NLRB Claims authority over Church Schools

[edjax1952]

Obama Issues Decree That He Will Now Decide Religiosity Of Churches, And Will Take Policy Control Of Those “Not Religious” In “The Right Way”, Then Immediately Orders Leftist Thug Control Of First Victim Church at Pat Dollard

Washington Examiner:
It’s not enough for President Obama’s National Labor Relations Board to target the Boeing plant in South Carolina. Now the NLRB thinks it can tell a church school when it’s not religious enough.
Most people have heard by now of NLRB’s unprecedented decree that Boeing Co. cannot build a new airline production facility in South Carolina.
But Obama’s NLRB is also claiming the authority to dictate labor policies and order union elections at Catholic universities if they are not religious enough.
St. Xavier University was founded in 1846, the oldest Catholic school in Illinois. Its corporate member is a Catholic body with the “powers for the governance of” St. Xavier, that “links the University to the [Catholic] Church and makes it an officially recognized member of the Church.”
St. Xavier’s Board of Trustees must have at least four nuns from the order that founded the school, and, according to its bylaws, its governing body must “ensure [St. Xavier] continues its educational and religious mission.”
After quoting these sources and many others, NLRB’s regional director concluded in true Orwellian fashion that “the evidence establishes” that St. Xavier is “a secular educational institution or university.”
To support this astounding conclusion flying in the face of the facts (not to mention common sense), NLRB claimed a 1979 Supreme Court affirms this authority.
Yet that case — NLRB v. Catholic Bishop of Chicago — actually says the complete opposite of what Obama’s NLRB claims.
In an instance of deja vu, the Supreme Court in Catholic Bishop considered a challenge to an NLRB order asserting authority over lay teachers at Illinois Catholic high schools. (Sound familiar?)
NLRB claimed that it had no authority over a church but that it possessed power over church-related bodies that are not purely religious, such as schools. The court considered whether the National Labor Relations Act granted NLRB such power.
Noting the religious mission of Catholic schools, the Supreme Court declared, “Good intentions by government … can surely no more avoid entanglement with the religious mission of a school” than legislation the court previously struck down as unconstitutional violations of religious liberty.
Turning to the facts of that case, the court reasoned, “The church-teacher relationship in a church-operated school differs from the employment relationship in a public … school. There is no escape from conflicts flowing from [NLRB's] exercise of jurisdiction over teachers in church-operated schools and the consequent serious First Amendment questions that would follow.”
The court then noted that nothing in the law’s language suggested NLRB has power over any church-affiliated organizations. The court invoked one of the most basic principles of American law, that a federal statute “ought not to be construed to violate the Constitution if any other possible construction remains available.”
Accordingly, the court held that federal law did not give NLRB the power it was claiming, so the court need not consider whether to strike down that provision. Instead, it held NLRB lacked any legal jurisdiction to judge the schools’ religiosity, and vacated NLRB’s order.
Far from authorizing NLRB’s action against St. Xavier, the ruling does the opposite of affirming the government has no such power over church schools. NLRB’s contrary assertion is a frightening power grab that must be taken to court.
So economic and social conservatives now have a common problem. Obama’s NLRB is being wielded as an instrument of unfettered federal power. Congress and the courts must act to end this imperial overreach.

 

[Conservative]

Link to actual decree from the White House please?

 

[edjax1952]

I will concede that the title of the article is biased. There was not decree. The right wing is just as guilty of twisting facts as the left in many cases.
I posted the article to bring to light that agencies under Obama, and his Democratic left wing crew (mostly appointed by Obama) are attempting to make a sweeping effort to expand the dictates of government control once more.

This time by dis-allowing private/church schools the priviledge of operating as private schools. We do not need more government oversite over private affairs. We need less government oversite over private affairs.

