Megachurch Pastor Calls On Christians To Defy COVID-19 Guidelines Even If It Means Death

I am merely wondering why he isn't risking his life and health the same way he is telling his sheep ti risk theirs.

I never interpreted any bible passages I am basing my observations solely on his behavior.

Anyone who tells others to risk their health should be on the front lines risking his own


How do you know he's not?

BTW, during previous pandemics, clergy didn't lock themselves up in their parsonages cowering in fear. And some of them croaked because of the pestilence.
If he was there'd be proof of it.

If he was he'd be encouraging his sheep to do the same and instead of gathering in a large crowd in his church so he could collect their money he'd be leading them in helping others.

But he'll stand there in his big expensive church on stage 20 feet away from his flock while they are crowded together in the pews


Have you even looked for proof in the matter of this preacher? Or are you just assuming?

All I see is him telling people to come to church there are no links in the article about him leading volunteer efforts.

As I said behavior is the true measure of a person's beliefs and his behavior of telling people to come to his church and risk their health and the health of their families tells me all I need to know about him.


The article is a hit piece, not a fair discussion of the man's life. I don't know what this man is doing to help the victims of this pestilence. But your assumption that he is doing "nothing" because of some yellow journalism, is just that, an assumption.

No I am basing my opinions on his behavior in telling people to come to his church and his utter disregard for the health of his "flock".
 

The day that we walk through the valley of the shadow of death we will fear no evil for God is with us. Then he said, ‘fear not because I am with you’

And then the Bible teaches us to be absent from our bodies to be present with the Lord. So like any revolutionary, zealot or pure religious person, death looks to him like a welcome friend.

It is fitting to post this in "Religion and Ethics" with the emphasis on ethics. The pastor has a right to believe as he does, and perhaps even to sacrifice his life for those beliefs. However, he is a charismatic and persuasive person who has a lot of influence with his "flock" Like any group or demographic, you have people who are vulnerable and impressionable who will obey him.

In reading this, I could not help but to think of Jonestown:

https://www.britannica.com/event/Jonestown-massacre
Jonestown
, location of the mass murder-suicide of the California-based Peoples Temple cult at the behest of their charismatic but paranoid leader, Jim Jones, in Jonestown agricultural commune, Guyana, on November 18, 1978. The death toll exceeded 900, making it one of the largest mass deaths in American history.

I am hard pressed to see how Tony Spell is all that different than Jim Jones. Spell uses the power of the pulpit- as did jones- to manipulate and control his followers. Spell is probobly mentally ill, as was Jones and both have or had a need to be in control at all costs.
I find it strange that such a godly man isn't putting his own life on the line by volunteering to help COVID patients.

He should do so and refuse to wear any PPE to prove his assertion that god will not let him die

This guy is a poser and probably a fake too. However I note the long trend of anti-Christians telling Christians:

1. What Jesus knows/thinks/is doing (even though they don't think Jesus is real) and

2. What they should be doing to serve Jesus (even though they don't think Jesus is real)

It's just funny at this point
Did you know there is a book that documents the teachings of Jesus?
Its called The Bible.
In this book the teachings of Jesus are documented.
When, for example, I say to you thats not what Jesus would approve of you doing, It is based on whats written in the bible.
That added to my personal experience ( 8 years catholic grammer school/altar boy/ 4 years catholic high school/several relatives who were nuns/priests)
Thinking whether or not Jesus was real has nothing to do with it.

If you knew the Bible like my husband knew the Bible coming out the Catholic school--color me unimpressed. He did, however, know the cathecism and everything else Catholic.
It's not a question of who knows the Bible better.
Its a question of understanding the teachings of Jesus.

Oh so just understanding the teachings of Jesus. That's it. Like in a theoretical way.

What if Ted Bundy "understood" the teachings of Jesus. Good enough?
Ted Bundy has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.

So you can't answer. Okay, right.
I'm not really interested in playing games with you.
 

The day that we walk through the valley of the shadow of death we will fear no evil for God is with us. Then he said, ‘fear not because I am with you’

And then the Bible teaches us to be absent from our bodies to be present with the Lord. So like any revolutionary, zealot or pure religious person, death looks to him like a welcome friend.

It is fitting to post this in "Religion and Ethics" with the emphasis on ethics. The pastor has a right to believe as he does, and perhaps even to sacrifice his life for those beliefs. However, he is a charismatic and persuasive person who has a lot of influence with his "flock" Like any group or demographic, you have people who are vulnerable and impressionable who will obey him.

In reading this, I could not help but to think of Jonestown:

https://www.britannica.com/event/Jonestown-massacre
Jonestown
, location of the mass murder-suicide of the California-based Peoples Temple cult at the behest of their charismatic but paranoid leader, Jim Jones, in Jonestown agricultural commune, Guyana, on November 18, 1978. The death toll exceeded 900, making it one of the largest mass deaths in American history.

I am hard pressed to see how Tony Spell is all that different than Jim Jones. Spell uses the power of the pulpit- as did jones- to manipulate and control his followers. Spell is probobly mentally ill, as was Jones and both have or had a need to be in control at all costs.
I find it strange that such a godly man isn't putting his own life on the line by volunteering to help COVID patients.

