No Trump didn't commit treason or espionage

[Rogue AI]

WTF?
You're a moron.
It's up to the president or his administration to submit them to the archivist.
Because, another republican traitor did the same thing.

For the first two centuries of U.S. history, outgoing presidents simply took their documents with them when they left the White House. The materials were considered their personal property.

But for the past four decades, every presidential document — from notebook doodles to top-secret security plans — is supposed to go directly to the National Archives as the material is considered the property of the American people.

So when former President Donald Trump left office on Jan. 20, 2021, all his records should have traveled from the White House to the National Archives, according to Jason R. Baron, who served as director of litigation at the National Archives for 13 years.

"No president has the right to retain presidential records after he or she leaves office," Baron said. "And so it is an extraordinary circumstance if presidential records are found in a former president's residence or anywhere else under his control."

When President Nixon resigned amid the 1974 scandal, he wanted to take his documents to his home in California — including his infamous tape recordings.

Congress realized it would not have access to that material, and they also feared it could be destroyed. So legislators passed the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act, which made all of Nixon's material public property.

However, that measure applied to Nixon only. In 1978, Congress passed the more sweeping Presidential Records Act that has been the standard ever since.

"Every president, when they leave office, those records that have been created by the president and his staff are presidential records that go to the National Archives," Baron said. "The owner is the American people."

This includes all presidential material, whether it's routine, unclassified notes or top-secret national security documents.

You fail to mention the process, timeliness, and method of delivery. Instead you quote some bureaucrat. Get a clue. Clearly it is an unconstitutional law, as it put the President in the power of unelected bureaucrats.

 

[forkup]

You fail to mention the process, timeliness, and method of delivery. Instead you quote some bureaucrat. Get a clue. Clearly it is an unconstitutional law, as it put the President in the power of unelected bureaucrats.

He quoted 44 U.S.C. Chapter 22. A FEDERAL LAW. As voted by congress and signed by a president.

Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) | National Archives

www.archives.gov

 

[Smokin' OP]

You fail to mention the process, timeliness, and method of delivery. Instead you quote some bureaucrat. Get a clue. Clearly it is an unconstitutional law, as it put the President in the power of unelected bureaucrats.

WTF?
The person clearly states that.

A 50 year-old law is unconstitutional?
Why didn't Trump "fix" it"?

 

[SavannahMann]

No, Trump didn't commit actionable treason or espionage

The headlines are damning: Trump had national security documents or classified documents or nuclear secret documents in his possession, a clear criminal violation. One former CIA head even put out a tweet effectively saying that Trump shou...

americanthinker.com

The president of the United States has plenary power over national security issues, including document classification. That means that, under the Constitution, as to national security, the president has complete and unlimited power. He is the king of the national security world, and no one can gainsay him, whether the bureaucrats who work for him, Congress, or the Supreme Court.

Democrats, however, are pushing back against this reality. The best example I've found comes from Graeme Wood, an African-American studies and philosophy major, who authored the above-mentioned Atlantic article (which is currently The Atlantic's "most popular" article).

Wood reluctantly concedes some of the president's unlimited power. He quotes J. William Leonard, former head of the Information Security Oversight Office, who said that "the rules and procedures governing the classification and declassification of information apply to everyone else [other than the president]." Wood continues, saying, "[The president] would not have had to file paperwork — just 'utter the magic words,' Leonard told me." In other words, Wood acknowledges that Trump, while president, by packing up and taking documents with him, automatically declassified them.

I wonder if this will get moved to conspiracy by Jannies even though it's TRUTH

There actually is more to it than uttering the magic words.

The Government can restrict access to Top Secret, Secret, and Classified documents. But if President Trump declassified them then they were available for the public to access.

The documents were not released to the public. So either the Trump administration violated the norms and practices and probably the law regarding releasing the documents to the public. Or the documents were never declassified.

Also. The practice is to stamp the document declassified and date it. So that people know there is no reason to waste time and money securing it. And so they know they can release it to the public.

Now that said. I told the wife when this broke. There is no way in hell they get a conviction on any of the charges he is facing. Including in Georgia. One of the Jurors will hang the jury. There is no way you get 12 people together at random and one of them not be a Trump Fanboy.

You also won’t get a Not Guilty verdict. Same reason on the other side.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

I believe that. Since you don't have an actual decent justification for Trump's actions whataboutism is probably the best you've got.

By establishing that Hilary did the same thing would be a nice start. There was a period this site consisted almost exclusively of posts featuring Hilary's emails.

Hypocrisy is irrelevant as a justification for Trump's actions, that's why it's a fallacy.

