No Peace With Palestinians

Well my stupidity would be one. It's common sense that You don't let guys with ammunition and explosives go anywhere near Your family.
If one has no control over, he can make sure to send his family to a safer place.

If one get's to a position where a foreign army already classified his residence as a military installation, then he really took his time or was quiet ignorant of the situation.
However it takes more than a day to build a storage or a tunnel underneath a house.
The people in Gaza were born there or are refugees from the creation of Israel. They have a right to live in peace in their homeland and not have to arrange kinder-transport to countries that will accept them.

The Israelis can classify a UN school full of children as a military target and then it's Bombs Away!

Listening to You, it's like there's no long tradition of Hamas using UN buildings.

Mixing melodrama with disinformation won't give You the fuller picture.

Need evidence? There's plenty
You are repeating Israeli lies about schools, hospitals, civilian neighborhoods, and even children playing football as legitimate military targets in your attempt to put abroad the notion that Palestinians who were born in Palestine or are the refugees from the creation of Israel have no right to live there and how proper it would be if they all disappeared. No doubt the Israelis could arrange for the transportation.

Problem is no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their native homelands.
No Arab countries are preventing Palestinian refugees from returning to their homes in Israel, the land of their birth.

I'm guessing that you're similarly weepy-eyed and gushing with righteousness indignation over the Jews and Christians purged from their homes and places of birth in Islamist majority nations across the Islamist Middle East.
 
And before Zionism the Palestinian Jews have been called the instigators too, Sefad and Tibereas destroyed, thousands expelled and murdered in Hebron and Jerusalem.
We know how this works...

Now in the 2000' You say a love summer of suicide bombers and rocket showers are 'pathetic attempts'- nothing has changed.

It's essential for a state and the variety of ethnicities in it to have the ability to inflict such consequences on their enemies.
We all know the consequences inflicted on European Jews by the Third Reich. This language is familiar.

Exactly, when they were saying Jews are aliens and persecuted them on that basis in Europe and elsewhere, they were also persecuted in Palestine at the same time.

Now that the Jews are in Israel- the language and tactics are still the same, although towards a state but still a minority in the ME.

The song never changed for centuries, and still Jews are being killed and cleansed in Palestine and the ME.
No, not so many Jews are being killed in the Middle East. Palestinians, now there is a people subject to periodic massacre and under occupation.

In the recent 150 history alone, how many Jews were expelled and massacred allover the ME and Palestine?

'Not so many' You say...maybe not enough for You
You are very close to having me cease reading and replying to your posts. I am beginning to feel what it is like trying to argue with a Zionist. I am getting nowhere and getting accused of wanting Jews murdered.

Be honored, MJB, is he puts you on his Igore list. You will joih many worthy posters if he does. Meanwhile if he feels he is arguing wih a Zionist, many of the other posters feel they are arguing with someone who feels his family home was taken away from him by those terrible Zionists.
 
Blockading Gaza and periodically massacring defenseless children and families there is an instigation of violence that is off the scale.

The Palestinian people do not have the military means to resist the violent occupation of their homeland.

Apart from primitive harmless fireworks from Gaza or token attacks by individuals, the Palestinian people are defenseless.

Um. You do realize that both the blockade of Gaza and the military action by Israel is a response to attacks on innocent Israeli civilians, yes? Of course you do, you've said so right there, though you do minimize them to "primitive harmless fireworks" in a sad attempt to pretend that those rockets can't and haven't killed people.

Let's get our cause and effect straight, shall we? The CAUSE of the conflict in Gaza is the violent, hostile actions of the Gazans. The instigating act is the violent, hostile actions of the Gazans. No more rockets, no more response. No more tunnels, no more response. No more rockets, no more blockade (after one year). No more tunnels, no more blockade. Simple, really. But it seems to be too difficult a concept for you, Team Palestine and the Gazans to understand.

Now, next you are going to say that the Gazans have the right to resist. You'll use all sorts of emotionally charged language, but that will be the meat of your next argument. Here's the deal. What are the Gazans resisting?