He should do so and refuse to wear any PPE to prove his assertion that god will not let him die

This guy is a poser and probably a fake too. However I note the long trend of anti-Christians telling Christians:

1. What Jesus knows/thinks/is doing (even though they don't think Jesus is real) and

2. What they should be doing to serve Jesus (even though they don't think Jesus is real)

It's just funny at this point
Did you know there is a book that documents the teachings of Jesus?
Its called The Bible.
In this book the teachings of Jesus are documented.
When, for example, I say to you thats not what Jesus would approve of you doing, It is based on whats written in the bible.
That added to my personal experience ( 8 years catholic grammer school/altar boy/ 4 years catholic high school/several relatives who were nuns/priests)
Thinking whether or not Jesus was real has nothing to do with it.

If you knew the Bible like my husband knew the Bible coming out the Catholic school--color me unimpressed. He did, however, know the cathecism and everything else Catholic.
It's not a question of who knows the Bible better.
Its a question of understanding the teachings of Jesus.

Oh so just understanding the teachings of Jesus. That's it. Like in a theoretical way.

What if Ted Bundy "understood" the teachings of Jesus. Good enough?
Ted Bundy has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.

She's got an entire carton of Red Herrings. Fish left over from Friday, you know.
 

The day that we walk through the valley of the shadow of death we will fear no evil for God is with us. Then he said, ‘fear not because I am with you’

And then the Bible teaches us to be absent from our bodies to be present with the Lord. So like any revolutionary, zealot or pure religious person, death looks to him like a welcome friend.

It is fitting to post this in "Religion and Ethics" with the emphasis on ethics. The pastor has a right to believe as he does, and perhaps even to sacrifice his life for those beliefs. However, he is a charismatic and persuasive person who has a lot of influence with his "flock" Like any group or demographic, you have people who are vulnerable and impressionable who will obey him.

In reading this, I could not help but to think of Jonestown:

https://www.britannica.com/event/Jonestown-massacre
Jonestown
, location of the mass murder-suicide of the California-based Peoples Temple cult at the behest of their charismatic but paranoid leader, Jim Jones, in Jonestown agricultural commune, Guyana, on November 18, 1978. The death toll exceeded 900, making it one of the largest mass deaths in American history.

I am hard pressed to see how Tony Spell is all that different than Jim Jones. Spell uses the power of the pulpit- as did jones- to manipulate and control his followers. Spell is probobly mentally ill, as was Jones and both have or had a need to be in control at all costs.
I find it strange that such a godly man isn't putting his own life on the line by volunteering to help COVID patients.

He should do so and refuse to wear any PPE to prove his assertion that god will not let him die

This guy is a poser and probably a fake too. However I note the long trend of anti-Christians telling Christians:

1. What Jesus knows/thinks/is doing (even though they don't think Jesus is real) and

2. What they should be doing to serve Jesus (even though they don't think Jesus is real)

It's just funny at this point
I'm not the one claiming god will protect people from COVID.

These so called religious leaders care so little for the health and well being of their "flocks" that they tell them to intentionally risk their health

And where did I mention Jesus in any thread?

You're telling him how to serve God, the crazy pastor. Again. Anti-Christians are always quickest to do this: interpret Bible passages, speak for God, tell us what Jesus thinks, etc.
Also wrong.

He’s being told his actions are reckless and irresponsible.

He’s being told his actions will jeopardize the health and safety of those who attend his church and those with whom they come into contact.

And he’s being told that there’s nothing in Christian doctrine or dogma compelling religious practice in mass gatherings.

Necessary, warranted, appropriate, and Constitutional precautions concerning the Covid 19 pandemic are neither ‘anti-Christian’ nor ‘anti-religious.’
 
Almighty God held his tremendous Sermon on the Mount before multitudes during a 1st century Leprosy Pandemic.

This isn't "suicide", this is just one preacher's determination that this pandemic is being vastly overhyped.

BTW, Rev. Jim Jones was a devout Religious Leftists in the mold of Jeremiah Wright and Jim Wallis.

Further, categorizing this church as a "megachurch" is inflammatory to say the least. Libs have been denouncing large churches as if that's "bad" somehow.

There are other churches that are also taking a stand against the governmental authorities. The Bible shows that is actually taking a stand against God:

Romans 13:1,2
Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities,+ for there is no authority except by God;+ the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.+ 2 Therefore, whoever opposes* the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves.

Also, this virus is extremely contagious - those people who defy the government's direction to shelter in place will have innocent blood on their hands. They will share the virus with each other, and when they go shopping (etc) give it to others.
Jesus is up there shaking his head. He went around HEALING people, remember? He would not approve of people risking making themselves and others sick just to celebrate him in a large gathering.

I feel bad for believers; for deeply religious people, Easter is a much bigger deal than Christmas. The resurrection, the renewal, the forgiveness. There's the hot cross buns in the community room afterward, too, and the overpowering smell of 50 potted lilies on the steps of the altar, ladies in their new spring dresses and little girls in their new patent leather shoes. Kids all revved up on a belly full of Easter basket candy. Familiar hymns about hope. Easter is nice.

