My soapbox was getting a little dusty...

[Bullypulpit]

As I read the headlines, listen to the radio and watch TV, I really don't hear any meaningful debate from the rabid-right and Potemkin village patriots about the war in Iraq. All that I do hear or see is that anyone who even <i>suggests</i> that we possibly consider redeploying troops in Iraq are immediately branded as unpatriotic, treasonous, un-American, terrorist-loving, troop-hating, cheese-eating, surrender monkeys. These assertions, or the seemingly infinite permutations thereof, are patently false. But that doesn't matter to the slavish supporters of the Bush administration and this war who make such assertions, because truth is not the issue.

What they are attempting to do is avoid the possibility of any debate on the issue of the war in Iraq because they cannot win a straight up argument. So instead, they take the statements of the administration's, and the war's, opponents and turn them inside out, take them out of context, turning them into something entirely different from what they originally meant. Thus they attempt to marginalize those opponents of the administration and the war, and by doing so, squelch any meaningful debate, because that is simply the last thing they want.

 

[Bern80]

You must be getting your media feed from a different planet. Last I checked half a dozen or so Republicans have openly criticized Bush's war effort. I haven't heard any rebuttals of being un-patriotic or treasoness from the administration regarding this as well as few comments from talk radio.

Support for this war is eroding everywhere, including in the right wing, myself included. There will be big time problems if we leave of course, but this has turned from the worthy cause of trying to promote a free, democratic country to trying to babysit a bunch of teenagers who would rather just kill each other. Look no further than this passed weekend for evidence of that, when there were 200 plus casulites in a suicide bombing, all Iraqis.

I can get behind the cause of liberator. I can't get behind spending American lives to be referee and babysitter.

 

[Gunny]

As I read the headlines, listen to the radio and watch TV, I really don't hear any meaningful debate from the rabid-right and Potemkin village patriots about the war in Iraq. All that I do hear or see is that anyone who even <i>suggests</i> that we possibly consider redeploying troops in Iraq are immediately branded as unpatriotic, treasonous, un-American, terrorist-loving, troop-hating, cheese-eating, surrender monkeys. These assertions, or the seemingly infinite permutations thereof, are patently false. But that doesn't matter to the slavish supporters of the Bush administration and this war who make such assertions, because truth is not the issue.

What they are attempting to do is avoid the possibility of any debate on the issue of the war in Iraq because they cannot win a straight up argument. So instead, they take the statements of the administration's, and the war's, opponents and turn them inside out, take them out of context, turning them into something entirely different from what they originally meant. Thus they attempt to marginalize those opponents of the administration and the war, and by doing so, squelch any meaningful debate, because that is simply the last thing they want.

What's there to debate? The left has kept up a running barrage of propaganda long enough that everyone's tired of it and tuning out. All you want to do is bail.

What's to debate about THAT?

 

[Ninja]

Funny that I've yet to meet an anti- who thinks it possible to be pro-THIS-war in good faith.

(For the record, I don't identify as "pro-THIS-war". Just sayin' I see some hypocrisy when left-leaners complain about the level of the debate.)

 

[Gunny]

Funny that I've yet to meet an anti- who thinks it possible to be pro-war in good faith.

Bully's a vet, not anti-war. He's anti-THIS-war.

 

[Ninja]

Fixed.

 

[Annie]

As I read the headlines, listen to the radio and watch TV, I really don't hear any meaningful debate from the rabid-right and Potemkin village patriots about the war in Iraq. All that I do hear or see is that anyone who even <i>suggests</i> that we possibly consider redeploying troops in Iraq are immediately branded as unpatriotic, treasonous, un-American, terrorist-loving, troop-hating, cheese-eating, surrender monkeys. These assertions, or the seemingly infinite permutations thereof, are patently false. But that doesn't matter to the slavish supporters of the Bush administration and this war who make such assertions, because truth is not the issue.

What they are attempting to do is avoid the possibility of any debate on the issue of the war in Iraq because they cannot win a straight up argument. So instead, they take the statements of the administration's, and the war's, opponents and turn them inside out, take them out of context, turning them into something entirely different from what they originally meant. Thus they attempt to marginalize those opponents of the administration and the war, and by doing so, squelch any meaningful debate, because that is simply the last thing they want.

Bully, it's a two way street:

http://usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?p=585876#post585876 #75 I believe.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont really have any comment on the war in iraq. Except, I disagree in the strongest terms possible, with people branding you or others like you with name calling, and mean spirited bullying. Its not true, I hate what the left does it, Therefore i cannot and will not condone it when the right does it.

