LWOP and One Strike for Sexual Abuse

Madeline

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There's a petition drive in California to install Life Without Parole after a single conviction for sexual abuse of a child. It's not hard to understand the frustration and fear driving this...but is it a good idea?
 
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I really have no issue with that.

Of course, there would have to be protections for the defendants at a level you see for capital cases. You don't want to see any more show trials like the Ameralt story in MA.
 

slackjawed

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I would say that our experiences in the past with enacting 'blanket' type sentencing rules for a catagory of crimes has shown that these kind of rules don't always work as planned, and always have unintended consequences.

While the sexual abuse of children is deplorable and offenders should face the toughest penalties imaginable, there are laws on the books to deal with this issue.

This is a knee-jerk reaction to a series of crimes that could have been prevented if the criminal justice system had worked properly in the past. If our system of courts won't enforce the laws already in place, why should we expect them to enforce any new ones that are enacted?
 

JenyEliza

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There's a petition drive in California to install Life Without Parole after a single conviction for sexual abuse of a child. It's not hard to understand the frustration and fear driving this...but is it a good idea?
Read the linky poo in my sig line (if you can stomach the whole thing).

I knew Lori Ann Smith. She's been dead 36 years---since 1974. Her killer is still alive. He's in his 50's now. She got 8 short years on this earth. He got 50+

Read what this monster did to Lori and tell me if I'm just "fear mongering" when I say her killer should have been dead YEARS ago, and yet he is entitled to beg for mercy, beg for his life and beg to be spared. Things he didn't bother to give Lori.

Yeah. "Fear". Sure. :rolleyes:
 

martybegan

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I would say that our experiences in the past with enacting 'blanket' type sentencing rules for a catagory of crimes has shown that these kind of rules don't always work as planned, and always have unintended consequences.

While the sexual abuse of children is deplorable and offenders should face the toughest penalties imaginable, there are laws on the books to deal with this issue.

This is a knee-jerk reaction to a series of crimes that could have been prevented if the criminal justice system had worked properly in the past. If our system of courts won't enforce the laws already in place, why should we expect them to enforce any new ones that are enacted?
This.

If this type of law is passed you are going to have to make sure it covers true child abuse, not the 17 year old consensually sleeping with his 15 year old girlfriend. That may still technically be criminal, but doesnt warrant life without parole.
 

Immanuel

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I have to agree with SJ and MartyB.

Life without parole for true sexual abuse of a minor (heck even an adult) does not bother me, but then I have a problem with "hard and fast rules" like if a kid sees a homeless man's private parts while he is peeing in the park, that is considered sexual abuse of a minor and the homeless man gets life in prison! Or an eighteen year old who has been dating a young woman who is only 16 for two years and they are sexually active, now he is considered a sexual predator for life and if this were to pass, he could spend life in prison?

If you are talking about real sexual predators, I'm okay with that, but mandatory sentencing under all circumstances bothers me.

Immie
 

slackjawed

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There's a petition drive in California to install Life Without Parole after a single conviction for sexual abuse of a child. It's not hard to understand the frustration and fear driving this...but is it a good idea?
Read the linky poo in my sig line (if you can stomach the whole thing).

I knew Lori Ann Smith. She's been dead 36 years---since 1974. Her killer is still alive. He's in his 50's now. She got 8 short years on this earth. He got 50+

Read what this monster did to Lori and tell me if I'm just "fear mongering" when I say her killer should have been dead YEARS ago, and yet he is entitled to beg for mercy, beg for his life and beg to be spared. Things he didn't bother to give Lori.

Yeah. "Fear". Sure. :rolleyes:
Yes, I did read your link some time ago, when I first noticed it. I agree, deplorable.


However, if the courts will not enforce the laws on the books, that would have given this monster the death penalty, then what good will passing more laws do?
 

JenyEliza

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There's a petition drive in California to install Life Without Parole after a single conviction for sexual abuse of a child. It's not hard to understand the frustration and fear driving this...but is it a good idea?
Read the linky poo in my sig line (if you can stomach the whole thing).

I knew Lori Ann Smith. She's been dead 36 years---since 1974. Her killer is still alive. He's in his 50's now. She got 8 short years on this earth. He got 50+

Read what this monster did to Lori and tell me if I'm just "fear mongering" when I say her killer should have been dead YEARS ago, and yet he is entitled to beg for mercy, beg for his life and beg to be spared. Things he didn't bother to give Lori.

Yeah. "Fear". Sure. :rolleyes:
Yes, I did read your link some time ago, when I first noticed it. I agree, deplorable.


However, if the courts will not enforce the laws on the books, that would have given this monster the death penalty, then what good will passing more laws do?
People seem very hesitant to kill mudering pedophiles, but they seem very comfortable with letting them live forever in prision. My guess is that LWOP would be enforced, where DP would not.

You make my point so well....thank you.
 

JenyEliza

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I have to agree with SJ and MartyB.

Life without parole for true sexual abuse of a minor (heck even an adult) does not bother me, but then I have a problem with "hard and fast rules" like if a kid sees a homeless man's private parts while he is peeing in the park, that is considered sexual abuse of a minor and the homeless man gets life in prison! Or an eighteen year old who has been dating a young woman who is only 16 for two years and they are sexually active, now he is considered a sexual predator for life and if this were to pass, he could spend life in prison?

