said that head office gives him a budget of $X for the job, and no you can't have a raise.

Three months ago, they fired him because they can hire someone else and pay them $5/hr less. He found another job, but it pays $3/hr less than he was making before. That's how it works today.
I had a job with a major company, worked it for six months and will never work for a large company again. I work for an under 100 people employee, I never ask for a raise, I get one every year, except last). I get in a half hour early everyday and work 50-70 hours a week because I like to.
 

JohnDB

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I've seen them hiring wetbacks my entire life, and no, it isn't 'bullshit'. I've seen it get worse and worse over my lifetime, with even skilled workers being shut of their trades by wetbacks, same with warehouse jobs and others teens would normally do.
See, you hire illegals and barely legals to do the framing but then hire high dollar finish carpenters to cover up the lousy job done.
AKA lipstick on a pig.

Just don't expect me to kiss it.

And electronics?
Okay...so much math needed that these guys couldn't figure out how the industry was going to move forward and change.

It was the easiest of equations too.
CNC machine to do the work and on screen design to load into the gizmo making it happen for pennies per board.
BUT
They still call an electrician to figure out which board needs to be replaced when the magic smoke escaped out of the gizmo.
 

JohnDB

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And then there's the contract brokering...

Construction contracts are awarded based on bids...
Then the contractor who won the bid then sells the contract to a firm that hires nothing but barely legals and full out illegal labor by paying these guys under the table...which then goes "bankrupt" and the sub-sub contractor is gone....but amazingly enough his cousin opens a new contracting company and begins again with the exact same crew as the last job....wink wink and nod nod and the cycle starts again and again.
 

Dragonlady

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Actually we are providing that to our people, just not by government demand. The Democrats in their attempt to create more government dependents gave us a labor shortage that is forcing industry to overpay workers. The result is the worst inflation this country has seen in 30 years.

We are not Canada and we are not any country in Europe. We are the United States of America, and there is only one of us in the world. We don't do things like other countries which is why everybody is trying to sneak into our country. Sounds to me you and your people are nearly totally dependent on government. The greatest fear our founders had was people dependent on a federal government because then it becomes more powerful than the people, and gives them more control over their citizenry. Our founders didn't want the government controlling the level of freedom we had.

As far as rights go, those are written in our US Constitution. The rights between worker and employer is they offer you a job for X money, and you either accept the job or you don't. That's the only rights you have.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

Quoting a man who lived 300 years ago, before there was such a thing a "super power" or "world trade" or even "industrialization", or worldwide pandemics, about the ways of the world or the role of government therein, simply reveals the depth of your ignorance. You keep trying to apply 18th Century ideas to 21st Century problems, and making things worse.

No you aren't Europe or Canada. We're all in much better shape than you are, and our nation's aren't in the middle of a fascist coup.

You are falling behind all of the rest of the first world, and into second tier status because workers are being systemically cut out of the economy. They've seen no improvement in their lives as the investor class has reaped 80% of the wealth of the nation for themselves.

You're the only first world country where life expectancy has been declining for more than 5 years.

You have supply shortages because of your dependence on imports for basic necessities, and cheap goods. Food prices are higher because no illegals came to pick or process your crops last year or this year. You have eliminated local manufacturing in favour of exporting higher priced "services", leaving low skilled workers without retraining, or any hope of a decent job in future without it.

You don't want government to provide assistance to working people because if you give working people money, they won't work, but if you give billionaires money, they'll work harder. This is the garbage Republicans keep telling you and you believe them.

You were a week away from food riots in January, due your failure to give money to working Americans during the pandemic. Tens of thousands of people lined up across the country for handouts. Now you have no gasoline, no supplies, and you can't unload goods fast enough onto your docks and transportation systems. All of your "for profit" systems are failing you - from the power grid to your roads and bridges.

You're sinking into second world status, just like South America and the other market capitalism havens you established in the 1970's with the Chicago School of Economics as their economic North Star. Milton Friedman's toxic theories have brought death, debt, and economic collapse in every jurisdiction where they're been tried, including yours.

Those of us who stuck with Keynesian Economic policies are thriving, while the free market havens like Brazil and Chile are great if you're rich, and pretty crappy if you're not. Just like the USA.


If that were true, why does anyone in Canada, Norway, or the other European countries work? We could sit on our asses at home, but we don't. In fact, 80% of the people you're giving government income supports to, are working at least one full-time job, while the corporations who employ them pay no income tax, and book record profits.

The bald fact is that when people have the tools to help them succeed, they will use those tools to build a sound
 

Blues Man

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Only because Talk is so inexpensive for the right-wing. Why do we have alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror if we should be taking care of ourselves?
Why are you asking me that?

I've been a long time advocate for the legalization of all drugs.
I was never in favor of the so called war on terror

Like I said you are incapable of understanding anything that is not starkly black and white
 

Ray From Cleveland

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Quoting a man who lived 300 years ago, before there was such a thing a "super power" or "world trade" or even "industrialization", or worldwide pandemics, about the ways of the world or the role of government therein, simply reveals the depth of your ignorance. You keep trying to apply 18th Century ideas to 21st Century problems, and making things worse.

No you aren't Europe or Canada. We're all in much better shape than you are, and our nation's aren't in the middle of a fascist coup.