I am neutral on the iraq war, but whether we agree or not, i will stand up with you, and fight for your right to speak, and have your voice heard.

As I read the headlines, listen to the radio and watch TV, I really don't hear any meaningful debate from the rabid-right and Potemkin village patriots about the war in Iraq. All that I do hear or see is that anyone who even <i>suggests</i> that we possibly consider redeploying troops in Iraq are immediately branded as unpatriotic, treasonous, un-American, terrorist-loving, troop-hating, cheese-eating, surrender monkeys. These assertions, or the seemingly infinite permutations thereof, are patently false. But that doesn't matter to the slavish supporters of the Bush administration and this war who make such assertions, because truth is not the issue.

What they are attempting to do is avoid the possibility of any debate on the issue of the war in Iraq because they cannot win a straight up argument. So instead, they take the statements of the administration's, and the war's, opponents and turn them inside out, take them out of context, turning them into something entirely different from what they originally meant. Thus they attempt to marginalize those opponents of the administration and the war, and by doing so, squelch any meaningful debate, because that is simply the last thing they want.

 

[Bullypulpit]

You must be getting your media feed from a different planet. Last I checked half a dozen or so Republicans have openly criticized Bush's war effort. I haven't heard any rebuttals of being un-patriotic or treasoness from the administration regarding this as well as few comments from talk radio.

Support for this war is eroding everywhere, including in the right wing, myself included. There will be big time problems if we leave of course, but this has turned from the worthy cause of trying to promote a free, democratic country to trying to babysit a bunch of teenagers who would rather just kill each other. Look no further than this passed weekend for evidence of that, when there were 200 plus casulites in a suicide bombing, all Iraqis.

I can get behind the cause of liberator. I can't get behind spending American lives to be referee and babysitter.

And the red-meat, rabid right is painting them with the same brush they've been painting 'liberals' and other opponents of the Bush administration's pursuit of the occupation of Iraq.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Funny that I've yet to meet an anti- who thinks it possible to be pro-THIS-war in good faith.

(For the record, I don't identify as "pro-THIS-war". Just sayin' I see some hypocrisy when left-leaners complain about the level of the debate.)

The invasion and occupation of Iraq was a conscious choice made by the Bush administration for, at best, dubious reasons. Bush and Co could've scraped Afghanistan out like a gourd and had my full support. But they took their eyes off of the real enemy and drew down troops in Afghanistan to work off Bush's chubby for Saddam.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I dont really have any comment on the war in iraq. Except, I disagree in the strongest terms possible, with people branding you or others like you with name calling, and mean spirited bullying. Its not true, I hate what the left does it, Therefore i cannot and will not condone it when the right does it.

I am neutral on the iraq war, but whether we agree or not, i will stand up with you, and fight for your right to speak, and have your voice heard.

If you are truly 'neutral' regarding the invasion and occupation of Iraq, you haven't really been paying attention. Examine the arguments, the data and the rationales. Take the time to see what is being done in our names, and you will no longer be 'neutral'.

 

[CSM]

As I read the headlines, listen to the radio and watch TV, I really don't hear any meaningful debate from the rabid-right and Potemkin village patriots about the war in Iraq. All that I do hear or see is that anyone who even <i>suggests</i> that we possibly consider redeploying troops in Iraq are immediately branded as unpatriotic, treasonous, un-American, terrorist-loving, troop-hating, cheese-eating, surrender monkeys. These assertions, or the seemingly infinite permutations thereof, are patently false. But that doesn't matter to the slavish supporters of the Bush administration and this war who make such assertions, because truth is not the issue.

What they are attempting to do is avoid the possibility of any debate on the issue of the war in Iraq because they cannot win a straight up argument. So instead, they take the statements of the administration's, and the war's, opponents and turn them inside out, take them out of context, turning them into something entirely different from what they originally meant. Thus they attempt to marginalize those opponents of the administration and the war, and by doing so, squelch any meaningful debate, because that is simply the last thing they want.

Ironic, ain't it?

C'mon Bully, be honest. You collaborate with some of our more prolific right wingers and post the same rants. You merely swap "right" for "left" or vice versa.

 

[Stephanie]

Well........starting out a post this way......Is inviting a lot of people to the debate....I don't believe you really wanted to debate...You just needed your soapbox dusted off.......as you said...