1. The blockade. But the blockade exists because of the continued violence and the importation of weapons to commit violence. Removing the blockade before the violence ends only subjects Israel and her innocent civilians to potentially quite a bit more harm. (You DO believe that Israel not only has a right, but also an obligation to protect her citizens, don't you?) The continued violence by Gazans against Israel actually keeps the blockade in place and prolongs it.

2. Self-determination and self-government. Gaza has a government and is self-governed. Their ability to utilize their self-determination is evident in their ability to smuggle rockets and build tunnels (instead of houses and hospitals and clean water facilities for their people).

3. The right to travel through Israel to the West Bank without crossing a border or checkpoint. No country in the world has this right. If you want to travel by road from mainland US to Alaska -- you have to go through Canada. Canada's border guards and patrols have every right to enforce both their own entry regulations and Canada's laws while you are in our country.

4. A dispute over territorial borders. The borders between Gaza and Israel are clear. There is no dispute about them, like there is between Israel, Area C and Areas A and B.

5. Having to live with a hostile population. There are no Jews in Gaza. And virtually no Christians remaining. it is virtually an entirely homogeneous population.


So, what exactly, are the Gazans "resisting"?
 
Apart from primitive harmless fireworks from Gaza or token attacks by individuals, the Palestinian people are defenseless.

This does, however, bring up an interesting point.

Why, do you think that, "harmless fireworks" and/or random "token" attacks by individuals would be harmful to a society? What would you suggest as an alternative to the way Israel currently responds to these attacks?
 
These are basic instincts.

When an army official bangs on Your door telling You he's building something underneath Your house where Your wife, children and parents live You'd have no objections?
When the Israelis drop a bomb on your block of apartments and you have to get your family out including grandad in his wheelchair and toddlers before the next big bomb. You'd have no objections?

Well my stupidity would be one. It's common sense that You don't let guys with ammunition and explosives go anywhere near Your family.
If one has no control over, he can make sure to send his family to a safer place.

If one get's to a position where a foreign army already classified his residence as a military installation, then he really took his time or was quiet ignorant of the situation.
However it takes more than a day to build a storage or a tunnel underneath a house.
The people in Gaza were born there or are refugees from the creation of Israel. They have a right to live in peace in their homeland and not have to arrange kinder-transport to countries that will accept them.

The Israelis can classify a UN school full of children as a military target and then it's Bombs Away!

Listening to You, it's like there's no long tradition of Hamas using UN buildings.

Mixing melodrama with disinformation won't give You the fuller picture.

Need evidence? There's plenty
You are repeating Israeli lies about schools, hospitals, civilian neighborhoods, and even children playing football as legitimate military targets in your attempt to put abroad the notion that Palestinians who were born in Palestine or are the refugees from the creation of Israel have no right to live there and how proper it would be if they all disappeared. No doubt the Israelis could arrange for the transportation.

Indeed UN schools, hospitals and living areas are being used by Hamas every time. This is conformed by the UN and UNRWA themselves:

Statement attributable to the Spokesman for the Secretary-General on weapons at UNRWA school in Gaza:

"The Secretary-General is alarmed to hear that rockets were placed in an UNRWA school in Gaza and that subsequently these have gone missing. He expresses his outrage, and regret, at the placing of weapons in a UN-administered school. By doing so, those responsible are turning schools into potential military targets, and endangering the lives of innocent children, UN employees working in such facilities, and anyone using the UN schools as shelter."

UNRWA CONDEMNS PLACEMENT OF ROCKETS, FOR A SECOND TIME, IN ONE OF ITS SCHOOLS:

"Today, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip. As soon as the rockets were discovered, UNRWA staff were withdrawn from the premises, and so we are unable to confirm the precise number of rockets. The school is situated between two other UNRWA schools that currently each accommodate 1,500 internally displaced persons."
news_article_7131_12916_1406057876.jpg

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So no 'Israeli lies' just pure arrogance on Your side, while having no basic knowledge of the matter You're trying to push the same old slogans that were invented by others.

Can You argue anything without ad hominems?
 
"Today, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip.
And Israel uses this as an excuse to bomb occupied schools.

Is the above your endorsement of Islamic terrorists using schools as places from which to wage acts of war?

