Military assistance to the Border. Rules summary of the Military

eagle1462010

Diamond Member
May 17, 2013
67,349
32,500
2,290
This details the laws of use of the military and the primary laws for building the Wall by the military. Should Trump declare a crisis and use the military to build the wall these laws will be the ones eventually going to the Supreme Court.

Border Security and Military Support: Legal Authorizations and Restrictions

Restrictions
The primary restriction on military participation in civilian law enforcement activities is the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA).9The PCA prohibits the use of the Army and Air Force to execute the domestic laws of the United States except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The PCA has been further applied to the Navy and Marine Corps by legislative and administrative supplements. For example, 10 U.S.C. §375, directs the Secretary of Defense to promulgate regulations forbidding the direct participation "by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity" during support activities to civilian law enforcement agencies. DOD issued Directive 5525.5, which outlines its policies and procedures for supporting federal, state, and local LEAs. According to the Directive, the following forms of direct assistance are prohibited: (1) interdiction of a vehicle, vessel, aircraft, or other similar activity; (2) a search or seizure; (3) an arrest, apprehension, stop and frisk, or similar activity; and (4) use of military personnel in the pursuit of individuals, or as undercover agents, informants, investigators, or interrogators. It is generally accepted that the PCA does not apply to the actions of the National Guard when not in federal service.10 As a matter of policy, however, National Guard regulations stipulate that its personnel are not, except for exigent circumstances or as otherwise authorized, to directly participate in the arrest or search of suspects or the general public.11

12 The Constitution, however, contains no provision expressly authorizing the President to use the military to execute the law. The question of whether the constitutional exception includes instances where the President is acting under implied or inherent constitutional powers is one the courts have yet to answer. DOD regulations, nonetheless, do assert two constitutionally based exceptions—sudden emergencies and protection of federal property.13 The PCA also does not apply where Congress has expressly authorized use of the military to execute the law. Congress has done so in three ways: by giving a branch of the armed forces civilian law enforcement authority (e.g., the Coast Guard), by addressing certain circumstances with more narrowly crafted legislation,14 and by establishing general rules for certain types of assistance.

The military indirectly supports border security and immigration control efforts under general legislation that authorizes the armed forces to support federal, state, and local LEAs. Since the early 1980s, Congress has periodically authorized an expanded role for the military in providing support to LEAs. Basic authority for most DOD assistance was originally passed in 1981 and is contained in Chapter 18 of Title 10 of the U.S. Code—Military Support for Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies. Under Chapter 18 of Title 10, Congress authorizes DOD to share information (§371); loan equipment and facilities (§372); provide expert advice and training (§373); and maintain and operate equipment (§374). For federal LEAs, DOD personnel may be made available, under §374, to maintain and operate equipment in conjunction with counterterrorism operations (including the rendition of a suspected terrorist from a foreign country) or the enforcement of counterdrug laws, immigration laws, and customs requirements. For any civilian LEA, §374 allows DOD personnel to maintain and operate equipment for a variety of purposes, including aerial reconnaissance and the detection, monitoring, and communication of air and sea traffic, and of surface traffic outside the United States or within 25 miles of U.S. borders, if first detected outside the border. Congress placed several stipulations on Chapter 18 assistance, e.g., LEAs must reimburse DOD for the support it provides unless the support "is provided in the normal course of military training or operations" or if it "results in a benefit...substantially equivalent to that which would otherwise be obtained from military operations or training."15 Pursuant to §376, DOD can only provide such assistance if it does not adversely affect "the military preparedness of the United States." Congress incorporated posse comitatus restrictions into Chapter 18 activities in §375.

In 1989, Congress began to expand the military's support role. For example, Congress directed DOD, to the maximum extent practicable, to conduct military training exercises in drug-interdiction areas, and made the DOD the lead federal agency for the detection and monitoring of aerial and maritime transit of illegal drugs into the United States.16 Congress later provided additional authorities for military support to LEAs specifically for counterdrug purposes in the National Defense Authorization Act for FY1991.17 Section 1004 authorized DOD to extend support in several areas to any federal, state, and local (and sometimes foreign) LEA requesting counterdrug assistance. This section has been extended regularly and is now in force through the end of FY2011.18

As amended, §1004 authorizes the military to: maintain, upgrade, and repair military equipment; transport federal, state, local, and foreign law enforcement personnel and equipment within or outside the U.S.; establish bases for operations or training; train law enforcement personnel in counterdrug activities; detect, monitor, and communicate movements of air, sea, and surface traffic outside the U.S., and within 25 miles of the border if the detection occurred outside the U.S.; construct roads, fences, and lighting along U.S. border; provide linguists and intelligence analysis services; conduct aerial and ground reconnaissance; and establish command, control, communication, and computer networks for improved integration of law enforcement, active military, and National Guard activities. Section 1004 incorporates the posse comitatus restrictions of Chapter 18.19 Unlike Chapter 18, however, this law does allow support which could affect military readiness in the short-term, provided the Secretary of Defense believes the support outweighs such short-term adverse effect.
 