If it is validity of the events taking place you need, Here are other links concerning the issue.
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=10544
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/25/catholic-colleges-unions-and-the-nlrb/
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/nlrb-tells-church-school-its-not-religious-enough
http://www.laborunionreport.com/portal/2011/06/the-nlrbs-assault-on-religious-liberty-catholic-universities-not-catholic-enough-according-to-obama-board/
http://rttopics.com/q:1329

 

[AmericanFirst]

Obama Issues Decree That He Will Now Decide Religiosity Of Churches, And Will Take Policy Control Of Those “Not Religious” In “The Right Way”, Then Immediately Orders Leftist Thug Control Of First Victim Church at Pat Dollard

Washington Examiner:
It’s not enough for President Obama’s National Labor Relations Board to target the Boeing plant in South Carolina. Now the NLRB thinks it can tell a church school when it’s not religious enough.
Most people have heard by now of NLRB’s unprecedented decree that Boeing Co. cannot build a new airline production facility in South Carolina.
But Obama’s NLRB is also claiming the authority to dictate labor policies and order union elections at Catholic universities if they are not religious enough.
St. Xavier University was founded in 1846, the oldest Catholic school in Illinois. Its corporate member is a Catholic body with the “powers for the governance of” St. Xavier, that “links the University to the [Catholic] Church and makes it an officially recognized member of the Church.”
St. Xavier’s Board of Trustees must have at least four nuns from the order that founded the school, and, according to its bylaws, its governing body must “ensure [St. Xavier] continues its educational and religious mission.”
After quoting these sources and many others, NLRB’s regional director concluded in true Orwellian fashion that “the evidence establishes” that St. Xavier is “a secular educational institution or university.”
To support this astounding conclusion flying in the face of the facts (not to mention common sense), NLRB claimed a 1979 Supreme Court affirms this authority.
Yet that case — NLRB v. Catholic Bishop of Chicago — actually says the complete opposite of what Obama’s NLRB claims.
In an instance of deja vu, the Supreme Court in Catholic Bishop considered a challenge to an NLRB order asserting authority over lay teachers at Illinois Catholic high schools. (Sound familiar?)
NLRB claimed that it had no authority over a church but that it possessed power over church-related bodies that are not purely religious, such as schools. The court considered whether the National Labor Relations Act granted NLRB such power.
Noting the religious mission of Catholic schools, the Supreme Court declared, “Good intentions by government … can surely no more avoid entanglement with the religious mission of a school” than legislation the court previously struck down as unconstitutional violations of religious liberty.
Turning to the facts of that case, the court reasoned, “The church-teacher relationship in a church-operated school differs from the employment relationship in a public … school. There is no escape from conflicts flowing from [NLRB's] exercise of jurisdiction over teachers in church-operated schools and the consequent serious First Amendment questions that would follow.”
The court then noted that nothing in the law’s language suggested NLRB has power over any church-affiliated organizations. The court invoked one of the most basic principles of American law, that a federal statute “ought not to be construed to violate the Constitution if any other possible construction remains available.”
Accordingly, the court held that federal law did not give NLRB the power it was claiming, so the court need not consider whether to strike down that provision. Instead, it held NLRB lacked any legal jurisdiction to judge the schools’ religiosity, and vacated NLRB’s order.
Far from authorizing NLRB’s action against St. Xavier, the ruling does the opposite of affirming the government has no such power over church schools. NLRB’s contrary assertion is a frightening power grab that must be taken to court.
So economic and social conservatives now have a common problem. Obama’s NLRB is being wielded as an instrument of unfettered federal power. Congress and the courts must act to end this imperial overreach.

More proof that he is a socialist. But then idiots on here still claim he is not.

 

[editec]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

 

[edjax1952]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

With this premise, a church cannot create a school for its paritioners to attend that teach basic values, principles, including the sciences of math, science and social studies, in a manner that they consider to be important (the same as a private school). A church school should only teach religious doctrine, straight up, and should not have the ability to teach the application of this doctrine as it applies to everyday life?

 

[bodecea]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

With this premise, a church cannot create a school for its paritioners to attend that teach basic values, principles, including the sciences of math, science and social studies, in a manner that they consider to be important (the same as a private school). A church school should only teach religious doctrine, straight up, and should not have the ability to teach the application of this doctrine as it applies to everyday life?

You have a problem with that?

 

[AmericanFirst]

A Church in this country has the right to form its own school without gov't. interference. But considering this current admin is socialist, doesn't surprise me about this.

 

[edjax1952]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

With this premise, a church cannot create a school for its paritioners to attend that teach basic values, principles, including the sciences of math, science and social studies, in a manner that they consider to be important (the same as a private school). A church school should only teach religious doctrine, straight up, and should not have the ability to teach the application of this doctrine as it applies to everyday life?

You have a problem with that?

Yes, it is a government intrusion on the affairs of the church.

