Militant, authoritarian atheists

[manifold]

I went to this benefit fund raiser over the weekend and found myself in a conversation with a man that I met there. He was obviously well educated, and pretty intelligent and knowledgable and we were getting along well...

until he brought up is loathing of all things God and religious.

Now, most people know I'm no bible thumper, and I'm more than willing to rip on any relgion, but this guy has a hair across his ass about it that just seems nuts to me.

He actually believes that it should be against the law to teach your children religion.

That's right, against the law. Have you ever heard of anything so militant, authoritarian and just plain absurd?

 

[L.K.Eder]

hang on, i will PM my elaborate response to you.

 

[manifold]

hang on, i will PM my elaborate response to you.

I have PM's disabled.

Please do me a solid and post it here.

 

[AllieBaba]

Hehe, he's still working on that PM that he won't be able to send.

 

[AllieBaba]

I was in church a while back with my kids. My daughter was singing, so I was in the front pew filming her. And the guy sitting behind me, who is also exceedingly well educated, spent the whole time in church saying snide things about religion and even the bible passage chosen by the pastor.

Apparently THAT'S okay, but we're horrible people for daring to share our beliefs with our own children, in the privacy of our homes and churches.

 

[Truthmatters]

The man you speak of will do damage to his own world view wishes with such intolerance.

 

[AllieBaba]

He's generally a nice guy. But why on earth attend church if you're just going to bash it??

 

[amrchaos]

Hey Manifold.

Did that apostate have any kids? I bet he did not. Next time you run across an apostate(that is what they are!!) that disagrees with "brainwashing" tots, ask them what they will teach the children in order to become acceptable citizens?

 

[manifold]

He actually believes that it should be against the law to teach your children religion.

Of course I didn't even tell you the best part, his reasoning.

Claimed that such a ban wouldn't violate the 1st Amendment because the parents would still be allowed to "practice whatever voodoo" floats their boat, but freedom of religion doesn't allow you to force religion on your child. Actually believes that parents that do so today (and there are many), are actually violating their child's constitutional rights in doing so.

 

[RodISHI]

The trend has been out there for a long time now. It appears to be gaining momentum as the groups become more vocal to attempt to dis anyone who does believe. When you have a country where more honor is given to the corrupt person more than the truly honorable person what else would one expect?

 

[AllieBaba]

He's wrong.
Kids don't have the same rights that adults do.

 

[Truthmatters]

Hey Manifold.

Did that apostate have any kids? I bet he did not. Next time you run across an apostate(that is what they are!!) that disagrees with "brainwashing" tots, ask them what they will teach the children in order to become acceptable citizens?

I taught mine to respect other people.

I also taught mine about all religions when he asked questions about religion.

At one point he finnally asked what I believed and I told him.

He is a great guy and is also an athiest of his own choice.

 

[RodISHI]

He's wrong.
Kids don't have the same rights that adults do.

The hopes of the anti's are to eventually overcome all parental rights and instill their own beliefs into the children via the programing. That is why so many people are opting out of public schools when they can for their children's sake.

 

[manifold]

He's wrong.
Kids don't have the same rights that adults do.

The hopes of the anti's are to eventually overcome all parental rights and instill their own beliefs into the children via the programing. That is why so many people are opting out of public schools when they can for their children's sake.

It takes a village, remember?

 

[goldcatt]

He's wrong.
Kids don't have the same rights that adults do.

The hopes of the anti's are to eventually overcome all parental rights and instill their own beliefs into the children via the programing. That is why so many people are opting out of public schools when they can for their children's sake.

Funny, that's exactly what a lot of the militant atheists say about the militant christians. And I'd say to some extent they're both right.

I'm not a fan of either group. Personal beliefs are personal and should be respected even and especially when people disagree. But look at what our politics have become, and how religion (or lack thereof) for good or ill has been intertwined with it. To say all whackjob militant fundamentalist Christians are conservative and all whackjob militant atheists are liberal is an overgeneralization but one with a large grain of truth to it all the same.