The question of whether the constitutional exception includes instances where the President is acting under implied or inherent constitutional powers is one the courts have yet to answer. DOD regulations, nonetheless, do assert two constitutionally based exceptions—sudden emergencies and protection of federal property.13
Remember this.
 
32 CFR 215.4 - Legal considerations.

(a) Under the Constitution and laws of the United States, the protection of life and property and the maintenance of public order are primarily the responsibilities of State and local governments, which have the necessary authority to enforce the laws. The Federal Government may assume this responsibility and this authority only in certain limited instances.

(b) Aside from the constitutional limitations of the power of the Federal Government at the local level, there are additional legal limits upon the use of military forces within the United States. The most important of these from a civil disturbance standpoint is the Posse Comitatus Act ( 18 U.S.C. 1385), which prohibits the use of any part of the Army or the Air Force to execute or enforce the laws, except as authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress.

(c) The Constitution and Acts of Congress establish six exceptions, generally applicable within the entire territory of the United States, to which the Posse Comitatus Act prohibition does not apply.

(1) The constitutional exceptions are two in number and are based upon the inherent legal right of the U.S. Government - a sovereign national entity under the Federal Constitution - to insure the preservation of public order and the carrying out of governmental operations within its territorial limits, by force if necessary.

(i)The emergency authority. Authorities prompt and vigorous Federal action, including use of military forces, to prevent loss of life or wanton destruction of property and to restore governmental functioning and public order when sudden and unexpected civil disturbances, disasters, or calamities seriously endanger life and property and disrupt normal governmental functions to such an extent that duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situations.

(ii)Protection of Federal property and functions. Authorizes Federal action, including the use of military forces, to protectFederal property and Federal governmental functions when the need for protection exists and duly constituted local authorities are unable or decline to provide adequate protection.
 
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/95-964.pdf

Constitutional Considerations The Posse Comitatus Act raises at least three constitutional questions. (1) To what extent does the Posse Comitatus Act track constitutional requirements, beyond the power of the President or Congress to adjust or ignore? (2) To what extent do the powers which the Constitution vests in the President limit the power of Congress to enact the Posse Comitatus Act or any other provision restricting the President's discretion to involve the armed forces in civilian affairs? (3) What specifically are the military law enforcement activities "expressly authorized in the Constitution" for purposes of the Act?
 
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/95-964.pdf

Constitutional Considerations The Posse Comitatus Act raises at least three constitutional questions. (1) To what extent does the Posse Comitatus Act track constitutional requirements, beyond the power of the President or Congress to adjust or ignore? (2) To what extent do the powers which the Constitution vests in the President limit the power of Congress to enact the Posse Comitatus Act or any other provision restricting the President's discretion to involve the armed forces in civilian affairs? (3) What specifically are the military law enforcement activities "expressly authorized in the Constitution" for purposes of the Act?
 
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/95-964.pdf

Congress has recently established provisions which at first glance might appear to be a blanket statutory exception of military assistance to civil authorities for any purpose other than police activities ("[t]he Secretary of Defense shall establish a program to be known as the `Civil-Military Cooperative Action Program.' Under the program, the Secretary may, in accordance with other applicable law, use the skills, capabilities, and resources of the armed forces to assist civilian efforts to meet the domestic needs of the United States," 10 U.S.C. 410(a)). Upon closer examination, however, it becomes clear that legislation seeks to encourage activity that would not previously have violated the Posse Comitatus Act or its supplementary statutory and regulatory provisions ("The programs shall have the following objectives: (1) To enhance individual and unit training and morale in the armed forces through meaningful community involvement of the armed forces. (2) To encourage cooperation between civilian and military sectors of society in addressing domestic needs. (3) To advance equal opportunity. (4) To enrich the civilian economy of the United states through education, training, and transfer of technological advances. (5) To improve the environment and economic and social conditions. (6) To provide opportunities for disadvantaged citizens of the United States. . . . Nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing -- (1) the use of the armed forces for civilian law enforcement purposes; or (2) the use of Department of Defense personnel or resources for any program, project, or activity that is prohibited by law," 10 U.S.C. 410(b),(e)); S.Rep.No. 102-352, 278-82 (1992); H.R.Rep.No. 102-966, 762, reprinted in 1992 UNITED STATES CODE,CONGRESSIONAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE NEWS 1769, 1853.
 
