What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Let's talk about Cuba..

OP
Socialist

Socialist

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
Messages
1,866
Reaction score
200
Points
50
Location
America.
Cuba's freaking achievements? Russia invested a lot of capital in the backward banana republik for about 30 years until it went under itself. Thank the Russians for the junk toilets guaranteed ration for every family. Cubanos left their Russian made toilets and guaranteed rations and died by the hundreds trying to reach the 90 miles to freedom in the U.S. Does that tell you anything? Cubans learned to live with the fear of being rounded up by insane agents of the insane government if they tried to make a capitalist buck on the side or making a casual remark criticizing the regime. The threat of homosexuality has been all but eliminated by executions and incarceration. Is that what the left sees as a new paradise in the US of A?
Utter bullshit, the people who left cuba were the losers of the revolution, the land owning wealthy, the ones who now live in Miami and act like cubans are starving. LOL.
 

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
112,753
Reaction score
17,983
Points
2,180
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
869
Reaction score
46
Points
18
yes, lets' talk about that wonderful socialist "success", even after receiving BILLIONS of $ in Aid from Russia.
 
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
869
Reaction score
46
Points
18
the fact is, if the poor had ANY sense and any RESPECT for future generations, they'd STOP having kids that they can't afford to raise properly. What's the rush, anyway? why CANT you wait until you're 45, have saved/invested half a million $ (each, wife and hubby) and ADOPT a couple of kids, hmm? What's so gd special about YOUR genes, hmm? Especially when you're proving that you're unfit to live, by being unable to support yourself and save for future bad times?
 
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
869
Reaction score
46
Points
18
by having kids in your 20's (or younger) when you're poor, you are virtually GUARANTEEING that you'll STAY poor. With a kid ,you can't travel to where the work is, can't live in a van and save 10k per year otherwise wasted on rent, utilities, commuting,, etc. When you stay poor, you're also guaranteeing that your kids won't be raised properly, and you're mooching off of the taxpayer to send them to public schools, on top of depriving them of a decent education and exposing them to all sorts of health and violence risks, that is.
 
OP
Socialist

Socialist

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
Messages
1,866
Reaction score
200
Points
50
Location
America.

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
112,753
Reaction score
17,983
Points
2,180
Supporting higher education has to do with making sure students can afford higher education, or letting them go for free.


Only to an irrational leftist nut like you.
Keep telling yourself that

Keep proving it, dimwit.
 

Unkotare

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
112,753
Reaction score
17,983
Points
2,180
by having kids in your 20's (or younger) when you're poor, you are virtually GUARANTEEING that you'll STAY poor. With a kid ,you can't travel to where the work is, can't live in a van and save 10k per year otherwise wasted on rent, utilities, commuting,, etc. When you stay poor, you're also guaranteeing that your kids won't be raised properly, and you're mooching off of the taxpayer to send them to public schools, on top of depriving them of a decent education and exposing them to all sorts of health and violence risks, that is.


You are also a pathetic SOB.
 

TheOldSchool

Diamond Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
62,631
Reaction score
10,081
Points
2,070
Location
last stop for sanity before reaching the south
Cuba plays the US at soccer today in the Gold Cup tournament. They would have had a hard enough time winning, but it will be harder for them now because 5 of their 23 man roster have used this rare opportunity of being allowed to leave their country to DEFECT! :rofl:

Thank goodness the U.S. is reestablishing a relationship with Cuba. Maybe it will ease their people's suffering a little.

Cuba comes to Baltimore with something less than a full squad - The Washington Post
 

Toro

Diamond Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
93,359
Reaction score
30,558
Points
2,250
Location
Surfing the Oceans of Liquidity
I saw these statistics some time ago.

Cuba and Chile and roughly the same GDP per capita in 1960, with Chile a little higher. Cuba went down the Marxist road, Chile went down the capitalist road. Now, Chile is the richest country in Latin America and Cuba is a third world country.
 

