Man accused of Child Abuse for removing child from Ritilin...

[insein]

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Living/US/mental_illness_treatment_kids_040607-1.html

Pills vs. Talking
When It Comes to Mental Illness, Parents Face Dilemmas Over Medication, Talk Therapy

By Bryan Robinson


June 7, 2004 — When Chad Taylor noticed his son was apparently experiencing serious side effects from Ritalin prescribed for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, he decided to take the boy off the medication. Now, he says he may be accused of child abuse.

In February, 12-year-old Daniel began displaying some symptoms that his father suspected were related to the use of Ritalin.

"He was losing weight, wasn't sleeping, wasn't eating," Taylor told ABC News affiliate KOAT-TV in New Mexico. "[He] just wasn't Daniel."

So Taylor took Daniel off Ritalin, against his doctor's wishes. And though Taylor noticed Daniel was sleeping better and his appetite had returned, his teachers complained about the return of his disruptive behavior. Daniel seemed unable to sit still and was inattentive. His teachers ultimately learned that he was no longer taking Ritalin.

School officials reported Daniel's parents to New Mexico's Department of Children, Youth and Families.Then a detective and social worker made a home visit.

"The detective told me if I did not medicate my son, I would be arrested for child abuse and neglect," Taylor said.

A spokesman for New Mexico's Department of Children, Youth and Families told KOAT-TV that they could not comment on the case because of state confidentiality laws. John Francis, a detective for the Rio Rancho Department of Public Safety, said that Taylor was not threatened but told KOAT-TV that parents could be charged in situations like his.

"People can be charged with child abuse, child neglect or various other crimes involving a child," he said.


continued very extensively in the link above

What the hell is this country coming too? No offense to any teachers here, but fucking deal with it!!! Kids are disruptive and unattentive. You fucking deal with it. Its your job. I have a friend who is a teacher and she complains all day about the kids being bad, but she deals with it and disciplines them. Teachers are getting paid too much to be just dismissing bad kids nowadays.

And whats the deal with charging the father with child abuse? Has communism come home? Can we not even decide what is best for our children's well being short of endangering their lives? This is not an endangerment to the child's life. It is inconviencing a lazy teachers work day. I'm sickened by this story. Absolutely sickened and i don't even have kids yet.

 

[NewGuy]

You shouldn't post this. It goes against both parties.

You are now joining the ranks of those understanding the collective government is NOT here for our best interest anymore.

 

[5stringJeff]

insein, I agree, this is total BS. While I think some parents are bad disciplinarians and leave a lot on the teacher's lap, I also think that WAY too many boys are being drugged throughout grade school, to the detriment of their lives. Moreover, the parent should be involved in the medical decisions of his/her child. If the father saw that the Ritalin (a questionable drug in the first place, IMO) was having negative side effects on his child, it should be his option to take his son off of it. The doctor only sees the child for a little bit; the parent see him everyday and his better qualified to make judgments about the side effects of medicine.

And NewGuy, that remark is not true. Republicans (at least the conservatives among us) do not see government as the solution to any problems, save those of national defense and other essential federal functions. This is not one of them.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by gop_jeff

And NewGuy, that remark is not true. Republicans (at least the conservatives among us) do not see government as the solution to any problems, save those of national defense and other essential federal functions. This is not one of them.

Define "essential federal functions", then.

-And if you don't mind, if you could show Constitutional support for that capacity, I would be happy to see it.

 

[Annie]

Ok, I'm one.

What the hell is this country coming too? No offense to any teachers here, but fucking deal with it!!! Kids are disruptive and unattentive. You fucking deal with it. Its your job. I have a friend who is a teacher and she complains all day about the kids being bad, but she deals with it and disciplines them. Teachers are getting paid too much to be just dismissing bad kids nowadays. insein

I agree with you and I believe, newguy. Too many boys are being medicated and girls too. With that said, teachers at least in Illinois, cannot make diagnosis. You will lose certification and are open to lawsuits if you do.

