Messiah Bin David Messiah Bin Joseph Messiah For All

[The Original Tree]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

 

[william the wie]

Well the third temple is the Temple of the Anti-Christ where he is declared dead and later declared resurrected. The fourth temple is that of Jesus. likewise the pre-trib rapture is by grace. The Nth rapture (Enoch, Elijah and Moses were raptured prior to the incarnation) other OT saints were raptured with the resurrection of Jesus. The mid-trib rapture in revelation 13 is by works, accepting decapitation rather than take the mark of the beast. Most eschatology is dumbed down to simplify the preaching and not opening this can of worms with new believers.

 

[Shusha]

Thanks for starting the thread, The Original Tree.

I'll start by stating what I said on the other thread which prompted this, in part. Messianic "Jew"s are Christians, not Jews. And should be labelled as Messianic Christians, in my opinion.

And I'll elaborate. There are a number of significant theological concepts held by Christians which are absolutely and fundamentally incompatible with Judaism.

This is largely fine, as far as I'm concerned. There is no reason for Christianity to be compatible with Judaism. And there are many aspects of Christianity which make it a lovely and wonderful faith. Its just not my faith. And its not Judaism.

The concern with using terms such as "Messianic Jews" is the appropriation of Jewish ritual, prayer, language,etc. And with creating confusion (deliberate?) about the separateness of Jewish and Christian belief systems. It seems, very much, to me, another avenue to replacement. And especially dangerous for its surreptitiousness.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

There is ONLY ONE Messiah and that is Jesus Christ, if you disagree you are of The Anti-Christ.

"You do not have to be a Christian
to participate."

If you do NOT agree that there is ONLY ONE Messiah and that is Jesus Christ then you are NOT Christian, you are of The Anti-Christ.

"Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua"

Why should a Child of Jesus Christ be respectful of anyone who REJECTS Jesus Christ as the ONLY Messiah? Why should a Child of Jesus Christ respect agents of The Anti-Christ?

"The Building of The Third Temple"

The Third Temple is for The Anti-Christ who those who get on their knees to praise 24/7 those who REJECT Jesus Christ will then instead ACCEPT The Anti-Christ as THE Messiah and will be ultimately thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire with The False Prophet and The Anti-Christ, that IS in my Christian Bible not sure what's in your bible.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

"Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World."

So you are saying that the above this Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph IS Our Lord? Blasphemy. This creature is NOT The Lamb of God, Jesus Christ The Messiah is The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World. Are you an Evangelical? If so that explains your confusion. I will as a Child of Jesus Christ pray for you, that you find The Light and turn away from your Blasphemy against Jesus Christ Our Lord, The ONE and ONLY Messiah.

 

[rylah]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

Several things You've written are contrary to the Torah.

In Jewish tradition, there's a Messiah ben David and Messiah ben Yosef, called "in sense of", or "being inspected as" - in every generation waiting to be revealed on the condition that the generation deserves redemption.

There're both external and personal levels to each Messiah, it's a whole process expressing through both collective experience, by seemingly mundane things such as politics, science and media;
And through a personal level, by passing of sages of the generation, death of soldiers, and eventually in the person to be anointed the Messiah.

"In sense of" messiah's can be several people in each generation that are accredited to being "in sense of" usually after taking great suffering upon themselves for the sake of the generation, and passing away.
Not every Rabbi who suffered is called that, and not only by the stature in the community, there has to be certain clarity about a decision to take that suffering for the sake of the nation before it comes.
On the other hand, the Holocaust victims, our soldiers, all those who died for the sake of G-d's Name, and even the state of Israel itself, are also considered "in sense of" a Messiah ben Yosef.
While several people were considered "in the sense" of ben-David but failed to fulfill all of the prophecies, therefore Bar Kochba was later called Bar Kuziba.

So there's the holistic level and human being, a real personal level to Messiah.
And as far as I understand Messiah comes once, and stays for eternity, after fulfilling all the positive prophecies. Until all that happens we're still looking forward.

