Lithium Ion Batteries? Maybe Not....

[PoliticalChic]

1. Not as a general rule, but as an overarching dogma, for Progressive environmentalists, ideology trumps both science and cost-benefit analysis. Any concerns are irrelevant so long as green energy initiatives can lead to a press release claiming ‘sustainability.’ Which brings us to lithium ion batteries.....the heart of hybrid automobiles.

It's simply one aspect of Liberalism: 'Feeling Passes For Knowing."



The weight of Lithium Ion batteries:

2. An electric car requires an array of battery cells, almost 500 pounds worth. http://www.whitehouse.gov/files/documents/Battery-and-Electric-Vehicle-Report-FINAL.pdf

a. GM’s EV1 NiMH (nickel metal hydride) weighed in at 1,150-1,400 pounds. Nickel Metal Hydride | GREENDUMP and Berezow, Op.Cit., p. 99.

b. The Chevy Volt has a lithium-ion battery that weights in at 435 pounds. GM press release: CHEVROLET VOLT’S REVOLUTIONARY VOLTEC ELECTRIC DRIVE SYSTEM DELIVERS EFFICIENCY WITH PERFORMANCE




The cost of these batteries:

3. The batteries are expensive, listed at $3,000-$4,000. Prius hybrid owners have been quoted at $7,000 and up. Behind the Hidden Costs of Hybrids - HybridCars.com

a. It is unclear what replacement cost will be when labor is included.

4. Since the battery’s ability to recharge declines with use, it must be replaced at about 100,000 miles. And the nickel metal hydride leaks energy- about 20 percent of capacity within the first 24 hours. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/Nickel_based_batteriesbnn


5. “When the cost of replacing the batteries and the cost to recharge the batteries are considered, the cost to run a small electric car (non-hybrid) is about three times more than a conventional economy gasoline car. Since the cost of electricity tends to more or less follow the cost of fuel, it is unlikely that this ratio will change in the future. Electric cars are fun to have and drive, but you will not save money, nor will you really help the environment.” Electric Cars. Critical Questions and Ansswers regarding Electric Cars including how to build an electric car, safety, and are they in fact cheaper to run than conventional electric vehicles.


Environmental damage from the Lithium Ions:

6. The batteries pose a dramatic detrimental effect on the environment due to polytetrafluoroethylene binder and nickel foam materials. Life cycle environmental assessme... preview & related info | Mendeley





And....today's news, the efficacy of Lithium Ions:


7. "Airbus May Switch A350 Battery to Avoid 787 Lithium Woes

Airbus SAS is developing plans to use standard batteries in its A350 model and jettison the lithium- ion power source that grounded Boeing Co.’s rival 787 Dreamliner, two people familiar with the plans said.

The global 787 fleet was grounded on Jan. 16 following a fire on a Japan Airlines Co. plane that U.S. safety experts determined had originated in a lithium-ion battery.

U.S. National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Deborah Hersman said yesterday that assumptions in certifying the 787’s batteries should be reconsidered after investigators found a short-circuit in one cell had set off a chain reaction that destroyed the unit."
Airbus May Switch A350 Battery to Avoid 787 Lithium Woes - Bloomberg


Ya' think industry skipped some steps in research and development....you know, as long as the taxpayer was footing the bill?

 

[Old Rocks]

Lithium ion are hardly the only batteries out there. Zinc air and lithium air are being worked on at present as well as other material combinations. And the lithium ion will continue to be the battery of choice for many vehicle applications.

As far as EV and hybrid autos go, there are increasing numbers of manufacturers producing one or both. And will continue to be as the materials science develops that enables the vehicles to be ever more efficient and less expensive.

 

[tjvh]

Lithium ion are hardly the only batteries out there. Zinc air and lithium air are being worked on at present as well as other material combinations. And the lithium ion will continue to be the battery of choice for many vehicle applications.