 

[Conservative]

The Washington Examiner piece is an OP-Ed. A GOOGLE search of 'Xavier University, nlrb' in the NEWS tab yields 3 hits... 2 of which are this same piece.

Further research, however, yields this...
Peter N. Kirstein » Blog Archive » St Xavier University v NLRB in Adjunct Faculty Efforts to Unionize

In this initial blogging on this situation I will present links to various documents that elucidate the effort of the St Xavier University Adjunct Faculty to pursue collective bargaining and the university’s determined efforts to prevent it. In 2010 the adjuncts attempted to form a union but voted not to unionise. The interim president at the time was Angela Durante, Ph.D. There were no legal challenges to their right to organise but a letter was sent indicating university concerns. I did not see the letter. The adjuncts waited a year to attempt again to form a union through an election under the affiliation of the Illinois Education Association. The election to the best of my knowledge will be held but the results will not be tabulated pending the outcome of St Xavier’s decision to challenge aggressively the National Labor Relations Board’s jurisdiction in this matter.

The NLRB pulled the same thing on Manhattan College. Here is their response...
News Release: Manhattan College Statement on NLRB Decision

Responding to the ruling, Brennan O’Donnell, president of the College, said “the analysis clearly and unfortunately demonstrates the NLRB’s lack of understanding of the identity of Manhattan College as a 21st-century Catholic college whose mission requires engagement with the broader culture of American society and higher education. Apparently the union and the government mistake our intellectual openness and welcoming spiritual environment, which we consider to be strengths of the Catholic intellectual tradition, as weaknesses. The ruling suggests that the Regional NLRB believes that the primary hallmarks of an authentic Catholic college or university are exclusionary hiring, a proselytizing atmosphere, and dogmatic inflexibility in the curriculum.”

“While the ruling is disappointing,” said O’Donnell, “it is not surprising. The NLRB has consistently failed to follow the instructions of federal courts as to the constitutional protections to which religiously-affiliated entities are entitled. It is important to understand, however, that the courts have consistently recognized the kind of self-definition of religious identity that the College has presented in its arguments, and that they have upheld claims such as those we are making in barring the NLRB from asserting jurisdiction over religiously-affiliated colleges.”

Founded in 1853, Manhattan College is an independent, Lasallian Catholic, coeducational institution of higher learning

The NLRB is pushing their luck.

 

[edjax1952]

The Washington Examiner piece is an OP-Ed. A GOOGLE search of 'Xavier University, nlrb' in the NEWS tab yields 3 hits... 2 of which are this same piece.

Further research, however, yields this...
Peter N. Kirstein » Blog Archive » St Xavier University v NLRB in Adjunct Faculty Efforts to Unionize

In this initial blogging on this situation I will present links to various documents that elucidate the effort of the St Xavier University Adjunct Faculty to pursue collective bargaining and the university’s determined efforts to prevent it. In 2010 the adjuncts attempted to form a union but voted not to unionise. The interim president at the time was Angela Durante, Ph.D. There were no legal challenges to their right to organise but a letter was sent indicating university concerns. I did not see the letter. The adjuncts waited a year to attempt again to form a union through an election under the affiliation of the Illinois Education Association. The election to the best of my knowledge will be held but the results will not be tabulated pending the outcome of St Xavier’s decision to challenge aggressively the National Labor Relations Board’s jurisdiction in this matter.

The NLRB pulled the same thing on Manhattan College. Here is their response...
News Release: Manhattan College Statement on NLRB Decision

Responding to the ruling, Brennan O’Donnell, president of the College, said “the analysis clearly and unfortunately demonstrates the NLRB’s lack of understanding of the identity of Manhattan College as a 21st-century Catholic college whose mission requires engagement with the broader culture of American society and higher education. Apparently the union and the government mistake our intellectual openness and welcoming spiritual environment, which we consider to be strengths of the Catholic intellectual tradition, as weaknesses. The ruling suggests that the Regional NLRB believes that the primary hallmarks of an authentic Catholic college or university are exclusionary hiring, a proselytizing atmosphere, and dogmatic inflexibility in the curriculum.”

“While the ruling is disappointing,” said O’Donnell, “it is not surprising. The NLRB has consistently failed to follow the instructions of federal courts as to the constitutional protections to which religiously-affiliated entities are entitled. It is important to understand, however, that the courts have consistently recognized the kind of self-definition of religious identity that the College has presented in its arguments, and that they have upheld claims such as those we are making in barring the NLRB from asserting jurisdiction over religiously-affiliated colleges.”