With all that said, many symbols and prophecies have started to fulfill in a miraculous manner that cannot be overlooked - therefore we know, with certainty - redemption begun, it looks like a process stretched over a period of time, so that we always have a chance for Tshuva out of love and mercy, rather than hard justice and fear.

Eventually, it all leads towards good and peace, Christians and Muslims all have part in the progress of redemption, all eventually lead to knowledge of One and Only G-d, and those who help the Jewish nation, participate in the "building" of the Temple will only rejoice, those who don't - will suffer historic justice, each nation for all the pain and humiliation inflicted on the Jewish nation, for the desecration of G-d's Name it caused.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Well the third temple is the Temple of the Anti-Christ where he is declared dead and later declared resurrected. The fourth temple is that of Jesus. likewise the pre-trib rapture is by grace. The Nth rapture (Enoch, Elijah and Moses were raptured prior to the incarnation) other OT saints were raptured with the resurrection of Jesus. The mid-trib rapture in revelation 13 is by works, accepting decapitation rather than take the mark of the beast. Most eschatology is dumbed down to simplify the preaching and not opening this can of worms with new believers.

This crowd the Evangelicals will take the Mark of The Beast, they will accept The Anti-Christ as the Returned Messiah, they will accept this because they have been brainwashed into accepting ANYTHING those who Reject Jesus Christ say. The Evangelicals it seems do not even fully accept that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Messiah if they did they would not want to discuss multiple messiahs. It is simple as a Child of Jesus Christ you either ACCEPT that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Messiah and is Our Lord and through Him we have our Salvation OR you think that Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph or The Purple People Eater or whatever is Our Lord and if you do you are on the other team that ultimately is thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire. I pray for these souls who entertain that there are OTHER Messiahs apart from Our Lord Jesus Christ, I pray that they will see The Light and turn away from the crowd who are Athiest and Godless and Jesus Christ Hating.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I will as a Child of Jesus Christ pray for you

Christians are NOT "children of Jesus Christ." He is "the firstborn of many brethren." He is my BROTHER, not my father.

 

[william the wie]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

There is ONLY ONE Messiah and that is Jesus Christ, if you disagree you are of The Anti-Christ.

"You do not have to be a Christian
to participate."

If you do NOT agree that there is ONLY ONE Messiah and that is Jesus Christ then you are NOT Christian, you are of The Anti-Christ.

"Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua"

Why should a Child of Jesus Christ be respectful of anyone who REJECTS Jesus Christ as the ONLY Messiah? Why should a Child of Jesus Christ respect agents of The Anti-Christ?

"The Building of The Third Temple"

The Third Temple is for The Anti-Christ who those who get on their knees to praise 24/7 those who REJECT Jesus Christ will then instead ACCEPT The Anti-Christ as THE Messiah and will be ultimately thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire with The False Prophet and The Anti-Christ, that IS in my Christian Bible not sure what's in your bible.

some debate around the edges because one third of the Bible is prophecy. fitting all of the pieces of prophecy into a coherent whole is a nightmare. famously Matthew Henry threw up his hands at explaining how more than half a century before Israel would be reborn Israel would beat Russia in a future war. Neither China nor India is mentioned in the Bible but one of them will field the 200 million man army that Jesus will kill on his return. America either is not mentioned or only obliquely in prophecy with the predominant opinion being the US will not be a major political unit when the Anti-Christ is reveled.

 

[william the wie]

Messiah refers to anyone, such as king Saul anonted by God's prophet.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

Several things You've written are contrary to the Torah.

In Jewish tradition, there's a Messiah ben David and Messiah ben Yosef, called "in sense of", or "being inspected as" - in every generation waiting to be revealed on the condition that the generation deserves redemption.

There're both external and personal levels to each Messiah, it's a whole process expressing through both collective experience, by seemingly mundane things such as politics, science and media;
And through a personal level, by passing of sages of the generation, death of soldiers, and eventually in the person to be anointed the Messiah.