Are you suggesting that UNRWA schools are to be safe havens for Islamic terrorists to wage acts of war?
 
And before Zionism the Palestinian Jews have been called the instigators too, Sefad and Tibereas destroyed, thousands expelled and murdered in Hebron and Jerusalem.
We know how this works...

Now in the 2000' You say a love summer of suicide bombers and rocket showers are 'pathetic attempts'- nothing has changed.

It's essential for a state and the variety of ethnicities in it to have the ability to inflict such consequences on their enemies.
We all know the consequences inflicted on European Jews by the Third Reich. This language is familiar.

Exactly, when they were saying Jews are aliens and persecuted them on that basis in Europe and elsewhere, they were also persecuted in Palestine at the same time.

Now that the Jews are in Israel- the language and tactics are still the same, although towards a state but still a minority in the ME.

The song never changed for centuries, and still Jews are being killed and cleansed in Palestine and the ME.
No, not so many Jews are being killed in the Middle East. Palestinians, now there is a people subject to periodic massacre and under occupation.

In the recent 150 history alone, how many Jews were expelled and massacred allover the ME and Palestine?

'Not so many' You say...maybe not enough for You
You are very close to having me cease reading and replying to your posts. I am beginning to feel what it is like trying to argue with a Zionist. I am getting nowhere and getting accused of wanting Jews murdered.

Me Zionist?? :lmao:Read my first post.

I think that reading more on the subject, understanding that literature and theology are not of interest to You, I'd suggest the history of Jews and Palestine before 1870. Better in a real library.
It will get You to think more broadly, and in more accurate terms rather than political hotwords.
 
Well my stupidity would be one. It's common sense that You don't let guys with ammunition and explosives go anywhere near Your family.
If one has no control over, he can make sure to send his family to a safer place.

If one get's to a position where a foreign army already classified his residence as a military installation, then he really took his time or was quiet ignorant of the situation.
However it takes more than a day to build a storage or a tunnel underneath a house.
The people in Gaza were born there or are refugees from the creation of Israel. They have a right to live in peace in their homeland and not have to arrange kinder-transport to countries that will accept them.

The Israelis can classify a UN school full of children as a military target and then it's Bombs Away!

Listening to You, it's like there's no long tradition of Hamas using UN buildings.

Mixing melodrama with disinformation won't give You the fuller picture.

Need evidence? There's plenty
You are repeating Israeli lies about schools, hospitals, civilian neighborhoods, and even children playing football as legitimate military targets in your attempt to put abroad the notion that Palestinians who were born in Palestine or are the refugees from the creation of Israel have no right to live there and how proper it would be if they all disappeared. No doubt the Israelis could arrange for the transportation.

Problem is no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their native homelands.
No Arab countries are preventing Palestinian refugees from returning to their homes in Israel, the land of their birth.

Really can the Palestinian Jews return to their homes in Gaza or Hebron?
 
"Today, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip.
And Israel uses this as an excuse to bomb occupied schools.

Israel uses real time intelligence in the field and air to respond to enemy activity and rocket launches from those schools and hospitals.
Evidence of such activity on the Palestinian side is clear and available to all.
UN General and UNRWA confirmation clarifies this even more.




 
Blockading Gaza and periodically massacring defenseless children and families there is an instigation of violence that is off the scale.

The Palestinian people do not have the military means to resist the violent occupation of their homeland.

Apart from primitive harmless fireworks from Gaza or token attacks by individuals, the Palestinian people are defenseless.

Um. You do realize that both the blockade of Gaza and the military action by Israel is a response to attacks on innocent Israeli civilians, yes? Of course you do, you've said so right there, though you do minimize them to "primitive harmless fireworks" in a sad attempt to pretend that those rockets can't and haven't killed people.
Oh! The military response cliché. Heard it before from the Israelis. Didn't believe it for a minute.
Every decade or so the Israelis joke about mowing the lawn which is an astonishingly cruel way of describing disproportionate reactions to a few harmless fire crackers lodged by a handful of rogues. When the Israelis wish to go on the rampage against defenseless children and families, they will typically provoke a token response to an assassination of a Hamas politician, children playing football being shot to death, or some other turning of the screw on Gaza.