Toro

Diamond Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
93,359
Reaction score
30,558
Points
2,250
Location
Surfing the Oceans of Liquidity
The “Rectification Process” (RP) from 1986-90 sought to abolish almost all private sectors. Castro had complete control of the economy, but the recentralization of decision-making was made in conjunction with a decrease in central planning. The result was such policies as further vertical merging of state enterprises, “[with] profits subordinate to the ‘national interest’ but he [Castro] did not operationalize the latter into indicators” (Mesa-Largo 269). During the RP, material incentives to workers were completely removed and moral incentives expanded.

Figures for how nationalized the Cuban economy became are striking. Similar to the Soviet Union in 1959 and Bulgaria in 1956 (although to an even greater degree), industry, construction, transportation and finance were all 100% nationalized industries. But the numbers are most astonishing with respect to agriculture. The Soviet Union (1959) and Poland (1960) each had 14% and 8% agricultural nationalization respectfully while Bulgaria (1956) had only 6%. Cuba in 1988, on the other hand, had 92% of agriculture nationalized (Mesa-Largo 336).

The result of the RP was the worst crisis since the Revolution. Even though exogenous factors such as the communist collapse also had disastrous effects, the fall occurred even before the 1990’s, pointing only to the RP to blame for the initial decline. The National Bank published reports on GDP for the period from 1986-89, showing average GDP at –1.3% and per capita GDP at –2.3% (Mesa-Largo 281). All output targets during this time were unfulfilled, most by a very large margin. Mesa-Largo points out a major flaw with the RP was that it did not create an “integrated economic-organization model” to substitute for the SDPE, a fundamental problem for a socialist nation (265). ...

The next stage of Chile’s economic path was a period of recovery from 1984-85 followed by sustained growth from 1985-90. The new team built upon the Chicago Boys’ work in the 70’s, pushing for greater privatization, foreign investment and trade, and expansions of the financial market. Two laws were passed in 1985 that began a system of “popular capitalism.” The system had two main objectives: first, rapid privatization of financial institutions that were previously state-controlled (under Allende) and second, distributing pieces of conglomerates to various private sectors (Mesa-Largo 81). Carmelo Mesa-Largo highlights the prescient thinking of the second objective in that, “If future governments wanted to intervene in or nationalize those enterprises, they would have to face a large number of stockholders” (81). The firms were insured of being distributed fully via 50% of the sales going through the stock market (Mesa-Largo 82).

The economic performance of Chile in this stage is also remarkably different than Cuba’s, with an average annual growth rate of GDP at 6.4%. Not only was overall growth a success in this period, but domestic investment was also promoted to lower dependence on foreign financing, increasing from 2.9% to 17.2% of GDP. Sectors that also will contribute to future growth experienced success, such as the industrial sector and transportation and communications with annual growth at 6.2% and 9.2% respectfully (Mesa-Largo 93).

In the mid to late 1980’s, it is nearly indisputable that Cuba’s nationalized economy was declining considerably while Chile’s market was rising.​

Comparison of Cuba and Chile
 
OP
Socialist

Socialist

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
Messages
1,866
Reaction score
200
Points
50
Location
America.
The “Rectification Process” (RP) from 1986-90 sought to abolish almost all private sectors. Castro had complete control of the economy, but the recentralization of decision-making was made in conjunction with a decrease in central planning. The result was such policies as further vertical merging of state enterprises, “[with] profits subordinate to the ‘national interest’ but he [Castro] did not operationalize the latter into indicators” (Mesa-Largo 269). During the RP, material incentives to workers were completely removed and moral incentives expanded.

Figures for how nationalized the Cuban economy became are striking. Similar to the Soviet Union in 1959 and Bulgaria in 1956 (although to an even greater degree), industry, construction, transportation and finance were all 100% nationalized industries. But the numbers are most astonishing with respect to agriculture. The Soviet Union (1959) and Poland (1960) each had 14% and 8% agricultural nationalization respectfully while Bulgaria (1956) had only 6%. Cuba in 1988, on the other hand, had 92% of agriculture nationalized (Mesa-Largo 336).

