fuzzykitten99
VIP Member
What I would like to know, is why, if this happened that long ago, and the situation was being investigated BACK THEN, were the photos JUST NOW released? To me it doesn't seem coincidental that the photos came out the SAME WEEK that J.F. Kerry's campaign ads came out on TV.
In the article, it even states that the abuse happened over appx a 10 day period, and the guy who seemed to be the head of it, was intoxicated when it was happening. Then when he suddenly stopped coming around, the abuse stopped. He even said that he has no ill feelings to us.
quote from the article:
"Mr. Abd spoke with no particular anger at the American occupation, though he has seen it closer than most Iraqis. In six months in prisons run by American soldiers, in fact, he said most of them had treated him well and with respect."
This scandal is starting to smell fishy, with the timing. The abuse took place back in NOVEMBER...and they are now just coming out with it.
Now I am not saying what went on was right, as it was certainly uncalled for. Not only that, is that the outrage that other countries feel about this could be counted as a complement, as it tells me that they expect more from this country, and they should.
here is the full article, and the link:
BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 4 The shame is so deep that Hayder Sabbar Abd says he feels that he cannot move back to his old neighborhood. He would prefer not even to stay in Iraq. But now the entire world has seen the pictures, which Mr. Abd looked at yet again on Tuesday, pointing out the key figures, starting with three American soldiers wearing big smiles for the camera.
"That is Joiner," he said, pointing to one male soldier in glasses, a black hat and blue rubber gloves. His arms were crossed over a stack of naked and hooded Iraqi prisoners.
"That is Miss Maya," he said, pointing to a young woman's fresh face poking up over the same pile.
He gazed down at another picture. In it, a second female soldier flashed a "thumbs up" and pointed with her other hand at the genitals of a man wearing nothing but a black hood, his fingers laced on top of his head. He did not know her name. But the small scars on the torso left little doubt about the identity of the naked prisoner.
"That is me," he said, and he tapped his own hooded, slightly hunched image.
Mr. Abd, 34, is at the center of an explosive scandal over American mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners, but he remained calm in a detailed, two-hour account of his time at the fearsome Abu Ghraib prison. He claimed that he was never interrogated, and never charged with a crime. Officials at the prison said Tuesday that they could not comment on his case.
In November, when the abuse took place, few Shiite Muslims like Mr. Abd were carrying out attacks against United States forces. Nearly all the attacks were attributed to forces loyal to Saddam Hussein, mostly Sunni Muslims, and fighters from other Muslim countries.
"The truth is we were not terrorists," he said. "We were not insurgents. We were just ordinary people. And American intelligence knew this."
Mr. Abd spoke with no particular anger at the American occupation, though he has seen it closer than most Iraqis. In six months in prisons run by American soldiers, in fact, he said most of them had treated him well and with respect.
"Most of the time, they wouldn't even say, `Shut up,' " he said.
That changed in November he does not know the exact date when punishment for a prisoner fight at Abu Ghraib degenerated into torture. That night, he said, he and six other inmates were beaten, stripped naked (a particularly deep humiliation in the Arab world), forced to pile on top of one another, to straddle one another's backs naked, to simulate oral sex. American guards wrote words like "rapist" on their skin with Magic Marker, he said.
The curiosity, through much of the ordeal, was the camera. It was a detail he mentioned repeatedly as he recalled being forced against a wall and ordered by the Arabic translator to masturbate as he looked at one of the female guards.
"She was laughing, and she put her hands on her breasts," Mr. Abd said. "Of course, I couldn't do it. I told them that I couldn't, so they beat me in the stomach, and I fell to the ground. The translator said, `Do it! Do it! It's better than being beaten.' I said, `How can I do it?' So I put my hand on my penis, just pretending."
All the while, he said, the flash of the camera kept illuminating the dim room that once held prisoners of Mr. Hussein, recording images that have infuriated the Arab world and badly sullied America's image in a country more willing these days to think the worst of its occupiers.
"It was humiliating," Mr. Abd said in Arabic through an interpreter. "We did not think that we would survive. All of us believed we would be killed and not get out alive."
Though the pictures tell their own story, the details of Mr. Abd's account could not be verified. But a military official here said the prisoner number that Mr. Abd gave, 13077, matched that of a former prisoner who submitted a sworn statement alleging abuse by American soldiers. He also said the man's account was consistent with those verified by a military investigator. Several episodes that Mr. Abd recounted also matched, in some detail, testimony given by other American soldiers horrified by what they saw.