Let's get our cause and effect straight, shall we? The CAUSE of the conflict in Gaza is the violent, hostile actions of the Gazans. The instigating act is the violent, hostile actions of the Gazans. No more rockets, no more response. No more tunnels, no more response. No more rockets, no more blockade (after one year). No more tunnels, no more blockade. Simple, really. But it seems to be too difficult a concept for you, Team Palestine and the Gazans to understand.
No, you are wrong to imply that toddlers and families have been involved in any violent actions against the Israeli Defense Force. Decapitating little girls by Israeli rockets and bombs and shooting children playing football or retrieving a schoolbag from near the Israeli fence are crimes against humanity as is the conditions under which the Israelis keep the people of Gaza.

Now, next you are going to say that the Gazans have the right to resist. You'll use all sorts of emotionally charged language, but that will be the meat of your next argument. Here's the deal. What are the Gazans resisting?
The people of Gaza have as much right to resist their oppression by the Israelis as the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto had the right to resist the Nazis, no matter how futile.

1. The blockade. But the blockade exists because of the continued violence and the importation of weapons to commit violence. Removing the blockade before the violence ends only subjects Israel and her innocent civilians to potentially quite a bit more harm. (You DO believe that Israel not only has a right, but also an obligation to protect her citizens, don't you?) The continued violence by Gazans against Israel actually keeps the blockade in place and prolongs it.
The blockade which keeps the people of Gaza barely at subsistence level is collective punishment of the families there by their wealthy Israeli neighbors.

2. Self-determination and self-government. Gaza has a government and is self-governed. Their ability to utilize their self-determination is evident in their ability to smuggle rockets and build tunnels (instead of houses and hospitals and clean water facilities for their people).
The government of Gaza is in a similar position as the Judenräte in the last century, kept impoverished, restrictions on its imports and exports including humanitarian aid, making it impossible to function properly. We are witnessing the destruction of a people before our eyes. How this has been tolerated by the international community defies explanation.

3. The right to travel through Israel to the West Bank without crossing a border or checkpoint. No country in the world has this right. If you want to travel by road from mainland US to Alaska -- you have to go through Canada. Canada's border guards and patrols have every right to enforce both their own entry regulations and Canada's laws while you are in our country.
Technically, you are correct but since the Israelis are preventing the establishment of a viable Palestinian state, it is moot whether it is impossible to have a corridor between the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

4. A dispute over territorial borders. The borders between Gaza and Israel are clear. There is no dispute about them, like there is between Israel, Area C and Areas A and B.
So-called areas is code for apartheid. All of them are in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem.

5. Having to live with a hostile population. There are no Jews in Gaza. And virtually no Christians remaining. it is virtually an entirely homogeneous population.
Gaza is as homogeneous today as the Warsaw Ghetto was between 1940 and 1943.


So, what exactly, are the Gazans "resisting"?
Bare subsistence ghettoization and periodic massacre.
 
Apart from primitive harmless fireworks from Gaza or token attacks by individuals, the Palestinian people are defenseless.

This does, however, bring up an interesting point.

Why, do you think that, "harmless fireworks" and/or random "token" attacks by individuals would be harmful to a society? What would you suggest as an alternative to the way Israel currently responds to these attacks?
End the blockade and occupation. Stop choking the Palestinian people and stealing their land for illegal settlements.
 
We all know the consequences inflicted on European Jews by the Third Reich. This language is familiar.

Exactly, when they were saying Jews are aliens and persecuted them on that basis in Europe and elsewhere, they were also persecuted in Palestine at the same time.

Now that the Jews are in Israel- the language and tactics are still the same, although towards a state but still a minority in the ME.

The song never changed for centuries, and still Jews are being killed and cleansed in Palestine and the ME.
No, not so many Jews are being killed in the Middle East. Palestinians, now there is a people subject to periodic massacre and under occupation.

In the recent 150 history alone, how many Jews were expelled and massacred allover the ME and Palestine?

'Not so many' You say...maybe not enough for You
You are very close to having me cease reading and replying to your posts. I am beginning to feel what it is like trying to argue with a Zionist. I am getting nowhere and getting accused of wanting Jews murdered.

