Mormons?

Yes, that's the standard reply. However, that's not the biblical test of a prophet. According to Deuteronomy, if a person claiming to be a prophet of God is wrong only once, they are a false prophet. That's the Word of God.

So, when Jonah told the people of Nineveh that God was going to kick their asses, instead of telling them to repent or else God would kick their asses; when Jonah was disappointed when he sat up on the mountain waiting to watch the ass-kicking that never took place because the Ninevans did repent; was Jonah a false prophet?

The standard you cite is absurd and impossible. There has only been one man, in the entire history of humanity, that has never been wrong, even once. By your standard, it is impossible for anyone other than Jesus himself to have been a prophet of God.
 
I never got the idea why prophets of God should be flawless, as well as their words. They were just humans, after all.

Jonah is an excellent example of this.

God called him as a prophet, and told him to go to Nineveh and tell them to repent of their wickedness, or else God was going to have to kick their asses.

So, what did Jonah do? He got on a boat headed as far away from Nineveh as he hoped to get. God had to go to some rather unusual measures to get Jonah to go to Nineveh.

When Jonah finally got there, instead of telling the Ninevans to repent or their ass was going to get kicked, he just told them that they were wicked,and God was going to kick their assess. He then found himself a good place on a mountain to sit with a big box of popcorn and a 32-ounce Super-Squencher, and watch the ass-kicking.

In the mean time, in spite of Jonah having screwed up the message, the Ninevans got it anyway, and repented, so the ass-kicking didn't happen.

The last chapter of Jonah's story is about God teaching Jonah what all of that was about, and showing him where he went wrong.
Jonah is the Standard example mormons use when defending the prophetic errors of Smith. Read this carefully. Please.
 
You either have faith in what you believe in or ya don't

A person's faith is a personal thing. Unless you're attempting to convert someone to your faith, there is no reason to justify it to another.

There is no reason for unsolicited prying into the beliefs of others unless you want to dissuade them from it.
Education and information. Nothing wrong with making an informed decision about something so important.
 
Yes, that's the standard reply. However, that's not the biblical test of a prophet. According to Deuteronomy, if a person claiming to be a prophet of God is wrong only once, they are a false prophet. That's the Word of God.

So, when Jonah told the people of Nineveh that God was going to kick their asses, instead of telling them to repent or else God would kick their asses; when Jonah was disappointed when he sat up on the mountain waiting to watch the ass-kicking that never took place because the Ninevans did repent; was Jonah a false prophet?

The standard you cite is absurd and impossible. There has only been one man, in the entire history of humanity, that has never been wrong, even once. By your standard, it is impossible for anyone other than Jesus himself to have been a prophet of God.

Of course people make mistakes, BUT if anyone claims "Thus says the Lord", it has to happen. The Lord doesn't lie. People lie.
 
Yes, that's the standard reply. However, that's not the biblical test of a prophet. According to Deuteronomy, if a person claiming to be a prophet of God is wrong only once, they are a false prophet. That's the Word of God.
There is that, and the fact Joseph Smith was a con man--no doubt about it. However...

Whatever the beginnings of the LDS Church, look where it is today. God and His Holy Spirit meets His people where they are and shepherds them from that place. While Joseph Smith may well have been a false prophet, the people (at least as much as any other people) have not been false, and I believe the Holy Spirit is upon it as much as any other faith or denomination. While I have a huge problem with one of their rituals, the people of this faith have been a great blessing to my life.
 
Jonah is the Standard example mormons use when defending the prophetic errors of Smith. Read this carefully. Please.


Are you somehow under the impression that posting the same dishonest bullshit twice makes it any less bullshit?
 
Yes, that's the standard reply. However, that's not the biblical test of a prophet. According to Deuteronomy, if a person claiming to be a prophet of God is wrong only once, they are a false prophet. That's the Word of God.
There is that, and the fact Joseph Smith was a con man--no doubt about it. However...

Whatever the beginnings of the LDS Church, look where it is today. God and His Holy Spirit meets His people where they are and shepherds them from that place. While Joseph Smith may well have been a false prophet, the people (at least as much as any other people) have not been false, and I believe the Holy Spirit is upon it as much as any other faith or denomination. While I have a huge problem with one of their rituals, the people of this faith have been a great blessing to my life.
Mormons are wonderful people. I love them. I love them enough to tell them the truth. I know many mormons that have left the organization and put their faith in Jesus. Jesus saves, not Mormonism
 
Jonah is the Standard example mormons use when defending the prophetic errors of Smith. Read this carefully. Please.