However, it is parents that are rushing their children to the pediatricians for medications to make them 'behave' rather than spending the time it takes to enforce rules, make them do chores, act civil to others, do homework, and check up on them.

On the other hand, there are and always have been a very small number of children that cannot learn, because they cannot pay attention. (My take would be about 1 in 50-75). These are mostly good kids with good parents. They want to learn, but anything diverts their attention. Really this takes a pediatric neurologist and extensive testing to make a good diagnosis. Most parents want to deal with their pediatrician for $75 and a script.

In any case, I would be of the mindset that if the parents choose not to medicate, that should be their right. They ultimately are the best arbitar for their children.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

I agree with you insein, except on the part that teachers get paid too much. Teachers do not get paid nearly enough for what they do. The only state that pays well is Pennsylvania.

Starting salary for a teacher in San Diego is only about $40,000. But when you take into account that the cost of living is high and median housing prices are $450,000. You see that teachers really do not make enough.

And one thing to add to what Kathianne said is that a lot of parents get benefits from the government if they're kids have to be on medication. It's a shame, but there are tons of cases out there where the kid has no problems but the parent is so persistent that a doctor will finally recommend something just so the parents get some sort of income from the government.

 

[fuzzykitten99]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I agree with you insein, except on the part that teachers get paid too much. Teachers do not get paid nearly enough for what they do. The only state that pays well is Pennsylvania.

Starting salary for a teacher in San Diego is only about $40,000. But when you take into account that the cost of living is high and median housing prices are $450,000. You see that teachers really do not make enough.

And one thing to add to what Kathianne said is that a lot of parents get benefits from the government if they're kids have to be on medication. It's a shame, but there are tons of cases out there where the kid has no problems but the parent is so persistent that a doctor will finally recommend something just so the parents get some sort of income from the government.

i thought medicating a child when it wasn't necessary is child abuse or even illegal, considering they are not legal adults, and cannot decide for themselves whether or not to take the meds.

my brother was diagnosed with ADD, and he actually has it. I was diagnosed later in my life, but neither of us are on meds. We were lucky to have great teachers who have been patient with us. Class size is not even an issue. I graduated in a class of 798 in 1999. The school population the day i graduated was 3012. At my Senior all-night party, I saw kids I had never met before in the 3 years I attended that school. Our average class size was 38 kids. Yet the graduating average for the class of 1999 was a 3.2. The kids I went to school with took responsibility for their own learning. The teacher cannot force the info to be absorbed and remembered for the tests. You had to find your own way of doing that. The class size argument is a false one.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Who said anything about class-size? Unless it's in the full article, which I did not read.

I graduated in a class of 525 where the school campus was 2600. A normal class size is 30 where honestly, that is too many. I do agree that at high school age it is up to the student to obsorb the info. because the teacher can only do so much before it is finally up to the student in the end.

But to my understanding, this was not high school. At a younger age, the teacher really does need to take the reins and be in charge to ensure that students are learning because that molds the students for high school eventually.

When I went to elementary school and middle school, classes were very over crowded even back then at about 25-30 students per classroom.

The desired number is 15 students per classroom where teaching can be effective, according to my mother, who is a teacher.

I'm not implying that class size has anything to do with this. As I stated above I agree with insein other than on teacher wages.

 

[007]

Originally posted by insein
"The detective told me if I did not medicate my son, I would be arrested for child abuse and neglect," Taylor said.

This is utter bull shit. This is hitlery clinton's "it takes a village" communistic mentality at it's best. It's taking away ALL decision making about the kid and putting in the hands of BIG GOVERNMENT! And that's BULL SHIT!

 

[fuzzykitten99]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Who said anything about class-size? Unless it's in the full article, which I did not read.

I graduated in a class of 525 where the school campus was 2600. A normal class size is 30 where honestly, that is too many. I do agree that at high school age it is up to the student to obsorb the info. because the teacher can only do so much before it is finally up to the student in the end.

But to my understanding, this was not high school. At a younger age, the teacher really does need to take the reins and be in charge to ensure that students are learning because that molds the students for high school eventually.