Me Zionist?? :lmao:Read my first post.

I think that reading more on the subject, understanding that literature and theology are not of interest to You, I'd suggest the history of Jews and Palestine before 1870. Better in a real library.
It will get You to think more broadly, and in more accurate terms rather than political hotwords.
I'm more interested in 1970 and 2017 rather than before 1870.
 
The people in Gaza were born there or are refugees from the creation of Israel. They have a right to live in peace in their homeland and not have to arrange kinder-transport to countries that will accept them.

The Israelis can classify a UN school full of children as a military target and then it's Bombs Away!

Listening to You, it's like there's no long tradition of Hamas using UN buildings.

Mixing melodrama with disinformation won't give You the fuller picture.

Need evidence? There's plenty
You are repeating Israeli lies about schools, hospitals, civilian neighborhoods, and even children playing football as legitimate military targets in your attempt to put abroad the notion that Palestinians who were born in Palestine or are the refugees from the creation of Israel have no right to live there and how proper it would be if they all disappeared. No doubt the Israelis could arrange for the transportation.

Problem is no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their native homelands.
No Arab countries are preventing Palestinian refugees from returning to their homes in Israel, the land of their birth.

Really can the Palestinian Jews return to their homes in Gaza or Hebron?
I understand that Hebron is within the West Bank and there is a growing illegal settlement there where the IDF prevent Palestinians from living and working in their city. When Palestine is a free state, there will be no reason for Jews in Hebron to be Palestinian citizens.
 
These are basic instincts.

When an army official bangs on Your door telling You he's building something underneath Your house where Your wife, children and parents live You'd have no objections?
When the Israelis drop a bomb on your block of apartments and you have to get your family out including grandad in his wheelchair and toddlers before the next big bomb. You'd have no objections?

Well my stupidity would be one. It's common sense that You don't let guys with ammunition and explosives go anywhere near Your family.
If one has no control over, he can make sure to send his family to a safer place.

If one get's to a position where a foreign army already classified his residence as a military installation, then he really took his time or was quiet ignorant of the situation.
However it takes more than a day to build a storage or a tunnel underneath a house.
The people in Gaza were born there or are refugees from the creation of Israel. They have a right to live in peace in their homeland and not have to arrange kinder-transport to countries that will accept them.

The Israelis can classify a UN school full of children as a military target and then it's Bombs Away!

Listening to You, it's like there's no long tradition of Hamas using UN buildings.

Mixing melodrama with disinformation won't give You the fuller picture.

Need evidence? There's plenty
You are repeating Israeli lies about schools, hospitals, civilian neighborhoods, and even children playing football as legitimate military targets in your attempt to put abroad the notion that Palestinians who were born in Palestine or are the refugees from the creation of Israel have no right to live there and how proper it would be if they all disappeared. No doubt the Israelis could arrange for the transportation.









So the UN is acting for Israel now is it, as they say this is the case and Israel has no case to answer. So now you are saying that Syria, Iran and Iraq are in palestine, which is where the arab muslims come from
 
And before Zionism the Palestinian Jews have been called the instigators too, Sefad and Tibereas destroyed, thousands expelled and murdered in Hebron and Jerusalem.
We know how this works...

Now in the 2000' You say a love summer of suicide bombers and rocket showers are 'pathetic attempts'- nothing has changed.

It's essential for a state and the variety of ethnicities in it to have the ability to inflict such consequences on their enemies.
We all know the consequences inflicted on European Jews by the Third Reich. This language is familiar.

Exactly, when they were saying Jews are aliens and persecuted them on that basis in Europe and elsewhere, they were also persecuted in Palestine at the same time.

Now that the Jews are in Israel- the language and tactics are still the same, although towards a state but still a minority in the ME.

The song never changed for centuries, and still Jews are being killed and cleansed in Palestine and the ME.
No, not so many Jews are being killed in the Middle East. Palestinians, now there is a people subject to periodic massacre and under occupation.

In the recent 150 history alone, how many Jews were expelled and massacred allover the ME and Palestine?