As far as EV and hybrid autos go, there are increasing numbers of manufacturers producing one or both. And will continue to be as the materials science develops that enables the vehicles to be ever more efficient and less expensive.

materials science develops??? Science may well develop a car that runs on water one day too, but that doesn't mean we need to subsidize technologies that don't yet exist.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Lithium ion are hardly the only batteries out there. Zinc air and lithium air are being worked on at present as well as other material combinations. And the lithium ion will continue to be the battery of choice for many vehicle applications.

As far as EV and hybrid autos go, there are increasing numbers of manufacturers producing one or both. And will continue to be as the materials science develops that enables the vehicles to be ever more efficient and less expensive.

"....and less expensive."


Perhaps you missed this, in the OP:

“When the cost of replacing the batteries and the cost to recharge the batteries are considered, the cost to run a small electric car (non-hybrid) is about three times more than a conventional economy gasoline car. Since the cost of electricity tends to more or less follow the cost of fuel, it is unlikely that this ratio will change in the future. Electric cars are fun to have and drive, but you will not save money, nor will you really help the environment.” Electric Cars. Critical Questions and Ansswers regarding Electric Cars including how to build an electric car, safety, and are they in fact cheaper to run than conventional electric vehicles.

 

[waltky]

Granny don't care - she ain't gonna fly in it anyway...

Boeing 787 Dreamliner runs first successful test flight with new battery system
Tuesday 26th March, 2013 - Aerospace giant Boeing said it has run its first successful test flight of a 787 aircraft fitted with a redesigned battery system, following the grounding of all Dreamliner flights in January.

The company said the tests went "according to plan", and Boeing is now planning a second test to gather data for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), which has to give its approval before the 787 is allowed to fly commercially again. The flight was for just over two hours - from Washington's Paine Field airport in Everett, Boeing's main production base, 40km north of Seattle. The flight test was on an aircraft for LOT Polish Airlines and travelled a distance of 938 statute miles at a maximum altitude of 39,000 feet. The flight was intended to provide a standard check on all landing gear, backup and electrical systems. After data collected from the test is analysed, a more formal "battery certification flight" will be launched on the same aircraft in the next few days to certify that the new batteries are functioning as intended.

Fifty of the Dreamliner jets had to be grounded when lithium-ion batteries on two of the planes caught fire. One incident took place in the US another in Japan. Investigators in Japan and the US are now looking into what went wrong and have so far concentrated on the planes' battery systems. It is the first time that lightweight lithium-ion batteries have been used so extensively on a large passenger jet. "During the functional check flight, crews cycled the landing gear and operated all the backup systems, in addition to performing electrical system checks from the flight profile," Boeing spokesman Marc Birtel said in a statement. The flight on Monday carried six crew members: two Boeing pilots, two instrumentation engineers, a systems operator and a flight analyst, Boeing said. Boeing is believed to be testing a new casing for the battery and a venting system that would dispel potentially flammable gases.

One battery that burst is now the subject of investigation but the National Transport Safety Board (NTSB), has concluded in an interim report that short circuits across its eight cells may have triggered the fire. The NTSB has, however, not yet identified a root cause for the fire. On 16 January, in Japan, the battery on a second 787 triggered a smoke alarm while in flight leading to an emergency landing. Japanese investigators have yet to identify the cause of that fire. The NTSB will hold a meeting on lithium-ion batteries in April, where the controversial technology will be discussed by airline and freight executives as well as safety experts and scientists. Lithium-ion batteries have caused fires in smaller planes, cars, computers and mobile devices in the past. Freighting the technology by plane is also carefully regulated.

Robert Mann, founder of airline consultant RW Mann, said it was a positive step that Boeing was testing the 787 but added: "Until there is a conclusive root-cause analysis a lot of folk will be circumspect about the Dreamliner. "At this point, it is not clear to anyone except Boeing exactly what they are testing. We don't know what the cause of the incidents were. I assume that they are testing the enclosure of the battery bit if it subsequently turns out that that was not where the issuer started, we haven't learnt anything," the Guardian quoted him as saying. Boeing is losing an estimated $50m a week while the 787 is grounded and has told customers it expects to have the plane back in the air this spring. Rival Airbus has dropped the lithium-ion battery technology from its A350 passenger jet.

Source