If you are talking about real sexual predators, I'm okay with that, but mandatory sentencing under all circumstances bothers me.

Immie
I'm talking about the shitheads like the guy in my link. I don't know what anyone else is talking about.
 

slackjawed

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Read the linky poo in my sig line (if you can stomach the whole thing).

I knew Lori Ann Smith. She's been dead 36 years---since 1974. Her killer is still alive. He's in his 50's now. She got 8 short years on this earth. He got 50+

Read what this monster did to Lori and tell me if I'm just "fear mongering" when I say her killer should have been dead YEARS ago, and yet he is entitled to beg for mercy, beg for his life and beg to be spared. Things he didn't bother to give Lori.

Yeah. "Fear". Sure. :rolleyes:
Yes, I did read your link some time ago, when I first noticed it. I agree, deplorable.


However, if the courts will not enforce the laws on the books, that would have given this monster the death penalty, then what good will passing more laws do?
People seem very hesitant to kill mudering pedophiles, but they seem very comfortable with letting them live forever in prision. My guess is that LWOP would be enforced, where DP would not.

You make my point so well....thank you.
Maybe it would. But then LWOP was an option when this guy was tried in the 70's as well...........
 

Immanuel

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I have to agree with SJ and MartyB.

Life without parole for true sexual abuse of a minor (heck even an adult) does not bother me, but then I have a problem with "hard and fast rules" like if a kid sees a homeless man's private parts while he is peeing in the park, that is considered sexual abuse of a minor and the homeless man gets life in prison! Or an eighteen year old who has been dating a young woman who is only 16 for two years and they are sexually active, now he is considered a sexual predator for life and if this were to pass, he could spend life in prison?

If you are talking about real sexual predators, I'm okay with that, but mandatory sentencing under all circumstances bothers me.

Immie
I'm talking about the shitheads like the guy in my link. I don't know what anyone else is talking about.
I understand, but I was not addressing your post and as I said, for real abuse, I have no problem whatsoever, but when you make a hard and fast rule that anyone charged with sexual abuse of a minor gets life without parole, then you have gung-ho prosecutors who charge the 18 year old boy with sexual abuse of a minor for having sex with his long time girlfriend who is still 16.

Immie
 

martybegan

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I have to agree with SJ and MartyB.

Life without parole for true sexual abuse of a minor (heck even an adult) does not bother me, but then I have a problem with "hard and fast rules" like if a kid sees a homeless man's private parts while he is peeing in the park, that is considered sexual abuse of a minor and the homeless man gets life in prison! Or an eighteen year old who has been dating a young woman who is only 16 for two years and they are sexually active, now he is considered a sexual predator for life and if this were to pass, he could spend life in prison?

If you are talking about real sexual predators, I'm okay with that, but mandatory sentencing under all circumstances bothers me.

Immie
I'm talking about the shitheads like the guy in my link. I don't know what anyone else is talking about.
We are talking about the law being used to go after not just the shithead you quote, but being misused to go after the case we are talking about.

The law would have to be structurally strict and targetted on your shithead.
 
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Madeline

Madeline

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O Lord, Jeny, how terrible for you, for her family, for everyone.....I am so sorry.

I'm not sure how I feel. If the sentence is not mandatory, the defendant will have endless grounds for appeal and the victim's family will have less peace. And just look at the case Jeny cited...the grounds for appeal were stupid, things like, the Jury was not called by a six member Council. How could that impair his rights?

I think what I want, what most folks want, is to recognize that some sexual predators cannot be rehabilitated. We don't need laws like this for murderers...there are already (allegedly) adequate penalties for that crime. We need them for kidnapping, etc. with gross bodily harm.

I'm not sure they should be mandatory sentences. I fear more victims would be killed then, as defendants try harder to cover up their crimes. But it seems pretty clear to me, some people should never get out of prison.
 

bodecea

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There's a petition drive in California to install Life Without Parole after a single conviction for sexual abuse of a child. It's not hard to understand the frustration and fear driving this...but is it a good idea?
I live in the town where Amber DeBois was taken from and and Chelsea King was from the next town over....I can see where the anger, etc. is coming from.

That being said, we have the largest prison population in the U.S., our prison guard union has some of the best retirement benefits that are bankrupting our state, and we already have federal orders to lessen the population of the prisons we have now.

We have some tough decisions to make. Yes, lock them up...but where? with what money?
 
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Madeline

Madeline

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There's a petition drive in California to install Life Without Parole after a single conviction for sexual abuse of a child. It's not hard to understand the frustration and fear driving this...but is it a good idea?
I live in the town where Amber DeBois was taken from and and Chelsea King was from the next town over....I can see where the anger, etc. is coming from.

That being said, we have the largest prison population in the U.S., our prison guard union has some of the best retirement benefits that are bankrupting our state, and we already have federal orders to lessen the population of the prisons we have now.

We have some tough decisions to make. Yes, lock them up...but where? with what money?
I know it's an issue...and guards are far less safe around LWOP prisoners who basically have nothing to fear. But we could alleviate much of the prison over-crowding if we released non-violent drug offenders. I'd rather lock up one violent child predator than 100 marijuana smokers.

If it is not LWOP, sometimes it feels like it's almost a slap on the wrist. I know of a case where a man pled guilty to six home invasion robberies of elderly victims, and was given 16 years. This was in Pasco County, Florida...he didn't even do two years. It's a disgrace.
 

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