'Not so many' You say...maybe not enough for You
You are very close to having me cease reading and replying to your posts. I am beginning to feel what it is like trying to argue with a Zionist. I am getting nowhere and getting accused of wanting Jews murdered.








Very soon being a crass coward will have you talking to yourself and then you will be screwed. You are showing that Nazi's dont like being proven wrong all the time by putting everyone on ignore who proves you a mindless immature cretin
 
Well my stupidity would be one. It's common sense that You don't let guys with ammunition and explosives go anywhere near Your family.
If one has no control over, he can make sure to send his family to a safer place.

If one get's to a position where a foreign army already classified his residence as a military installation, then he really took his time or was quiet ignorant of the situation.
However it takes more than a day to build a storage or a tunnel underneath a house.
The people in Gaza were born there or are refugees from the creation of Israel. They have a right to live in peace in their homeland and not have to arrange kinder-transport to countries that will accept them.

The Israelis can classify a UN school full of children as a military target and then it's Bombs Away!

Listening to You, it's like there's no long tradition of Hamas using UN buildings.

Mixing melodrama with disinformation won't give You the fuller picture.

Need evidence? There's plenty
You are repeating Israeli lies about schools, hospitals, civilian neighborhoods, and even children playing football as legitimate military targets in your attempt to put abroad the notion that Palestinians who were born in Palestine or are the refugees from the creation of Israel have no right to live there and how proper it would be if they all disappeared. No doubt the Israelis could arrange for the transportation.

Problem is no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their native homelands.
No Arab countries are preventing Palestinian refugees from returning to their homes in Israel, the land of their birth.






What about the ones who are illegal immigrants from the likes of Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon et al ?
 
Exactly, when they were saying Jews are aliens and persecuted them on that basis in Europe and elsewhere, they were also persecuted in Palestine at the same time.

Now that the Jews are in Israel- the language and tactics are still the same, although towards a state but still a minority in the ME.

The song never changed for centuries, and still Jews are being killed and cleansed in Palestine and the ME.
No, not so many Jews are being killed in the Middle East. Palestinians, now there is a people subject to periodic massacre and under occupation.

In the recent 150 history alone, how many Jews were expelled and massacred allover the ME and Palestine?

'Not so many' You say...maybe not enough for You
You are very close to having me cease reading and replying to your posts. I am beginning to feel what it is like trying to argue with a Zionist. I am getting nowhere and getting accused of wanting Jews murdered.

Me Zionist?? :lmao:Read my first post.

I think that reading more on the subject, understanding that literature and theology are not of interest to You, I'd suggest the history of Jews and Palestine before 1870. Better in a real library.
It will get You to think more broadly, and in more accurate terms rather than political hotwords.
I'm more interested in 1970 and 2017 rather than before 1870.







Because you know you can alter the truth when you need to
 
Listening to You, it's like there's no long tradition of Hamas using UN buildings.

Mixing melodrama with disinformation won't give You the fuller picture.

Need evidence? There's plenty
You are repeating Israeli lies about schools, hospitals, civilian neighborhoods, and even children playing football as legitimate military targets in your attempt to put abroad the notion that Palestinians who were born in Palestine or are the refugees from the creation of Israel have no right to live there and how proper it would be if they all disappeared. No doubt the Israelis could arrange for the transportation.

Problem is no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their native homelands.
No Arab countries are preventing Palestinian refugees from returning to their homes in Israel, the land of their birth.

Really can the Palestinian Jews return to their homes in Gaza or Hebron?
I understand that Hebron is within the West Bank and there is a growing illegal settlement there where the IDF prevent Palestinians from living and working in their city. When Palestine is a free state, there will be no reason for Jews in Hebron to be Palestinian citizens.







So you will be ethnically cleansing them from their ancestral homes. Do you have a copy of the plans for Crystal Nacht 2 by any chance, just to see if it matches the one we already got from hamas
 
"Today, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip.
And Israel uses this as an excuse to bomb occupied schools.







No they bombed the grounds of other schools that show on satellite imagery to be rocket launch sites. The arab muslims did their lemming act and all ran towards where the bombs were falling creating the next generation of martyrs.
 

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