My question is, in all this fighting over "the children" - what are we actually teaching our children? This is where both camps lose all credibility with me.

 

[amrchaos]

He actually believes that it should be against the law to teach your children religion.

Of course I didn't even tell you the best part, his reasoning.

Claimed that such a ban wouldn't violate the 1st Amendment because the parents would still be allowed to "practice whatever voodoo" floats their boat, but freedom of religion doesn't allow you to force religion on your child. Actually believes that parents that do so today (and there are many), are actually violating their child's constitutional rights in doing so.

I have to disagree with that reasoning. Since a child is not properly cognizant on issues dealing with reality, their ability to think and make important decisions must be funneled through a reliabel source that seeks to protect them. Thus the role of the parent is to make those decisions for the child until the child mental abilities have properly matured--that is assumed to take 20 years. During this time, all rights of the child is no more than an extension of the parents will. Of course, a good parent does not need to sit down and make this argument with the child! They carry on in their decision making as if the child existance is the precise point to making any decisions about the child. I commend these parents--that is instinctual parental skills that is "FELT" and not "REASONED" and is not taught in any Liberal arts school or even Home education. Keep up the good work!!

In short, the rights of children are property of the parents until the child reaches adulthood. Such complex concepts such as freedom of speech and so forth are laughable in terms of child rearing and protecting the child as practiced under a loving parents care. And on the issue of education--the parents have full jurisdiction in terms of what the child should learn, when they should learn it, how they should learn it and even who should teach it to them!! How can an ignorant little brat make such decisions! They can not, thus the burden must fall to the parents!!

The above argument is really one of commonsense practice in any home where there is a parent, and children to be raised! I wonder about these madmen that try to give serious decision making powers to children. Do they really think they are aiding the children of the world? Of course not!! Their ideas are silly!! How will the ignorant learn? By example--reality's cruelest teacher? Those madmen must hope to gain fools to mislead!! Parents, do not take the words of that apostate seriously. He is an insane fool at best!

 

[manifold]

I have to disagree with that reasoning. Since a child is not properly cognizant on issues dealing with reality, their ability to think and make important decisions must be funneled through a reliabel source that seeks to protect them. Thus the role of the parent is to make those decisions for the child until the child mental abilities have properly matured--that is assumed to take 20 years. During this time, all rights of the child is no more than an extension of the parents will. Of course, a good parent does not need to sit down and make this argument with the child! They carry on in their decision making as if the child existance is the precise point to making any decisions about the child. I commend these parents--that is instinctual parental skills that is "FELT" and not "REASONED" and is not taught in any Liberal arts school or even Home education. Keep up the good work!!

In short, the rights of children are property of the parents until the child reaches adulthood. Such complex concepts such as freedom of speech and so forth are laughable in terms of child rearing and protecting the child as practiced under a loving parents care. And on the issue of education--the parents have full jurisdiction in terms of what the child should learn, when they should learn it, how they should learn it and even who should teach it to them!! How can an ignorant little brat make such decisions! They can not, thus the burden must fall to the parents!!

The above argument is really one of commonsense practice in any home where there is a parent, and children to be raised! I wonder about these madmen that try to give serious decision making powers to children. Do they really think they are aiding the children of the world? Of course not!! Their ideas are silly!! How will the ignorant learn? By example--reality's cruelest teacher? Those madmen must hope to gain fools to mislead!! Parents, do not take the words of that apostate seriously. He is an insane fool at best!

Well said.

While talking to him I did find myself wondering if Ravi could possibly be a middle-age, overweight bald man.

 

[L.K.Eder]

i had solved all related problems. all sides would have lived happily ever after.
but i could not send my PM to a certain wimp, so i destroyed it.

 

[uscitizen]

He's generally a nice guy. But why on earth attend church if you're just going to bash it??

Umm does he have a wife there in church with him?

 

[AllieBaba]

No, he's single.
But I think he's banging one of the most active members of the church.