As I read the headlines, listen to the radio and watch TV, I really don't hear any meaningful debate from the rabid-right and Potemkin village patriots about the war in Iraq.

 

[CSM]

Well........starting out a post this way......Is inviting a lot of people to the debate....I don't believe you really wanted to debate...You just needed your soapbox dusted off.......as you said...

Hey now, Bully is my morning ray of sunshine. Sometimes he accidently hits on something I agree with (I hate it when that happens) and I have to rep him. The rest of the time, he makes me laugh.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I appreciate your passion. And I think all options should be considered, to simple says liberals want to surrender is not fair. This war isnt exactly going as planned. And there is a real chance the surge will fail, and what then. If a republican says, Im sorry, i just dont believe we can win the war, and i dont wanna see any more of our boys die, for a war, that i honestly , after considering all the evidence, believe we cant, if he a traiter, a liberal. What if one day, i decide, its time the war stops. Im only asking, the libs to consider maybe we shouldnt leave, and the repubs, maybe we should stay, and that both opinons, should be respected, and no one should have their patriatism questioned for having the balls to stand up for what they believe is right, even if we disagree.

If you are truly 'neutral' regarding the invasion and occupation of Iraq, you haven't really been paying attention. Examine the arguments, the data and the rationales. Take the time to see what is being done in our names, and you will no longer be 'neutral'.

 

[Stephanie]

I just hate to see.......A Vet...

Put down other Vets..... while their still out in the field.......

Because.....when you degrade their Commander in Chief....
It filters back onto them......

From my experience, working with Military for yrs....

They would be angry and ashamed of it, comming from one of their own....

Just my 2cnts.....

God Bless our troops..

 

[Bullypulpit]

I just hate to see.......A Vet...

Put down other Vets..... while their still out in the field.......

Because.....when you degrade their Commander in Chief....
It filters back onto them......

From my experience, working with Military for yrs....

They would be angry and ashamed of it, comming from one of their own....

Just my 2cnts.....

God Bless our troops..

I'm sorry, dear, when have I "put down other Vets"? If wanting them home in one piece is putting them down...So be it. If not wanting to see their lives spent as a salve to the ego of the man we call "Mr. President"...So be it. I've had skin in this game, my cousin and my brother-in-law. They understand and accept my position, even sharing it to a certain extent. They have my respect for doing their duties despite any misgivings they may have, and I hold every member of the armed forces in that same esteem. But they also share the love that comes of being family.

When the Commander-in-Chief refuses to listen to reason, ignores the facts on the ground, chooses to spend our blood and treasure in pursuit of a policy that was doomed to failure from the start, by his own actions, it is the Commander-in-Chief who is "putting down" our troops and the veterans of the conflict he initiated in his own folly and hubris. Not me. And yes, God bless our troops and bring them safely and quickly home.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

I just hate to see.......A Vet...

Put down other Vets..... while their still out in the field.......

Because.....when you degrade their Commander in Chief....
It filters back onto them......

From my experience, working with Military for yrs....

They would be angry and ashamed of it, comming from one of their own....

Just my 2cnts.....

God Bless our troops..

Our political and military leaders and, as a consequence, the troops in the field, CAN be completely in the wrong but still believe they are &#8220;fighting the good fight.&#8221;

There are numerous instances of this in human history.

Who doubts that most Germans and Japanese were totally convinced they were fighting for Truth, Justice, and the Japanese/German Way in WW2. Or that the Crusaders were convinced they were carrying out &#8220;God&#8217;s Will&#8217; when they massacred the Muslim and Jewish population of Jerusalem in 1099?

The real wrong in war is being total(itarian)ly convinced you are right. ALL war&#8217;s evils proceed from this position.

The question that people should be asking themselves is, &#8220;What is it in our national make-up that persuades us that we are ALWAYS right when we fight a war?&#8221;

 

[Gunny]

I smell some realtivism afoot. When you're right, you're right. Morally, there was nothing wrong with deposing Saddam. He was a piece of shit.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

I smell some realtivism afoot. When you're right, you're right. Morally, there was nothing wrong with deposing Saddam. He was a piece of shit.

Morally, there was nothing wrong with deposing Saddam. He was a piece of shit.

My point precisely!

Morally, there is nothing wrong with deposing Dimwit. He is a piece of war criminal shit.

1 Samuel 29:5 Is not this Dimwit, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saddam slew his thousands, and Dimwit his ten thousands? (KJV) ...