For some people, this is like taking Christmas away from someone who loves it.
Well, both Christmas and Easter are actually pagan holidays - but let those who are part of this world enjoy them - everyone has free will. Hot cross buns have their origin in ancient Babylon. Of course, hot buns are not the primary problem (but note Jeremiah 7:18), it is also the origin of the symbol of the cross.

See:'



Excerpt:

"It becomes apparent, then, that Easter is a pagan name and that the event is associated with a pagan goddess of spring. But let us now go back to the time when Easter got its official start. It was A.D. 325, long after Christ’s resurrection. By now apostasy had set in and there were many false Christians, Christians in name only. The pagan emperor Constantine was one of them. Constantine, who was still chief priest of the Roman pagan religion, assembled a large number of these apostate Christians together at the Council of Nicaea. What was this pagan priest’s motive?

He wanted harmony in religion for political reasons. And so, as the book A General History of Rome tells us, “he combined in his own mind the two hostile faiths rather than balanced them against another—a state of feeling rather than of opinion, which is more common, perhaps, than is generally supposed.” Constantine thus blended the two religions, the Roman pagan religion and apostate Christianity. One of the results was that Constantine decreed that “everywhere the Great Feast of Easter” was to be observed.

This appealed to the pagans, since they had long been used to worshiping a springtime goddess of fruitfulness. To the Greeks and Romans her name was Astarte. The Babylonians had worshiped her by the name Ishtar and the Phoenicians by the name Ashtoreth.

It was natural that the customs and rites pertaining to these springtime goddesses and their worship would surround Easter. Thus archaeologists have uncovered carvings of the fertility goddess Ishtar. They found her holding an egg in her hand and a rabbit at her feet. Thus the book Great Catholic Festivals comments on Easter: “The eating of eggs on this day is said to have come down from pagan usage of the egg as a symbol of fertility.” And The Catholic Encyclopedia says under “Easter”: “The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility.”

Worshipers of the springtime goddess Ashtoreth had a custom of eating cakes in her honor. They called the goddess “queen of heaven.” Of Ashtoreth and her worshipers the Bible says: “The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink-offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” (Jer. 7:18, AS) Jehovah’s anger was kindled against his people whenever they adopted these pagan customs. But those who adopted the pagan Easter festival were not interested in following the Bible. They Christianized the pagan cakes, so they thought, by marking a cross on the top of them, thus the hot cross buns."

Of course, Easter is off topic but you brought it up and Easter Sunday is in 2 days.

More Jehovah’s Witness propaganda.
 

The day that we walk through the valley of the shadow of death we will fear no evil for God is with us. Then he said, ‘fear not because I am with you’

And then the Bible teaches us to be absent from our bodies to be present with the Lord. So like any revolutionary, zealot or pure religious person, death looks to him like a welcome friend.

It is fitting to post this in "Religion and Ethics" with the emphasis on ethics. The pastor has a right to believe as he does, and perhaps even to sacrifice his life for those beliefs. However, he is a charismatic and persuasive person who has a lot of influence with his "flock" Like any group or demographic, you have people who are vulnerable and impressionable who will obey him.

In reading this, I could not help but to think of Jonestown:

https://www.britannica.com/event/Jonestown-massacre
Jonestown
, location of the mass murder-suicide of the California-based Peoples Temple cult at the behest of their charismatic but paranoid leader, Jim Jones, in Jonestown agricultural commune, Guyana, on November 18, 1978. The death toll exceeded 900, making it one of the largest mass deaths in American history.

I am hard pressed to see how Tony Spell is all that different than Jim Jones. Spell uses the power of the pulpit- as did jones- to manipulate and control his followers. Spell is probobly mentally ill, as was Jones and both have or had a need to be in control at all costs.

This is one of those non-denominational churches and I can guarantee you this loon is not ordained. So. When the really crazy Muslim sects led by the really crazy imams say their stuff, you're also all over them right?

I am really looking forward to the start of Ramadan on April 23rd


Seems the Saudias care more about their flock than Donald Trump cares about his. See he date of this link: Feb 27, 2020

They only banned foreigners from entering. Yes indeed Mr Trump would probably approve.
 
Wrong.

The Covid 19 protocols in no manner ‘violate’ religious liberty or expression.

This has nothing to do with the First Amendment or Constitution.

Indeed, there’s nothing in Christian doctrine or dogma which mandates Christians worship in large gatherings – particularly given the fact that during the advent Christianity worship consisted of small gatherings in private homes.


Maybe you should explain that to the French people who are planning to spend literally millions to repair the large Notre Dame cathedral that was recently damaged in a fire- explain to them that they should just be worshipping Almighty God in small gatherings in their homes. Or the folks at the Liberal Megachurch in Manhattan, St. John the Divine, to abandon the completion of their building?

As I just said in another thread: These cats ALWAYS know exactly what Jesus is thinking and they always know exactly what Christians should do.

It's weird but funny

these liberal non-Christians always zealously pursue expert status in Christian theology. It demonstrates their torment
 

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