Mark Levin’s Liberty and Tyranny trashed by a conservative

Bfgrn

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Wednesday, April 21, 2010
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Liberty and Tyranny and Epistemic Closure [Jim Manzi]

Jonah notes Ross Douthat’s very interesting post, in which Ross had this to say:

Conservative domestic policy would be in better shape if conservative magazines and conservative columnists were more willing to call out Republican politicians (and, to a lesser extent, conservative entertainers) for offering bromides instead of substance, and for pandering instead of grappling with real policy questions.

I thought some about this over the past few days, and took this as a direct challenge.

Here goes.

I started to read Mark Levin’s massive bestseller Liberty and Tyranny a number of months ago as debate swirled around it. I wasn’t expecting a PhD thesis (and in fact had hoped to write a post supporting the book as a well-reasoned case for certain principles that upset academics just because it didn’t employ a bunch of pseudo-intellectual tropes). But when I waded into the first couple of chapters, I found that — while I had a lot of sympathy for many of its basic points — it seemed to all but ignore the most obvious counter-arguments that could be raised to any of its assertions. This sounds to me like a pretty good plain English meaning of epistemic closure. The problem with this, of course, is that unwillingness to confront the strongest evidence or arguments contrary to our own beliefs normally means we fail to learn quickly, and therefore persist in correctable error.

I’m not expert on many topics the book addresses, so I flipped to its treatment of a subject that I’ve spent some time studying — global warming — in order to see how it treated a controversy in which I’m at least familiar with the various viewpoints and some of the technical detail.

It was awful.

Whole article...

James Manzi is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.
 
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Yessir, we conservatives goosestep lockstep and don't do any independent thinking and never question authority or think beyond surface levels.


Also, notice the catfight is between two guys named Levin and Goldberg. We don't allow minorities either.
 

boedicca

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At least the OP is being consistent.

It's just like the way the Lefties think the Tea Party Movement is controlled by some big organization. It's inconceivable that people can think and act for themselves.
 

geauxtohell

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M'eh. You can't blame Levin for capitalizing on right-wing outrage. It's a pretty easy formula: write a book full of tripe, banality, rhetoric, and name calling, promote it on the proper conservative talk shows, release it, watch it get bought in bulk and given away by conservative movements and end up on the bargain bin at ever Barnes and Nobel in a few months.

It does nothing for being an intellectual or legitimate public debate at large, but it sure is profitable.

Hell, Ann Coulter has essentially sold the same book with a different binder to righties six times over.
 
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Bfgrn

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Yessir, we conservatives goosestep lockstep and don't do any independent thinking and never question authority or think beyond surface levels.


Also, notice the catfight is between two guys named Levin and Goldberg. We don't allow minorities either.
Goosestep is a proper phrase. Any right wing 'individual' is free to express their 'individual' beliefs, just as long as those beliefs strictly conform to the group speak, otherwise, they are ostracized, condemned and fired, like David Frum.




Groupthink at National Review

April 23rd, 2010 at 12:32 pm by David Frum

How wonderful to return to a free country, I thought as I stepped off the plane from Beijing at Washington Dulles. No more censorship, no more official lies, no more kowtowing to high officials who gained power by their mindless repetition of party dogma…

Then alas I opened my browser and read the dump-on-Manzi comments on NRO’s The Corner. Manzi had deviated from the One Correct Way of Mark Levin Thought, and all his former colleagues had been summoned together to Denounce and Struggle Against Him.

.

Groupthink at National Review | FrumForum
 
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DiamondDave

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Wow... another uber partisan trying an attack on an entertainer in some way as to link it to anyone they consider their opposition... color me shocked, NOT
 

Liability

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M'eh. You can't blame Levin for capitalizing on right-wing outrage. It's a pretty easy formula: write a book full of tripe, banality, rhetoric, and name calling, promote it on the proper conservative talk shows, release it, watch it get bought in bulk and given away by conservative movements and end up on the bargain bin at ever Barnes and Nobel in a few months.

It does nothing for being an intellectual or legitimate public debate at large, but it sure is profitable.

Hell, Ann Coulter has essentially sold the same book with a different binder to righties six times over.
Nonsense. You are letting your bias do the talking. This is not a good policy.

In fact, the work by Mark Levin is of a very high caliber.

His book does further intellectual and legitimate debate 9at large and otherwise).

Ms. Coulter has never written a book anywhere comparable to the work by Mark Levin.

And if you read Mark Levin's book and came away thinking it is full of tripe and name calling, then your reading comprehension is dubious at best.