The result of the RP was the worst crisis since the Revolution. Even though exogenous factors such as the communist collapse also had disastrous effects, the fall occurred even before the 1990’s, pointing only to the RP to blame for the initial decline. The National Bank published reports on GDP for the period from 1986-89, showing average GDP at –1.3% and per capita GDP at –2.3% (Mesa-Largo 281). All output targets during this time were unfulfilled, most by a very large margin. Mesa-Largo points out a major flaw with the RP was that it did not create an “integrated economic-organization model” to substitute for the SDPE, a fundamental problem for a socialist nation (265). ...

The next stage of Chile’s economic path was a period of recovery from 1984-85 followed by sustained growth from 1985-90. The new team built upon the Chicago Boys’ work in the 70’s, pushing for greater privatization, foreign investment and trade, and expansions of the financial market. Two laws were passed in 1985 that began a system of “popular capitalism.” The system had two main objectives: first, rapid privatization of financial institutions that were previously state-controlled (under Allende) and second, distributing pieces of conglomerates to various private sectors (Mesa-Largo 81). Carmelo Mesa-Largo highlights the prescient thinking of the second objective in that, “If future governments wanted to intervene in or nationalize those enterprises, they would have to face a large number of stockholders” (81). The firms were insured of being distributed fully via 50% of the sales going through the stock market (Mesa-Largo 82).

The economic performance of Chile in this stage is also remarkably different than Cuba’s, with an average annual growth rate of GDP at 6.4%. Not only was overall growth a success in this period, but domestic investment was also promoted to lower dependence on foreign financing, increasing from 2.9% to 17.2% of GDP. Sectors that also will contribute to future growth experienced success, such as the industrial sector and transportation and communications with annual growth at 6.2% and 9.2% respectfully (Mesa-Largo 93).

In the mid to late 1980’s, it is nearly indisputable that Cuba’s nationalized economy was declining considerably while Chile’s market was rising.​

Comparison of Cuba and Chile
Yeah, not like cuba was embargoed, and you seem to forget imperialist powers LOVED pinochet, it was their little experiment.
Very high inequality in Chilean society breeds resentment
"
  1. On July 20th the government announced that 14.4% of Chileans were living below the poverty line, down from 15.1% in 2009, when the centre-left was in power under Michelle Bachelet. Mr Piñera trumpeted that Chile had “recovered the ability to reduce poverty”.Sep 29, 2012
"
Cuba was essentially a little nation where the majority of the population suffered, now, it has virtually eradicated homelessness, malnutrition, kids are guaranteed milk, cuba's medical system is praised by many..
 

Rigby5

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
24,338
Reaction score
7,734
Points
265
Location
New Mexico
yes, lets' talk about that wonderful socialist "success", even after receiving BILLIONS of $ in Aid from Russia.

Cuba had its economy totally altered by the US, such as basing it all on sugar, rum, and casinos.
So then the illegal US economic blockade was economically devastating.
That says nothing about Cuba, but instead condemns the US.
 

Rigby5

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
24,338
Reaction score
7,734
Points
265
Location
New Mexico
I saw these statistics some time ago.

Cuba and Chile and roughly the same GDP per capita in 1960, with Chile a little higher. Cuba went down the Marxist road, Chile went down the capitalist road. Now, Chile is the richest country in Latin America and Cuba is a third world country.

Irrelevant.
Chile went down the dictator road with US backed Gen. Pinochet, while Cuba was illegal under a US blockade.
 

whitehall

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
56,514
Reaction score
19,490
Points
2,260
Location
Western Va.
Obama had a chance to do the right thing by demanding that fugitives like Joanne Chesimard would be turned over for prosecution but that wasn't a part of his agenda.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$0.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top