Are you somehow under the impression that posting the same dishonest bullshit twice makes it any less bullshit?
You haven't read it. Go ahead.
 
You either have faith in what you believe in or ya don't

A person's faith is a personal thing. Unless you're attempting to convert someone to your faith, there is no reason to justify it to another.

There is no reason for unsolicited prying into the beliefs of others unless you want to dissuade them from it.
Education and information. Nothing wrong with making an informed decision about something so important.

That would be equivalent to a perfect stranger asking you to justify your choice of spouse.

The factors that go into making such an important, and personal, decision cannot be fully articulated to a stranger.
 
Are you somehow under the impression that posting the same dishonest bullshit twice makes it any less bullshit?
You haven't read it. Go ahead.

I've read that article, and others on that bullshit site, many times, probably long before you ever knew that site existed.

You do realize, do you no, that that particular site exists for no other purpose than to spread lies and slander about my religion? Only an ignorant cretin would take anything from such a site as that as being in any way credible. Or someone who shares their irrational obsession with slandering the Mormon faith.

Merely by citing such a source, you demonstrate that you are nobody to be taken seriously.
 
You either have faith in what you believe in or ya don't

A person's faith is a personal thing. Unless you're attempting to convert someone to your faith, there is no reason to justify it to another.

There is no reason for unsolicited prying into the beliefs of others unless you want to dissuade them from it.
Education and information. Nothing wrong with making an informed decision about something so important.

That would be equivalent to a perfect stranger asking you to justify your choice of spouse.

The factors that go into making such an important, and personal, decision cannot be fully articulated to a stranger.
Well, if you were married to a total fraud wouldn't you want to know?
 
Are you somehow under the impression that posting the same dishonest bullshit twice makes it any less bullshit?
You haven't read it. Go ahead.

I've read that article, and others on that bullshit site, many times, probably long before you ever knew that site existed.

You do realize, do you no, that that particular site exists for no other purpose than to spread lies and slander about my religion? Only an ignorant cretin would take anything from such a site as that as being in any way credible. Or someone who shares their irrational obsession with slandering the Mormon faith.

Merely by citing such a source, you demonstrate that you are nobody to be taken seriously.
That site is made up of ex Mormons. There are many groups of ex mormons that reach out to mormons.
 
That site is made up of ex Mormons. There are many groups of ex mormons that reach out to mormons.

Bullshit.

I've been familiar with that site, and it's lies, surely much longer than you have.

Merely by citing it as a source, and treating it as if it has any credibility, you have effectively admitted that you have lost this argument, and that you never had any truth behind you to begin with.
 
Actually....and I might get in trouble for saying this...but every religion peoples I have run into that were NOT kind or nice are....christians.:(
Very judgemental, ready to argue their faith, use scare tactics to persuade you to be Christian or else yougo to hell and burn forever if you don't do this or that. Which is why I consider myself pagan-christian. A bit of both but with the same God/Jesus. Not goddesses.

The first girl to ever literally proposition me for some come-of-age sexual experimentation...was a warm, friendly, intelligent muslim African girl in a robe and towel-turban (what do they call them?). She actually sweetly asked me if I'd like to experiment between the sheets with her! I was just 16 and she was about the same. I was utterly shocked, and to tell the truth I chickened out. Wish I hadn't. I'm a very Nordic/Germanic white guy and I kind of lean toward religions like Buddhism and Hinduism, but exotic faiths have always interested me intellectually and even spiritually at times. I also dated a nice Jewish girls for awhile and several Catholics. Never dated a protestant. Interesting. I never thought about why...
 
That site is made up of ex Mormons. There are many groups of ex mormons that reach out to mormons.

Bullshit.

I've been familiar with that site, and it's lies, surely much longer than you have.

Merely by citing it as a source, and treating it as if it has any credibility, you have effectively admitted that you have lost this argument, and that you never had any truth behind you to begin with.
 
You either have faith in what you believe in or ya don't

A person's faith is a personal thing. Unless you're attempting to convert someone to your faith, there is no reason to justify it to another.

There is no reason for unsolicited prying into the beliefs of others unless you want to dissuade them from it.
Education and information. Nothing wrong with making an informed decision about something so important.