You are falling behind all of the rest of the first world, and into second tier status because workers are being systemically cut out of the economy. They've seen no improvement in their lives as the investor class has reaped 80% of the wealth of the nation for themselves.

You're the only first world country where life expectancy has been declining for more than 5 years.

You have supply shortages because of your dependence on imports for basic necessities, and cheap goods. Food prices are higher because no illegals came to pick or process your crops last year or this year. You have eliminated local manufacturing in favour of exporting higher priced "services", leaving low skilled workers without retraining, or any hope of a decent job in future without it.

You don't want government to provide assistance to working people because if you give working people money, they won't work, but if you give billionaires money, they'll work harder. This is the garbage Republicans keep telling you and you believe them.

You were a week away from food riots in January, due your failure to give money to working Americans during the pandemic. Tens of thousands of people lined up across the country for handouts. Now you have no gasoline, no supplies, and you can't unload goods fast enough onto your docks and transportation systems. All of your "for profit" systems are failing you - from the power grid to your roads and bridges.

You're sinking into second world status, just like South America and the other market capitalism havens you established in the 1970's with the Chicago School of Economics as their economic North Star. Milton Friedman's toxic theories have brought death, debt, and economic collapse in every jurisdiction where they're been tried, including yours.

Those of us who stuck with Keynesian Economic policies are thriving, while the free market havens like Brazil and Chile are great if you're rich, and pretty crappy if you're not. Just like the USA.


If that were true, why does anyone in Canada, Norway, or the other European countries work? We could sit on our asses at home, but we don't. In fact, 80% of the people you're giving government income supports to, are working at least one full-time job, while the corporations who employ them pay no income tax, and book record profits.

The bald fact is that when people have the tools to help them succeed, they will use those tools to build a sound

Our country is approaching 30 trillion in debt, and the reason we are is we didn't listen to that man who lived 300 years ago. A brilliant human being who could see the problems with a bad system of government even hundreds of years in the future.

Our country is screwed right now because we are under total Communist leadership. Our ships can't get unloaded because the unions won't let their workers work over 8 hours or weekends. Trucks can't haul the containers out of the yard because the communists in state government created a law that no independent drivers can haul freight out of California because they are not union drivers. You can't take a truck into the state that has an engine 10 years old or more to kiss the asses of environmental kooks. Brilliant, huh?

Our supply shortage is caused by the communists passing a bill to pay people more to not work than work. In fact they paid them so much that even though the government goodies stopped, they saved enough to stretch it out a few months longer. Our food prices increased like everything else in this country thanks to Democrat policy. It has nothing to do with illegals.

All our problems in this country are caused by Democrats. Under Trump we were doing fantastic until Joe's buddies sent us their virus. We have a labor shortage because of Democrat polices, highest inflation because of Democrat policies, a huge border problem which led to a drug problem because of Democrat policies, violent crime up 30% in communist cities because of Democrat policies. All our problems are because of Democrat policies. if people here ever get smart enough to never give them leadership again, we will be the place everybody admires and wants to be, even more so than today.
 

DudleySmith

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Quoting a man who lived 300 years ago, before there was such a thing a "super power" or "world trade" or even "industrialization", or worldwide pandemics, about the ways of the world or the role of government therein, simply reveals the depth of your ignorance. You keep trying to apply 18th Century ideas to 21st Century problems, and making things worse.

No you aren't Europe or Canada. We're all in much better shape than you are, and our nation's aren't in the middle of a fascist coup.

You are falling behind all of the rest of the first world, and into second tier status because workers are being systemically cut out of the economy. They've seen no improvement in their lives as the investor class has reaped 80% of the wealth of the nation for themselves.

You're the only first world country where life expectancy has been declining for more than 5 years.

You have supply shortages because of your dependence on imports for basic necessities, and cheap goods. Food prices are higher because no illegals came to pick or process your crops last year or this year. You have eliminated local manufacturing in favour of exporting higher priced "services", leaving low skilled workers without retraining, or any hope of a decent job in future without it.

You don't want government to provide assistance to working people because if you give working people money, they won't work, but if you give billionaires money, they'll work harder. This is the garbage Republicans keep telling you and you believe them.

You were a week away from food riots in January, due your failure to give money to working Americans during the pandemic. Tens of thousands of people lined up across the country for handouts. Now you have no gasoline, no supplies, and you can't unload goods fast enough onto your docks and transportation systems. All of your "for profit" systems are failing you - from the power grid to your roads and bridges.

You're sinking into second world status, just like South America and the other market capitalism havens you established in the 1970's with the Chicago School of Economics as their economic North Star. Milton Friedman's toxic theories have brought death, debt, and economic collapse in every jurisdiction where they're been tried, including yours.

Those of us who stuck with Keynesian Economic policies are thriving, while the free market havens like Brazil and Chile are great if you're rich, and pretty crappy if you're not. Just like the USA.


If that were true, why does anyone in Canada, Norway, or the other European countries work? We could sit on our asses at home, but we don't. In fact, 80% of the people you're giving government income supports to, are working at least one full-time job, while the corporations who employ them pay no income tax, and book record profits.

The bald fact is that when people have the tools to help them succeed, they will use those tools to build a sound

We're achieving what the Soviets did under Stalin, only it is giant monopolies and multi-nationals who have consolidated their power. As I've said before, whether it's corporate bureaucracies or Communist ones they are distinctions without a difference for the unwashed masses.
 

Lastamender

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