Had you (or anyone else) chosen to be a bit less partisan in your criticism, there are surely some valid grounds to criticize portions of Levin's book. But you didn't land on any of them. Neither did Douthat in his piece featured in the always biased prose of Bfgrn, the partisan hack author of the thread's OP.

And, oh, by the way, the Levin tome was a long time #1 NY Slimes BESTSELLER. Even today,
# Tower.com Sales Rank: #225 in Books (See Top 100 Books Bestsellers)
# #4 in Politics & Current Events (See Top 100 Politics & Current Events Bestsellers)
# #1 in General (See Top 100 General Bestsellers)
per TOWER.

Amazon has it (now) at:
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #279 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)

Popular in these categories: (What's this?)
#2 in Books > Nonfiction > Politics > Political Parties
#4 in Books > Nonfiction > Social Sciences > Political Science > Political Doctrines > Conservatism
And, as you know, the spineless, gutless, hypocritical libs over at the NY Slimes didn't even ever find the temerity to provide a review of the book. How un-surprising. It's interesting that it sold well over a million volumes.
 
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Does Bfgrn know the meaning of Irony? And all due respect to Zoom Boing, it is not the opposite of wrinkly.

He is airing a 6 way catfight between conservatives as proof that the cooperative mind is unable to handle independent thought or criticism.

This is not the first time cat fights like this haven't flashed out of National Reviews corner either.

Anyway, it is a good read, and if Bfgrn encourages liberals to look into it, more power to him.
 

Soggy in NOLA

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Yessir, we conservatives goosestep lockstep and don't do any independent thinking and never question authority or think beyond surface levels.


Also, notice the catfight is between two guys named Levin and Goldberg. We don't allow minorities either.
Damn Jews.
 

Liability

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Levin is a whiney, annoying little douchebag.
He doesn't whine at all. He only annoys fucks like you because you guys are the whining little pussies who get irritated by the truth. And you are obviously the douche bag. Not him.

Your score for that one brief stupid post of yours, oh for three.

:thup:
 

CrusaderFrank

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M'eh. You can't blame Levin for capitalizing on right-wing outrage. It's a pretty easy formula: write a book full of tripe, banality, rhetoric, and name calling, promote it on the proper conservative talk shows, release it, watch it get bought in bulk and given away by conservative movements and end up on the bargain bin at ever Barnes and Nobel in a few months.

It does nothing for being an intellectual or legitimate public debate at large, but it sure is profitable.

Hell, Ann Coulter has essentially sold the same book with a different binder to righties six times over.
You make a good point, as usual. Levin's book is nothing like say,

"Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" by Dem Shinging Star Al Franken, or

"Know Your Power: A Message to Americas Daughters" by Nancy Pelosi which I understand just cracked into a 4 digits figure in total sales or

"The Good Fight" by Harry Reid or

"Positively American" by Sen Chuck Schumer which nearly cracked the 5 digit mark in sales !!!!!!!

Yeah, those Conservative books that sell millions just write themselves.

Moron.
 
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Mr Clean

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Levin is a whiney, annoying little douchebag.
He doesn't whine at all. He only annoys fucks like you because you guys are the whining little pussies who get irritated by the truth. And you are obviously the douche bag. Not him.

Your score for that one brief stupid post of yours, oh for three.

:thup:

Fuck you, I don't care what you think, he's a whiney douchebag.
 
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Bfgrn

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Does Bfgrn know the meaning of Irony? And all due respect to Zoom Boing, it is not the opposite of wrinkly.

He is airing a 6 way catfight between conservatives as proof that the cooperative mind is unable to handle independent thought or criticism.

This is not the first time cat fights like this haven't flashed out of National Reviews corner either.

Anyway, it is a good read, and if Bfgrn encourages liberals to look into it, more power to him.
A VERY good read Baruch Menachem. I strongly encourage EVERYONE to read the article. Jim Manzi exposes Mark Levin as a right wing pea brain who spews right 'wingnuttery' and 'willful ignorance'.


Last 2 paragraphs of the article:



But what evidence does Levin present for any of this amazing incompetence or conspiracy beyond that already cited? None. He simply moves on to criticisms of proposed solutions. This is wingnuttery.

There are many reasons to write a book. One view is that a book is just another consumer product, and if people want to buy jalapeno-and-oyster flavored ice cream, then companies will sell it to them. If the point of Liberty and Tyranny was to sell a lot of copies, it was obviously an excellent book. Further, despite what intellectuals will often claim, most people (including me) don’t really want their assumptions challenged most of the time (e.g., the most intense readers of automobile ads are people who have just bought the advertised car, because they want to validate their already-made decision). I get that people often want comfort food when they read. Fair enough. But if you’re someone who read this book in order to help you form an honest opinion about global warming, then you were suckered. Liberty and Tyranny does not present a reasoned overview of the global warming debate; it doesn’t even present a reasoned argument for a specific point of view, other than that of willful ignorance. This section of the book is an almost perfect example of epistemic closure.
 

mikey481516

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Good article.. I think most are missing the point. The article is not an attack on Conservatism, nor Liberalism. The point is, if you want real evidence, don't read this book. Or if you do, be sure to read An Inconvenient Truth as well.