I have. In the case of Hillary, you have the Secretary of State having an unsecured e-mail address. This is not against State Department regulations or federal law providing they are turned into the national archives within 20 days. The only thing you can lay at her feet is that some were wiped, although an explanation was provided that rings true to me but won't to you but will, either way, be hard to prove a lie.

Trump on the other hand TOOK documents from the White House and didn't turn them into the national archives even when subpoenaed, some of which are classified above Top Secret. This is against federal law.

No, I don't. My post 137 directly links you to my contemporary position on Clinton's e-mails. I fully supported a full and proper investigation into it, even to the point that I was perfectly willing to accept REOPENING that investigation a few weeks before the general election. I care about one thing only. The law. If someone could have proven Hillary was guilty of a crime I would have supported that verdict. On the other hand, the fact that nobody did even after 4 years of Trump should tell you something.

There are laws that protect from some very specific reasons for unequal treatment. General hypocrisy is not one of them

No, it isn't. If I have 2 employees who are late all the time. One I fire, and one I don't, I don't all of a sudden lose my good reason for firing that one person. He doesn't all of a sudden become a model employee.

Now its just like sitting at the kiddie table...look at that mess, and all because you couldn't refute a synonym, that thing reads like a set of old stereo instructions, its embarrassing to even mock never mind be a part of.

 

[forkup]

Now its just like sitting at the kiddie table...look at that mess, and all because you couldn't refute a synonym, that thing reads like a set of old stereo instructions, its embarrassing to even mock never mind be a part of.

Ah, reading comprehension problems? I understand since you need a kiddie table.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Ah, reading comprehension problems?

I'm gonna have to cop to this one...guilty as charged

I understand since you need a kiddie table.

as I said, too embarrassing to even mock

 

[dudmuck]

EXCLUSIVE: National Archives and Media Caught in Another Lie - Evidence Shows Obama Did Have Classified Docs in the 33 Million Pages He Took with Him When He Left Office | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

The establishment media is now insisting that Barack Hussein Obama did not keep classified documents and take them with him after he left the White House. The Gateway Pundit can now confirm that this is a blatant lie. There were documents Obama had in his possession when he left the White House...

thegatewaypundit.com

Keep parroting the MSM buddy they haven't lied yet...sure LOL

Susan Rice records that intelligence committee wants are locked in Obama archive

House intelligence committee sources say career officials at the National Security Council are slow-walking the delivery of subpoenaed records on former National Security Adviser Susan E. Rice's...

apnews.com

this is what actually happened. That susan rice document is secured. National archive is handling documents that eventually someday to be publicly available. They arent just sitting at Obama's home. Thats the difference. Also the gateway pundit is probably the worst source of info that exists anywhere.

 

[Esdraelon]

The president has broad declassification powers, but only when procedures were followed, and that procedure keeps a record.

Cite the STATUTE that verifies this statement of yours. It doesn't exist because up until that trail was needed to go after the bad orange man, no one questioned the right of the POTUS to declassify as he chose. SCREW YOU PEOPLE.

 

[dudmuck]

Cite the STATUTE that verifies this statement of yours. It doesn't exist because up until that trail was needed to go after the bad orange man, no one questioned the right of the POTUS to declassify as he chose. SCREW YOU PEOPLE.

Yes, the president can declassify documents, but there isn’t a set protocol they have to follow

Former President Trump claimed documents found at Mar-a-Lago were “all declassified.” We explain why sitting presidents can declassify documents and how it works.

www.verifythis.com

This is explained by Kel McClanahan, the executive director of the National Security Counselors.

Though there aren’t specific protocols that the president must follow to declassify a document, federal courts have ruled that they will “refuse to recognize what they consider to be an inference of declassification”

Some documents are considered restricted data, and cannot be distributed even if declassified.

There was also a federal court ruling in 2020 that says declassification procedures must be followed.

None of the laws cited in the mar-a-lago search warrant pertain the classification status. Laws are broken by removing documents from government facilities.

 

[The Duke]

And if even if any of that were the case… Biden calling them classified at ANY point after Jan 20 2021 means that they are then classified and Trump is in trouble

Things like this are why you're stupid.

It just cannot work that way. Things do not get re-classified to go after political opponents.

 

[Lesh]

Things like this are why you're stupid.

It just cannot work that way. Things do not get re-classified to go after political opponents.

But wait..I thought a President could classify anything or declassify anything at his whim...

Consistency is not your strong suit

 

[The Duke]

But wait..I thought a President could classify anything or declassify anything at his whim...

Consistency is not your strong suit

It appears logic and reality is not yours.