"In sense of" messiah's can be several people in each generation that are accredited to being "in sense of" usually after taking great suffering upon themselves for the sake of the generation, and passing away.
Not every Rabbi who suffered is called that, and not only by the stature in the community, there has to be certain clarity about a decision to take that suffering for the sake of the nation before it comes.
On the other hand, the Holocaust victims, our soldiers, all those who died for the sake of G-d's Name, and even the state of Israel itself, are also considered "in sense of" a Messiah ben Yosef.
While several people were considered "in the sense" of ben-David but failed to fulfill all of the prophecies, therefore Bar Kochba was later called Bar Kuziba.

So there's the holistic level and human being, a real personal level to Messiah.
And as far as I understand Messiah comes once, and stays for eternity, after fulfilling all the positive prophecies. Until all that happens we're still looking forward.

With all that said, many symbols and prophecies have started to fulfill in a miraculous manner that cannot be overlooked - therefore we know, with certainty - redemption begun, it looks like a process stretched over a period of time, so that we always have a chance for Tshuva out of love and mercy, rather than hard justice and fear.

Eventually, it all leads towards good and peace, Christians and Muslims all have part in the progress of redemption, all eventually lead to knowledge of One and Only G-d, and those who help the Jewish nation, participate in the "building" of the Temple will only rejoice, those who don't - will suffer historic justice, each nation for all the pain and humiliation inflicted on the Jewish nation, for the desecration of G-d's Name it caused.

"Eventually, it all leads towards good and peace, Christians and Muslims all have part in the progress of redemption, all eventually lead to knowledge of One and Only G-d, and those who help the Jewish nation, participate in the "building" of the Temple will only rejoice, those who don't - will suffer historic justice, each nation for all the pain and humiliation inflicted on the Jewish nation, for the desecration of G-d's Name it caused."

In our Christian Bible it does not lead toward good and peace, it lead toward The Abomination of Desolation. We already know who the One and Only God is, as Christians that is Our Lord Jesus Christ The Messiah. No as Children of Jesus Christ we do NOT participate in the building of The Third Temple, our Bible tells us that is to be the seat of The Anti-Christ, three and a half years into his reign, he will enter a rebuilt Third Temple and from there will announce The Abomination of Desolation which will be him telling the world that he IS Jesus Christ and must be worshipped as Jesus Christ and that in turn leads to Our Lord through Divine Intervention destroying The Anti-Christ and ALL who follow him and they are thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire.

The brainwashed WILL accept The Anti-Christ as Jesus Christ our Bible tells us they will, they will take his mark The Mark of The Beast our Bible tells us they will. This does not lead towards good and peace in the short term it leads to Armageddon, but in the long term Post-Armageddon it does lead to everlasting good and peace but not for those who have been deceived by The Man of Sin into thinking he is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Messiah refers to anyone, such as king Saul anonted by God's prophet.

But there is only ONE Messiah for Christians, Jesus Christ The Messiah who was put to death on The Cross. I am not about to Reject Jesus Christ for ANYONE.

 

[rylah]

I will as a Child of Jesus Christ pray for you

Christians are NOT "children of Jesus Christ." He is "the firstborn of many brethren." He is my BROTHER, not my father.

hopa!
I remember an Alan Watts talk, he said something very similar.
Can't quote exactly, but in the sense that Romans couldn't quiet digest neither Jews nor monotheism.
It was too much to deal with a whole nation of sons of G-d that were so stubborn and unbending.
So they also decided - he was the only son of G-d, and no one else, that's it.

Watts of course presented this in his own very unique charismatic manner.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

There is ONLY ONE Messiah and that is Jesus Christ, if you disagree you are of The Anti-Christ.

"You do not have to be a Christian
to participate."

If you do NOT agree that there is ONLY ONE Messiah and that is Jesus Christ then you are NOT Christian, you are of The Anti-Christ.

"Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua"

Why should a Child of Jesus Christ be respectful of anyone who REJECTS Jesus Christ as the ONLY Messiah? Why should a Child of Jesus Christ respect agents of The Anti-Christ?

"The Building of The Third Temple"

The Third Temple is for The Anti-Christ who those who get on their knees to praise 24/7 those who REJECT Jesus Christ will then instead ACCEPT The Anti-Christ as THE Messiah and will be ultimately thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire with The False Prophet and The Anti-Christ, that IS in my Christian Bible not sure what's in your bible.

some debate around the edges because one third of the Bible is prophecy. fitting all of the pieces of prophecy into a coherent whole is a nightmare. famously Matthew Henry threw up his hands at explaining how more than half a century before Israel would be reborn Israel would beat Russia in a future war. Neither China nor India is mentioned in the Bible but one of them will field the 200 million man army that Jesus will kill on his return. America either is not mentioned or only obliquely in prophecy with the predominant opinion being the US will not be a major political unit when the Anti-Christ is reveled.

How do you get India? I agree about China, they logically could field a 200 million man army, not sure about India so you will have to elaborate, however that 200 million man army is The Anti-Christ army and I am not sure if China or India are The Anti-Christ Nation. The United States of America is more logical as Mystery, Babylon, New York City primarily Manhattan Island is more logical as The Whore of Babylon, I will elaborate more about my theory on this after I have had a sleep, getting tired right now. If you think that America will not be a major political until when The Anti-Christ is revealed does that mean you think America will have been destroyed or why would America be out of action when The Anti-Christ is revealed?

 

[rylah]

Messiah refers to anyone, such as king Saul anonted by God's prophet.

But there is only ONE Messiah for Christians, Jesus Christ The Messiah who was put to death on The Cross. I am not about to Reject Jesus Christ for ANYONE.

That's because You project foreign meanings into words from another language.
According to the original Hebrew definition, what William said is 100% correct.

 

[rylah]

I wanted to start this thread first, to Thank The Creator & The Jewish Nation for Being The Vessel Of God to bring us, The Word Of God.

I want to thank God for Messiah who is called The Word of God, and again Thank The Jewish Nation for being The Vessel through which Immanuel Messiah Bin Joseph came in to this world, to offer Himself up as The Lamb of God who takes away The Sins of The World.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Messiah. The Prophecies regarding His 2nd Coming and The Scriptures. Discussion of The Man Of Sorrows, Messiah Bin Joseph who offered Himself as a once and forever sacrifice for Israel, for Gentiles and The Whole World.

I would like to discuss The Jewish and Gentile views of Messiah Bin Joseph, Messiah Bin David, The Building of The Third Temple, The Throne of David in Jerusalem, and the coming Kingdom of God. The Last 7 Years Of Prophecy as wrotten in The Book Of Daniel and all related End Time Prophecies.

You do not have to be a Christian
to participate. You do not have to be a Jew to participate. Just be curious and respectful of different views of Yahshua, and discuss and learn in Love with one another.

I will not offer an opening view, but ask you to
tell me what your views are. I ask so you may answer. And when you answer I will ask.

This is how discussions are born. Shall we begin?

Several things You've written are contrary to the Torah.

In Jewish tradition, there's a Messiah ben David and Messiah ben Yosef, called "in sense of", or "being inspected as" - in every generation waiting to be revealed on the condition that the generation deserves redemption.

There're both external and personal levels to each Messiah, it's a whole process expressing through both collective experience, by seemingly mundane things such as politics, science and media;
And through a personal level, by passing of sages of the generation, death of soldiers, and eventually in the person to be anointed the Messiah.