Founded in 1853, Manhattan College is an independent, Lasallian Catholic, coeducational institution of higher learning

The NLRB is pushing their luck.

So, if I've gotten it right, the issue is that the Catholic School, in the traditional spirit of diversity, is being challenged because it accepts teachers of other deniminations into its fold and therefore forfiets its priveldge of being a church (Catholic) oriented school.

 

[Conservative]

The Washington Examiner piece is an OP-Ed. A GOOGLE search of 'Xavier University, nlrb' in the NEWS tab yields 3 hits... 2 of which are this same piece.

Further research, however, yields this...
Peter N. Kirstein » Blog Archive » St Xavier University v NLRB in Adjunct Faculty Efforts to Unionize

In this initial blogging on this situation I will present links to various documents that elucidate the effort of the St Xavier University Adjunct Faculty to pursue collective bargaining and the university’s determined efforts to prevent it. In 2010 the adjuncts attempted to form a union but voted not to unionise. The interim president at the time was Angela Durante, Ph.D. There were no legal challenges to their right to organise but a letter was sent indicating university concerns. I did not see the letter. The adjuncts waited a year to attempt again to form a union through an election under the affiliation of the Illinois Education Association. The election to the best of my knowledge will be held but the results will not be tabulated pending the outcome of St Xavier’s decision to challenge aggressively the National Labor Relations Board’s jurisdiction in this matter.

The NLRB pulled the same thing on Manhattan College. Here is their response...
News Release: Manhattan College Statement on NLRB Decision

Founded in 1853, Manhattan College is an independent, Lasallian Catholic, coeducational institution of higher learning

The NLRB is pushing their luck.

So, if I've gotten it right, the issue is that the Catholic School, in the traditional spirit of diversity, is being challenged because it accepts teachers of other deniminations into its fold and therefore forfiets its priveldge of being a church (Catholic) oriented school.

Sounds like it. They are apparently 'not' religious enough', because the welcome diversity.

 

[editec]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

With this premise, a church cannot create a school for its paritioners to attend that teach basic values, principles, including the sciences of math, science and social studies, in a manner that they consider to be important (the same as a private school). A church school should only teach religious doctrine, straight up, and should not have the ability to teach the application of this doctrine as it applies to everyday life?

Yeah that is a good point, edjax, one that I cannot entirely dismiss as irrelevant.

But the point of freedom of religion is to keep RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

When a church goes into another business other than devine worship, it ought to be subjec tto the same laws as every other organization in THAT business.

The problem is deciding when a Church has stepped outside the boundry of what CHURCHES are first and foremost all about.

When a Church is in the business of providing SECULAR education, then it is no longer JUST a church.

 

[edjax1952]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

With this premise, a church cannot create a school for its paritioners to attend that teach basic values, principles, including the sciences of math, science and social studies, in a manner that they consider to be important (the same as a private school). A church school should only teach religious doctrine, straight up, and should not have the ability to teach the application of this doctrine as it applies to everyday life?

Yeah that is a good point, edjax, one that I cannot entirely dismiss as irrelevant.

But the point of freedom of religion is to keep RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

When a church goes into another business other than devine worship, it ought to be subjec tto the same laws as every other organization in THAT business.

The problem is deciding when a Church has stepped outside the boundry of what CHURCHES are first and foremost all about.

When a Church is in the business of providing SECULAR education, then it is no longer JUST a church.

Hogwash! If my church is forbidden to teach me how to live my faith in concordane with the world around me (secular) it is forbidden to teach it's doctrine.

 

[Intense]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

That is a big fail. I know that in NY religious institutions serve regularly in nonreligious function. Shelters, Pantry's, Food Banks, Soup Kitchens, Schools, State Special Education Schools, Charter Schools, Colleges, in which the Property is used. Religious Articles are covered up or removed so the space is neutral. Neither the Local, State, or Federal Authorities have had a problem with that. Keep stirring up shit though.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I'd bet good money that if you dig deep enough, what you'll find in all the cases that came up in this thread is that the religious organizations in question accepted some form of Federal Aid.