New York Times article link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/international/middleeast/05INMA.html
(edited to correct the link)
In the article, it even states that the abuse happened over appx a 10 day period, and the guy who seemed to be the head of it, was intoxicated when it was happening. Then when he suddenly stopped coming around, the abuse stopped. He even said that he has no ill feelings to us.
quote from the article:
"Mr. Abd spoke with no particular anger at the American occupation, though he has seen it closer than most Iraqis. In six months in prisons run by American soldiers, in fact, he said most of them had treated him well and with respect."
This scandal is starting to smell fishy, with the timing. The abuse took place back in NOVEMBER...and they are now just coming out with it.
Now I am not saying what went on was right, as it was certainly uncalled for. Not only that, is that the outrage that other countries feel about this could be counted as a complement, as it tells me that they expect more from this country, and they should.
here is the full article, and the link:
BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 4 The shame is so deep that Hayder Sabbar Abd says he feels that he cannot move back to his old neighborhood. He would prefer not even to stay in Iraq. But now the entire world has seen the pictures, which Mr. Abd looked at yet again on Tuesday, pointing out the key figures, starting with three American soldiers wearing big smiles for the camera.
"That is Joiner," he said, pointing to one male soldier in glasses, a black hat and blue rubber gloves. His arms were crossed over a stack of naked and hooded Iraqi prisoners.
"That is Miss Maya," he said, pointing to a young woman's fresh face poking up over the same pile.
He gazed down at another picture. In it, a second female soldier flashed a "thumbs up" and pointed with her other hand at the genitals of a man wearing nothing but a black hood, his fingers laced on top of his head. He did not know her name. But the small scars on the torso left little doubt about the identity of the naked prisoner.
"That is me," he said, and he tapped his own hooded, slightly hunched image.
Mr. Abd, 34, is at the center of an explosive scandal over American mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners, but he remained calm in a detailed, two-hour account of his time at the fearsome Abu Ghraib prison. He claimed that he was never interrogated, and never charged with a crime. Officials at the prison said Tuesday that they could not comment on his case.
In November, when the abuse took place, few Shiite Muslims like Mr. Abd were carrying out attacks against United States forces. Nearly all the attacks were attributed to forces loyal to Saddam Hussein, mostly Sunni Muslims, and fighters from other Muslim countries.
"The truth is we were not terrorists," he said. "We were not insurgents. We were just ordinary people. And American intelligence knew this."
Mr. Abd spoke with no particular anger at the American occupation, though he has seen it closer than most Iraqis. In six months in prisons run by American soldiers, in fact, he said most of them had treated him well and with respect.
"Most of the time, they wouldn't even say, `Shut up,' " he said.
That changed in November he does not know the exact date when punishment for a prisoner fight at Abu Ghraib degenerated into torture. That night, he said, he and six other inmates were beaten, stripped naked (a particularly deep humiliation in the Arab world), forced to pile on top of one another, to straddle one another's backs naked, to simulate oral sex. American guards wrote words like "rapist" on their skin with Magic Marker, he said.
The curiosity, through much of the ordeal, was the camera. It was a detail he mentioned repeatedly as he recalled being forced against a wall and ordered by the Arabic translator to masturbate as he looked at one of the female guards.
"She was laughing, and she put her hands on her breasts," Mr. Abd said. "Of course, I couldn't do it. I told them that I couldn't, so they beat me in the stomach, and I fell to the ground. The translator said, `Do it! Do it! It's better than being beaten.' I said, `How can I do it?' So I put my hand on my penis, just pretending."
All the while, he said, the flash of the camera kept illuminating the dim room that once held prisoners of Mr. Hussein, recording images that have infuriated the Arab world and badly sullied America's image in a country more willing these days to think the worst of its occupiers.
"It was humiliating," Mr. Abd said in Arabic through an interpreter. "We did not think that we would survive. All of us believed we would be killed and not get out alive."
Though the pictures tell their own story, the details of Mr. Abd's account could not be verified. But a military official here said the prisoner number that Mr. Abd gave, 13077, matched that of a former prisoner who submitted a sworn statement alleging abuse by American soldiers. He also said the man's account was consistent with those verified by a military investigator. Several episodes that Mr. Abd recounted also matched, in some detail, testimony given by other American soldiers horrified by what they saw.
New York Times article link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/international/middleeast/05INMA.html
(edited to correct the link)