"In sense of" messiah's can be several people in each generation that are accredited to being "in sense of" usually after taking great suffering upon themselves for the sake of the generation, and passing away.
Not every Rabbi who suffered is called that, and not only by the stature in the community, there has to be certain clarity about a decision to take that suffering for the sake of the nation before it comes.
On the other hand, the Holocaust victims, our soldiers, all those who died for the sake of G-d's Name, and even the state of Israel itself, are also considered "in sense of" a Messiah ben Yosef.
While several people were considered "in the sense" of ben-David but failed to fulfill all of the prophecies, therefore Bar Kochba was later called Bar Kuziba.

So there's the holistic level and human being, a real personal level to Messiah.
And as far as I understand Messiah comes once, and stays for eternity, after fulfilling all the positive prophecies. Until all that happens we're still looking forward.

With all that said, many symbols and prophecies have started to fulfill in a miraculous manner that cannot be overlooked - therefore we know, with certainty - redemption begun, it looks like a process stretched over a period of time, so that we always have a chance for Tshuva out of love and mercy, rather than hard justice and fear.

Eventually, it all leads towards good and peace, Christians and Muslims all have part in the progress of redemption, all eventually lead to knowledge of One and Only G-d, and those who help the Jewish nation, participate in the "building" of the Temple will only rejoice, those who don't - will suffer historic justice, each nation for all the pain and humiliation inflicted on the Jewish nation, for the desecration of G-d's Name it caused.

"Eventually, it all leads towards good and peace, Christians and Muslims all have part in the progress of redemption, all eventually lead to knowledge of One and Only G-d, and those who help the Jewish nation, participate in the "building" of the Temple will only rejoice, those who don't - will suffer historic justice, each nation for all the pain and humiliation inflicted on the Jewish nation, for the desecration of G-d's Name it caused."

In our Christian Bible it does not lead toward good and peace, it lead toward The Abomination of Desolation. We already know who the One and Only God is, as Christians that is Our Lord Jesus Christ The Messiah. No as Children of Jesus Christ we do NOT participate in the building of The Third Temple, our Bible tells us that is to be the seat of The Anti-Christ, three and a half years into his reign, he will enter a rebuilt Third Temple and from there will announce The Abomination of Desolation which will be him telling the world that he IS Jesus Christ and must be worshipped as Jesus Christ and that in turn leads to Our Lord through Divine Intervention destroying The Anti-Christ and ALL who follow him and they are thrown into The Eternal Lake of Fire.

The brainwashed WILL accept The Anti-Christ as Jesus Christ our Bible tells us they will, they will take his mark The Mark of The Beast our Bible tells us they will. This does not lead towards good and peace in the short term it leads to Armageddon, but in the long term Post-Armageddon it does lead to everlasting good and peace but not for those who have been deceived by The Man of Sin into thinking he is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

You have Your bible, Muslims have their Quran, I have my Torah.

Here's the catch - some Christians think there will be a false messiah, after which will come Christ.
Muslims too think there will be a false messiah, and that Christ too will come but not as a messiah, and break all crosses. It's all replacement theology on top of another, leading only to confrontation

Only one nation is sure that G-d does everything perfect from scratch, that G-d does no half jobs, and needs no 2nd or 3rd attempts. That's incomprehensible.

It doesn't matter, at the end of the day we need only one real messiah, to fulfill all prophecies, as written in the original.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I will as a Child of Jesus Christ pray for you

Christians are NOT "children of Jesus Christ." He is "the firstborn of many brethren." He is my BROTHER, not my father.

Do we call Jesus Christ Our Brother? Do we pray to Our Brother? No.

Do you accept that Jesus Christ is ONLY Messiah or do you think there are multiple messiahs?

What does our Bible say who is The Lamb of God?

John 1:29 John 1:36 also 1 Corinthians 5:7 also Psalm 23

Re. Messiah ben Joseph I hold the view that Traditional Christians have and that is that Messiah ben Joseph was not Jesus Christ.

 

[william the wie]

The septuagent is the major problem in interpreting prophecy. The Catholic, Orthodox and Coptic churches used and still use a Greek translation of the Hebraic OT instead of getting back to the original. The Tankhuk (sp) did not reach final agreed up on form until nearly 800 years after the incarnation. And for another six hundred year this translation had portrayed Moses as having horns on his head. The Septuagent was that bad.