"This details the laws of use of the military and the primary laws for building the Wall by the military. Should Trump declare a crisis and use the military to build the wall these laws will be the ones eventually going to the Supreme Court."




OH FVCKING GREAT; another fvcking WALL THREAD ..............

Heads UP... READ THE LISTINGS -- before starting new threads..

FVCK
Actually......it's whether it's legal for the military to build the wall. LOL

And I'm quoting the laws if he declares an emergency.
 
"This details the laws of use of the military and the primary laws for building the Wall by the military. Should Trump declare a crisis and use the military to build the wall these laws will be the ones eventually going to the Supreme Court."




OH FVCKING GREAT; another fvcking WALL THREAD ..............

Heads UP... READ THE LISTINGS -- before starting new threads..

FVCK

Tell us who is forcing you to read those threads and we'll form a committee and kick his ass.
 
Defending the nation against foreign invasion is explicitly a duty and purpose of our military,

The Posse Comitatus act is irrelevant, here.
10 usc 410 seems to agree there........that the military can indeed assist civilian assets like the CBP.........

Honestly I think the biggest challenge is going to be using funds allocated for military appropriations.........and not the ability of the Military to build the wall........I think Trump wins that side of the equation.

Appropriations challenge will be the tough one I think.
 
"This details the laws of use of the military and the primary laws for building the Wall by the military. Should Trump declare a crisis and use the military to build the wall these laws will be the ones eventually going to the Supreme Court."




OH FVCKING GREAT; another fvcking WALL THREAD ..............

Heads UP... READ THE LISTINGS -- before starting new threads..

FVCK

Tell us who is forcing you to read those threads and we'll form a committee and kick his ass.


well, you are ALSO obviously TOO STUPID to read the request by management here

Heads UP... READ THE LISTINGS -- before starting new threads..
 
"This details the laws of use of the military and the primary laws for building the Wall by the military. Should Trump declare a crisis and use the military to build the wall these laws will be the ones eventually going to the Supreme Court."




OH FVCKING GREAT; another fvcking WALL THREAD ..............

Heads UP... READ THE LISTINGS -- before starting new threads..

FVCK

Tell us who is forcing you to read those threads and we'll form a committee and kick his ass.


well, you are ALSO obviously TOO STUPID to read the request by management here

Heads UP... READ THE LISTINGS -- before starting new threads..

No I'm not stupid but sometimes the title of the OP doesn't describe the gist of the content. And sometimes 2 or 3 different people will start similar threads within 2 or 3 minutes. And you should read the request by management not to insult people, YOU STUPID ASS.
 
"This details the laws of use of the military and the primary laws for building the Wall by the military. Should Trump declare a crisis and use the military to build the wall these laws will be the ones eventually going to the Supreme Court."




OH FVCKING GREAT; another fvcking WALL THREAD ..............

Heads UP... READ THE LISTINGS -- before starting new threads..

FVCK

Tell us who is forcing you to read those threads and we'll form a committee and kick his ass.


well, you are ALSO obviously TOO STUPID to read the request by management here

Heads UP... READ THE LISTINGS -- before starting new threads..

No I'm not stupid but sometimes the title of the OP doesn't describe the gist of the content. And sometimes 2 or 3 different people will start similar threads within 2 or 3 minutes. And you should read the request by management not to insult people, YOU STUPID ASS.
I did this thread as a means to store the information of the laws for the military building the wall. As it sums it up real good.

It is quite possible that Trump will declare a crisis. My biggest concern is the appropriations use part of the Supreme Court Battle. Not the military building it. I think he wins that one.
 
‘Congressional Democrats have already said they would mount a court challenge to any use of emergency authority.

“The president’s authority in this area is intended for wars and genuine national emergencies,” Evan Hollander, spokesman for the House Appropriations Committee, said in a statement. “Asserting this authority to build a wasteful wall is legally dubious and would invite a legal challenge from Congress.”’

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-08/trump-eyes-untested-emergency-power-to-fund-wall-skirt-congress

Exactly.