When I went to elementary school and middle school, classes were very over crowded even back then at about 25-30 students per classroom.

The desired number is 15 students per classroom where teaching can be effective, according to my mother, who is a teacher.

I'm not implying that class size has anything to do with this. As I stated above I agree with insein other than on teacher wages.

it's not that it originallly was said by someone, it's that i figured someone would bring it up as a part of the reasons why kids don't learn well. it's almost always brought up in conversations like this.

 

[dmp]

If my kid acts up in class, the teacher tells me, and my daughter gets a spanking. I'd put money on her 'not' acting up more than twice.

Kids are often 'not' taught concepts like 'discipline of their mouths/bodies'. It's easier to medicate them I'd guess..

 

[nycflasher]

Man, that is fucked up!!!
As someone who has taken ritalyn-like drugs and as someone who is also the son of a psychiatrist, I can say from experience that drugs are not the only answer.

Rit. is an amphetamine!
Take your kid off speed and get charged with child-abuse?

I took addarol(sp?) and went off it after like 5 days because it made me more jittery than 5 cups of coffee would.

Most likely, if he is extremely hyperactive which he seems like he is(ADHD vs. ADD) there are alternative, similar drugs that might work better.

Or perhaps a loving father's dedication is worth more than any drug!

DCF has too much power to be abusing it like this. They need to have the power to immediately pull kids from unsafe households, but this doesn't sound like one...

 

[insein]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I agree with you insein, except on the part that teachers get paid too much. Teachers do not get paid nearly enough for what they do. The only state that pays well is Pennsylvania.

Starting salary for a teacher in San Diego is only about $40,000. But when you take into account that the cost of living is high and median housing prices are $450,000. You see that teachers really do not make enough.

And one thing to add to what Kathianne said is that a lot of parents get benefits from the government if they're kids have to be on medication. It's a shame, but there are tons of cases out there where the kid has no problems but the parent is so persistent that a doctor will finally recommend something just so the parents get some sort of income from the government.

The unions in PA are out of control. I think we have at least 1 district on strike every year.

And yes some parents are sick in the head. That is why less government handouts the less people who want to find a way to cheat the system.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Pale Rider
This is utter bull shit. This is hitlery clinton's "it takes a village" communistic mentality at it's best. It's taking away ALL decision making about the kid and putting in the hands of BIG GOVERNMENT! And that's BULL SHIT!

As well as the parenting of the parents. No wonder we have soo many fucked up parents that raise kids in this country.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Originally posted by fuzzykitten99
it's not that it originallly was said by someone, it's that i figured someone would bring it up as a part of the reasons why kids don't learn well. it's almost always brought up in conversations like this.

Ahhh... gotcha. I think it's a mixture of over-crowded classrooms and a whole lot of other junk.

The education system needs a lot of help from inside and outside.

 

[insein]

I liked your other avatar brneyedgrl. But alas...

 

[brneyedgrl80]

 

[insein]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80

:shocked:

 

[Bullypulpit]

We've gotten into the habit of thinking a pill will fix everything. As for Ritalin, if the kid was having side effects, even mninmal side effects, let alone the ones this child was having, his parents had every right to stop giving him the medication.

"Child abuse and neglect..." what utter bullshit. Especially when children's services won't lift a finger to take kids away from their junkie/rummie parents who beat the shit outta them every day and and ignore them the rest of the time.

I'll contribute to Mr. Taylor's legal defense fund...Where do I sign up?

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
We've gotten into the habit of thinking a pill will fix everything. As for Ritalin, if the kid was having side effects, even mninmal side effects, let alone the ones this child was having, his parents had every right to stop giving him the medication.

"Child abuse and neglect..." what utter bullshit. Especially when children's services won't lift a finger to take kids away from their junkie/rummie parents who beat the shit outta them every day and and ignore them the rest of the time.

I'll contribute to Mr. Taylor's legal defense fund...Where do I sign up?

OMG I agree with Bully on something.