 

[The Original Tree]

I never understood replacement.

That is a false doctrine. There are imposter Christian Religions who only have a facade of Christianity washed over something else. The only way to know what they are is to study scripture.

The Church does not replace Israel ever, rather at some point, they are folded in to the same flock. But that is a discussion for things that are to occur after Christ return. God’s Promises to Israel are for Israel.

There is no reason also a Messianic Christian cannot keep The Feasts and Traditions of all that it is to be a Hebrew. Just because a Hebrew who practices Judaism comes to the realization or belief in Messiah does mot mean he cannot go to Synagogue, celebrate Passover. Jesus taught in Synagogue, and he also taught The Law and Prophets.

What Jesus brought that was different was The Law of Grace. What is The Law of Grace? It is Atonement. Atonement is very Jewish. The Atonement Of Jesus though was through a one time sacrifice. He could do this because He was a Lamb without Blemish, The Son of God.
He came as Messiah Bin Joseph, The Suffering Savior. Jesus did not abolish The Law. He fulfilled The Law.

So let’s look at that just a bit.

From Isaiah:

1:11

"The multitude of your sacrifices-- what are they to me?" says the LORD. "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

And further down in 1:18

"Come now, let us settle the matter," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.

Salvation is not something we can do ourselves. It is a gift we receive with a proper heart, a heart of repentance and faith. I believe Christ was The Lamb of God and being God He only needed to sacrifice Himself once and for all.

I also believe Christ was crucified on the very spot, Abraham took Isaac.

The Book Of Revelations

7:13-14

Then one of the twenty-four elders asked me, "Who are these who are clothed in white? Where did they come from?"

"Sir," I answered, "you know." So he replied, "These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Genesis 22:9-13

Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering,
my son." And the two of them went on together. ...

When they arrived at the place where God had told him to go, Abraham built an altar and arranged the wood on it. Then he tied his son, Isaac, and laid him on the altar on top of the wood.

Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son.

But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied.

"Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son.

John 1:29

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

That is my view of Messiah. That is just from my humble layman’s interpretations. There are many references in The Old Testament to Messiah, and I believe Messiah Bin David and Messiah Bin Joseph are one person, one Messiah who had to first be rejected and offered up like Isaac as a sacrifice for the atonement of sin, and because He was spotless was crucified, buried, descended
To Hell not in condemnation but in victory to take the keys of Hell and Defeat Death was resurrected taught many And asceneed after 40 Days to The Father and will return as Messiah Bin David to reign in Jerusalem as King over all The Earth.

Zechariah 12:10

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Thanks for starting the thread, The Original Tree.

I'll start by stating what I said on the other thread which prompted this, in part. Messianic "Jew"s are Christians, not Jews. And should be labelled as Messianic Christians, in my opinion.

And I'll elaborate. There are a number of significant theological concepts held by Christians which are absolutely and fundamentally incompatible with Judaism.

This is largely fine, as far as I'm concerned. There is no reason for Christianity to be compatible with Judaism. And there are many aspects of Christianity which make it a lovely and wonderful faith. Its just not my faith. And its not Judaism.

The concern with using terms such as "Messianic Jews" is the appropriation of Jewish ritual, prayer, language,etc. And with creating confusion (deliberate?) about the separateness of Jewish and Christian belief systems. It seems, very much, to me, another avenue to replacement. And especially dangerous for its surreptitiousness.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Messiah refers to anyone, such as king Saul anonted by God's prophet.

But there is only ONE Messiah for Christians, Jesus Christ The Messiah who was put to death on The Cross. I am not about to Reject Jesus Christ for ANYONE.

That's because You project foreign meanings into words from another language.
According to the original Hebrew definition, what William said is 100% correct.

Okay, but I have never heard anyone personally refer to eg. Saul as The Messiah.