That Trump and others on the right are frightened, hateful bigots doesn’t constitute a ‘national emergency.’
 
‘Congressional Democrats have already said they would mount a court challenge to any use of emergency authority.

“The president’s authority in this area is intended for wars and genuine national emergencies,” Evan Hollander, spokesman for the House Appropriations Committee, said in a statement. “Asserting this authority to build a wasteful wall is legally dubious and would invite a legal challenge from Congress.”’

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-08/trump-eyes-untested-emergency-power-to-fund-wall-skirt-congress

Exactly.

That Trump and others on the right are frightened, hateful bigots doesn’t constitute a ‘national emergency.’
And the information said that these areas haven't been fully settled on just what the Military can do..........Which would be a Supreme Court Battle. If you lose the military WILL BUILD THAT WALL.

Would be easier if your side would stop wasting money on the shutdown and give the 4 Billion for 250 miles of wall now wouldn't it.........You aren't going to like it if you lose in the Supreme Court.

You were wrong on several cases already there. Might be the Supreme Court picks.........LOL
 
Seems that this thread was reported. LOL

Moved to the Military forum. The issue is Political, Military, and LEGAL.

More to the legal aspect of the military building the wall.
 
Defending the nation against foreign invasion is explicitly a duty and purpose of our military,

The Posse Comitatus act is irrelevant, here.
10 usc 410 seems to agree there........that the military can indeed assist civilian assets like the CBP.........

Honestly I think the biggest challenge is going to be using funds allocated for military appropriations.........and not the ability of the Military to build the wall........I think Trump wins that side of the equation.

Appropriations challenge will be the tough one I think.

The ONLY reason that the President would have to declare a National Emergency would be to use the Federal Military for Police duties against Civilians. Not building the wall. He has the authority to dispatch military personnel to build the wall now. What he doesn't have is the funding to pay for the materials to build the wall. All Presidents have a discretionary fund they can draw on but not 20 billion dollars worth and still expect to keep the Military running. Trump believes that he can declare a state of National Emergency and those funds can be taken from the DOD budget and spent on a Civilian wall. Yes they can but at what cost? The Political and Economic fallout of such an action would be great. And a possible grounds for impeachment. Trump had better damn well start understanding he is NOT above the law. The actual funds for that wall will still have to be allocated by the House of Representatives in the form of a Bill that also has to be approved by the Senate. This is a small item for a Dictator but it should be a very important item for a President.

If he uses this as an excuse to needlessly declare a National Emergency then he is just trying to keep the entire nation in a constant state of panic. I already talked about the type of person that does this. But Trump had better walk softly on this one.
 
Trump believes that he can declare a state of National Emergency and those funds can be taken from the DOD budget and spent on a Civilian wall.

National defense is not a civilian matter. This falls very squarely in the powers and duties assigned to the military, to defend our nation against foreign attack and invasion.
 
Last edited:
Defending the nation against foreign invasion is explicitly a duty and purpose of our military,

The Posse Comitatus act is irrelevant, here.

It doesn't apply for the Military to supply the labor to build the wall. But it does apply where the Military is used for Police action against Civilians no matter what their nationality is as long as it's on US Soil. In order to use the US Military for that Police Action, the President would have to declare a National Emergency and have 60 days that he can do it. At the end of 60 days (or until congress votes against it) he must justify it to Congress. If Congress does not approve it he has 48 hours to remove those troops. And at that point, his days of being President is probably measured in weeks not years.


The President does have the power to dispatch Military for support to the Borders. Things like cooking meals, doing laundry, supply runs, and yes, building the wall. He doesn't need a National Emergency to do these actions since the Posse Comitatus Act only really covers the Police Action part of it which could turn into a real nightmare is enacted. The President does have the power to have the Military (such as the Corp of Engineers or CBs) to construct the wall but the materials have to be purchased to the tune of somewhere between 20 and 55 billion dollars. All Presidents have discretionary funds at their disposal but if they use that funding for one thing there will be other parts of their administration that will come to a screeching halt in the very near future and he still won't have that kind of funding unless he borrows from peter to pay paul. If he does that, get ready for some real nasty times ahead. IF he can take 50 billion from the DOD funding then the next time around, the DOD allocation may very well be minus that 50 billion dollars since, obviously, they don't need it. Congress might even go one step further and decide to push for a misappropriation of funds which would be quite easy to prove and you really want to go there? Trump needs to figure out real fast that he's not above the law.
 

Forum List

Back
Top