Don't be so think-skinned my Conservative chums.
 

The T

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M'eh. You can't blame Levin for capitalizing on right-wing outrage. It's a pretty easy formula: write a book full of tripe, banality, rhetoric, and name calling, promote it on the proper conservative talk shows, release it, watch it get bought in bulk and given away by conservative movements and end up on the bargain bin at ever Barnes and Nobel in a few months.

It does nothing for being an intellectual or legitimate public debate at large, but it sure is profitable.

Hell, Ann Coulter has essentially sold the same book with a different binder to righties six times over.
Nonsense. You are letting your bias do the talking. This is not a good policy.

In fact, the work by Mark Levin is of a very high caliber.

His book does further intellectual and legitimate debate 9at large and otherwise).

Ms. Coulter has never written a book anywhere comparable to the work by Mark Levin.

And if you read Mark Levin's book and came away thinking it is full of tripe and name calling, then your reading comprehension is dubious at best.

Had you (or anyone else) chosen to be a bit less partisan in your criticism, there are surely some valid grounds to criticize portions of Levin's book. But you didn't land on any of them. Neither did Douthat in his piece featured in the always biased prose of Bfgrn, the partisan hack author of the thread's OP.

And, oh, by the way, the Levin tome was a long time #1 NY Slimes BESTSELLER. Even today,
# Tower.com Sales Rank: #225 in Books (See Top 100 Books Bestsellers)
# #4 in Politics & Current Events (See Top 100 Politics & Current Events Bestsellers)
# #1 in General (See Top 100 General Bestsellers)
per TOWER.

Amazon has it (now) at:
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #279 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)

Popular in these categories: (What's this?)
#2 in Books > Nonfiction > Politics > Political Parties
#4 in Books > Nonfiction > Social Sciences > Political Science > Political Doctrines > Conservatism
And, as you know, the spineless, gutless, hypocritical libs over at the NY Slimes didn't even ever find the temerity to provide a review of the book. How un-surprising. It's interesting that it sold well over a million volumes.
And of course it's a History lesson that these dweeb leftists cannot stand since the dweebs are so hell-bent upon revising the history of this Republic.

Mark did a wonderful job at showing the history in what he wrote, as he does in all his works. he doen't leave you wondering why. it's right there.

"Men In Black" was another great work which described the Court...and his latest of Abe Lincoln's Gettysburg Address started by his father is the latest entry.

(And I can tell you that Obama is NO Abe Lincoln by any stretch as he is oft compared to for NO apparent reason I can name).

Let these dweebs continue to try to bring Mark down. They will continue to fail in epic proportions.
 

The T

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Levin is a whiney, annoying little douchebag.
He doesn't whine at all. He only annoys fucks like you because you guys are the whining little pussies who get irritated by the truth. And you are obviously the douche bag. Not him.

Your score for that one brief stupid post of yours, oh for three.

:thup:

Fuck you, I don't care what you think, he's a whiney douchebag.
POT? Meet kettle. Oh? And Fuck *YOU* too. Make ya feel better Mr. Dirt?
 

The T

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M'eh. You can't blame Levin for capitalizing on right-wing outrage. It's a pretty easy formula: write a book full of tripe, banality, rhetoric, and name calling, promote it on the proper conservative talk shows, release it, watch it get bought in bulk and given away by conservative movements and end up on the bargain bin at ever Barnes and Nobel in a few months.

It does nothing for being an intellectual or legitimate public debate at large, but it sure is profitable.

Hell, Ann Coulter has essentially sold the same book with a different binder to righties six times over.
You make a good point, as usual. Levin's book is nothing like say,

"Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" by Dem Shinging Star Al Franken, or

"Know Your Power: A Message to Americas Daughters" by Nancy Pelosi which I understand just cracked into a 4 digits figure is total sales or

"The Good Fight" by Harry Reid or

"Positively American" by Sen Chuck Schumer which nearly cracked the 5 digit mark in sales !!!!!!!

Yeah, those Conservative books that sell millions just write themselves.

Moron.
Jealousy gets them nowhere Frank. But then why would anyone buy books written by liars? :eusa_think:
 

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