That would be equivalent to a perfect stranger asking you to justify your choice of spouse.

The factors that go into making such an important, and personal, decision cannot be fully articulated to a stranger.
Well, if you were married to a total fraud wouldn't you want to know?

No one's business but my own.

Believing it to be any of your concern is the pinnacle of impertinence.
 
You either have faith in what you believe in or ya don't

A person's faith is a personal thing. Unless you're attempting to convert someone to your faith, there is no reason to justify it to another.

There is no reason for unsolicited prying into the beliefs of others unless you want to dissuade them from it.
Education and information. Nothing wrong with making an informed decision about something so important.

That would be equivalent to a perfect stranger asking you to justify your choice of spouse.

The factors that go into making such an important, and personal, decision cannot be fully articulated to a stranger.
Well, if you were married to a total fraud wouldn't you want to know?

No one's business but my own.

Believing it to be any of your concern is the pinnacle of impertinence.
Public forum.
 
We all choose what we will believe and what we will not. If you were to pass away and your close relatives gave permission to allow the church baptize you vicariously, we would do it. We don't go off of what an individual believed in this life but allow them the possibility to have changed their mind once in world of spirits. Like I have stated several times before, it is in the spirit world where you will have to make your final decision. There you can reject it and it will not be binding upon you and will have no effect.
I am a spirit, I am in the spirit world. I am with the Lord. Your claim is that as a spirit I would have to look to someone back on earth to make things right for me. Why? Because those in the spirit world (including the Lord) have no power? You, not the Lord, have the power? (And some get upset that I label this as a kind of idolatry.)

You may not recognize it, but Catholics and LDS are close in respect to those who have passed on. We pray for those who have passed on, and I know, absolutely, those prayers have power. Not once have I had to be a proxy to anyone to have these prayers heard. I do not question what is in your hearts; I do question your lack of reverence for the freedom of will God bestowed on each of us. Unless your LDS Church has MY authority for you to become MY proxy, no relative, no matter how close has any authority to turn me over to one of your proxies. For this reason alone, your ceremonies are invalid. Then an LDS statement here that the spirit in the afterlife can just reject your rite after it is done is an admission that the LDS church has no respect for its own rituals since they say outright that ritual can be shunned once done. It is an admission your rituals have no power. We agree on that point as well.

So why not leave it with prayer and acknowledge the power of prayer and the results are in the hands of the Lord.

In the last words of the Old Testament it says,

Malachi 4:5-6
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Elijah has come and has turned the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers. This return was fulfilled in a visitation to Joseph Smith in April of 1836.

Doctrine and Covenants 110:13-16
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

This dispensation that we currently live in is known as the dispensation of the fullness of times. In this dispensation, the prophets of all other dispensations from times past would commit the keys of their dispensation to the current prophets of this dispensation. Elijah restored the keys of his dispensation to the Prophet Joseph Smith and part of those keys was the turning of the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers. This is being fulfilled as we of this dispensation are looking back into the past at our forefathers and collecting all their names so that they can receive the saving ordinances that are performed in our temples including baptism for the dead. We believe that during the millennium the heavens will be opened and all the information about this earth's past inhabitants (from the fathers) will be revealed and all those who desire to have their work done will have it done. This is the fulfillment of Malachi's prophecy. For now, the heavens are not open to us and we now baptize anyone whom we can gain permission to baptize. It is not far distant when our Lord will come again on the earth and at that time the first resurrection will occur, but before one can enter into the kingdom of heaven, they must be baptized. Thus the immediacy of the work. The first resurrection lasts throughout the millennium. The Lord is establishing his temples for the great millennial work that has already started.

God has commanded us to build temples and within those temples we are to place baptismal fonts for performing the great work for the dead. For this reason we do not simply ignore him but we seek to do his will. God does not want it to be just left up to him through our prayers but has instructed us to go forth and do the work.

We recognize your authority since you are here on the earth to decide for yourself whether to be baptized or not. But once you have a change of existence and find yourself in the world of disembodied spirits, we don't know if you will change your mind or not. We simply perform the ordinance in case you do change your mind and allow you to accept and reject it then when you are presented again with that choice. Perhaps when the heavens are opened in the millennium, we will know who decides to accept it and who decides to reject it before performing the ordinance. But for now we don't have that luxury and must do all we can for the salvation of mankind as God would have us do.
 

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