Here's the thing, once you accept Federal or State Aid, in the form of vouchers, grants, loans, etc. you open up a whole Pandora's box of things you have to do to keep that aid flowing. That in particular is why I'm against most voucher programs, as once you start that money flowing towards Churches, I guarantee that the red tape will follow.

 

[saveliberty]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

The NLRB is wrong. It has been proven wrong by the SUpreme Court once already. Further, churches have been linked to education for centuries. Public education is not a Constitutionaly granted right. The more government has become involved in education, the poorer the education.

 

[bodecea]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

That is a big fail. I know that in NY religious institutions serve regularly in nonreligious function. Shelters, Pantry's, Food Banks, Soup Kitchens, Schools, State Special Education Schools, Charter Schools, Colleges, in which the Property is used. Religious Articles are covered up or removed so the space is neutral. Neither the Local, State, or Federal Authorities have had a problem with that. Keep stirring up shit though.

If a Church sets up a Soup Kitchen, are they responsible to the Health Dept. or not?

 

[Intense]

I'd bet good money that if you dig deep enough, what you'll find in all the cases that came up in this thread is that the religious organizations in question accepted some form of Federal Aid.

Here's the thing, once you accept Federal or State Aid, in the form of vouchers, grants, loans, etc. you open up a whole Pandora's box of things you have to do to keep that aid flowing. That in particular is why I'm against most voucher programs, as once you start that money flowing towards Churches, I guarantee that the red tape will follow.

I seriously doubt there is a problem with compliance here. It has been going on for a very long time. These are old institutions that have earned their due by helping the communities they serve with a long record of success.

Here is an overview of a Sister School of the OP.

Overview

St. Katharine Drexel of Philadelphia and her Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament, a religious community dedicated to the education of African Americans and Native Americans, established Xavier as a high school in 1915. The four-year college program was added in 1925. Today Xavier retains its distinction as the only historically Black, Catholic University in the United States.
In 1970, the Sisters transferred control of the University to a joint lay/religious Board of Trustees. Dr. Norman C. Francis, a 1952 XU graduate, has served as president since 1968. He is the longest tenured college president in the United States.
Xavier's student body is predominantly African American (74.9%), but the university is open to all. Recent years have seen a growing influx of out-of-state students, yet more than one-half of the university’s 3,391 students are from Louisiana. The University’s pre-Hurricane Katrina (2005) enrollment was 4,100.
Undergraduate students, regardless of their major are required to complete sixty-six hours of liberal arts core curriculum courses in English, Literature, Fine Arts, Foreign Languages, History, African American Studies, Mathematics, Natural Sciences, Philosophy, Theology, and Social Sciences in addition to courses in their major fields. Xavier offers preparation in 47 major areas on the undergraduate, graduate, and professional degree levels.
The University is accredited by the Commission on Colleges of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools. Its respective programs are accredited by the American Council of Pharmaceutical Education, the National Association of Schools of Music, the Louisiana Department of Education, the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs, and the National Council for Accreditation of Teacher Education (NCATE). Xavier is also approved by the American Chemical Society.
According to the U.S. Department of Education, Xavier continues to rank first nationally in the number of African American students earning undergraduate degrees in both the biological/life sciences and the physical sciences.
The College of Pharmacy, one of only two pharmacy schools in Louisiana, is among the nation’s top three producers of African American Doctor of Pharmacy degree recipients
In pre-medical education, Xavier ranks first in the nation in placing African American students into medical schools, where it has been ranked since 1993.
In 2010, the University awarded 504 degrees. Alumni ranks have grown to more than 20,000.

Xavier University of Louisiana - About Xavier

It would be very interesting taking this to the Supreme Court, interesting, yet a waste of money.

 

[Intense]

I think the NLRB is right.

The role of churches is NOT to become something other than a church.

A church founded university that is not ENTIRELY focused on matters religious is NOT a church, it is a university of higher education.

That is a big fail. I know that in NY religious institutions serve regularly in nonreligious function. Shelters, Pantry's, Food Banks, Soup Kitchens, Schools, State Special Education Schools, Charter Schools, Colleges, in which the Property is used. Religious Articles are covered up or removed so the space is neutral. Neither the Local, State, or Federal Authorities have had a problem with that. Keep stirring up shit though.

If a Church sets up a Soup Kitchen, are they responsible to the Health Dept. or not?

Yes, and they are inspected regularly. They are obligated just as any other, to be in compliance with Governing Regulations.