Lets listen to our Bravest

[Truthmatters]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/27/news/delta.php

 

[Truthmatters]

"In 2003, 2004, 100 percent of the soldiers wanted to be here, to fight this war," said Sergeant First Class David Moore, a self-described "conservative Texas Republican" and platoon sergeant who strongly advocates an American withdrawal. "Now, 95 percent of my platoon agrees with me."

It is not a question of loyalty, the soldiers insist. Safstrom, for example, comes from a thoroughly military family. His mother and father have served in the armed forces, as have his three sisters, one brother and several uncles. One week after the Sept. 11 attacks, he walked into a recruiter's office and joined the army.

"You guys want to start a fight in my backyard, I got something for you," he recalls thinking at the time.

But in Safstrom's view, the American presence is futile. "If we stayed here for 5, even 10 more years, the day we leave here these guys will go crazy," he said. "It would go straight into a civil war. That's how it feels, like we're putting a Band-Aid on this country until we leave here."


http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/27/news/delta.php

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yup usual leftoid tactic. If a some one agrees with them that opinion is important, if someone doesn't then we get the MANTRA, the military opinion doesn't matter because civilians decide what they do.

 

[Truthmatters]

So that means you think this guy and his company's opinion is not important?

I suppose you think he is a cheese eating surrender monkey right?

 

[maineman]

I think basing foreign policy decisions on what this guy says is just as ill-advised as basing foreign policy decision on what is thought and said by servicemen who support this war.

Having said that, I think this article is enlightening in that it destroys the idea that the military is completely united in their support for this war when clearly that is not the case. The military is souring on this war just as the American public is souring on it... and we should expect their opinions to mirror the opinions of the public at large. Claiming otherwise is simply pro-Bush, pro-war propaganda.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I think basing foreign policy decisions on what this guy says is just as ill-advised as basing foreign policy decision on what is thought and said by servicemen who support this war.

Having said that, I think this article is enlightening in that it destroys the idea that the military is completely united in their support for this war when clearly that is not the case. The military is souring on this war just as the American public is souring on it... and we should expect their opinions to mirror the opinions of the public at large. Claiming otherwise is simply pro-Bush, pro-war propaganda.

No one has ever said the Military was UNITED. The military is made up of Volunteer citizens, it is going to have a multitude of opinions. But then you already know that, this is just your attempt to sway someone to gullable to recognize your "slant"

 

[maineman]

No one has ever said the Military was UNITED. The military is made up of Volunteer citizens, it is going to have a multitude of opinions. But then you already know that, this is just your attempt to sway someone to gullable to recognize your "slant"

you haven't been around this board very long.... you should read the rants of RSR where he claims that the military LOVES being in Iraq and they dearly want to stay there in that shooting gallery until the multicultural jeffersonian democracy blossoms on the banks of the Euphrates and that anyone who disagrees with that sentiment is a traitor.

But even if you had, you are such a shameless apologist for the Bush administration and the republican party, you'd never say anything to him anyway.

Oh wait.... you DID make an oblique comment that mildly disagreed with him once. That makes you Mister-fucking-inapartiality...I forgot

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You don't know my opinion at all. And your once again creating a strawman argument.

Here let me set you straight, just cause your such a lying "intellectual".

Red State Rules is entitled to his opinion, just as you are. I neither support nor agree with all his stuff. But since I got here he has not made any big "gotcha" moronic statements or posts. Though I must admit I generally ignore his stuff once the two of you start the " yes you did, no I didn't" 5 year old crap.

The one thread he made a claim that was obviously false and I POSTED such. And if he does it again I will again, if I see it I will tell him he is wrong.

He doesn't like your polls and you don't like his.... SO what? Polls don't prove a damn thing, they are easily manipulated to get the apparent answer the creator of the poll wanted to get.

Your further argument that he shouldn't post links is nothing more than your embarrassment at him providing links that sometimes make you look stupid. You demand he put more "opinion" in his posts and at the same time demand others provide links.... You are a control freak. You think you can dictate to the board members what and how they post.

As for my support of Bush.... I had 2 choices in 2004, and Kerry was a no brainer. He is now our President and he is doing what needs to be done, in MY OPINION. Bush is not right of center, or rather if he is it is slight at best. So claiming people that support him are rightwing ideologues is ludicrous.

I do NOT now nor will I ever remain silent when a wrong is committed no matter who is at fault. Your ubnreasoning hatred of a man is laughable if it were not so destructive for this country. Your admitted acceptance of anyone that will support what you support is a prime example of WHY Liberals are dangerous. Your statement that the ends justify the means is ignorant and immoral.

 

[maineman]

As for my support of Bush.... I had 2 choices in 2004, and Kerry was a no brainer. He is now our President and he is doing what needs to be done, in MY OPINION. Bush is not right of center, or rather if he is it is slight at best. So claiming people that support him are rightwing ideologues is ludicrous.

I do NOT now nor will I ever remain silent when a wrong is committed no matter who is at fault. Your ubnreasoning hatred of a man is laughable if it were not so destructive for this country. Your admitted acceptance of anyone that will support what you support is a prime example of WHY Liberals are dangerous. Your statement that the ends justify the means is ignorant and immoral.

If you think the extent of what I do is post the results of polls and cut and paste op-ed pieces, then you are willfully blind.

I understand why fewer Americans voted for Bush than for Gore...he was a weak candidate.

I understand why more people voted for Bush that Kerry. Kerry was an even weaker candidate.

I do not understand why ANYONE continues to support this immoral war in Iraq.

And if you would like to post the quote from me where I said that the ends justify the means, and put it in any proper context that means anything other than I am as perfectly happy to accept the votes of the lunatic left for democratic candidates just as YOU are to accept the votes of lunatic right republican candidates, please do so...or admit you are twisting MY words while cowardly walking away from you own.

asshole.

 

[Truthmatters]

It has NOT been proven to me Kerry got fewer votes than Bush.

Ohio was a sickening mess of an election.

 

[maineman]

but it doesn't really matter...anymore than republicans claiming that Dick Daley had corpses vote for JFK in '60. It is in the rear view mirror. All we can do and all we MUST do is to work to make sure it doesn't happen in the future.

 

[Truthmatters]

I agree there is no remedy for the past possible stolen elections.

But if we want to save this country Votes Must Count.

No more disenfranchising voters with these sleazy tactics and If my party ever tries to use these underhanded methods to win I will turn against them in a red hot second.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you think the extent of what I do is post the results of polls and cut and paste op-ed pieces, then you are willfully blind.

I understand why fewer Americans voted for Bush than for Gore...he was a weak candidate.

I understand why more people voted for Bush that Kerry. Kerry was an even weaker candidate.

I do not understand why ANYONE continues to support this immoral war in Iraq.

And if you would like to post the quote from me where I said that the ends justify the means, and put it in any proper context that means anything other than I am as perfectly happy to accept the votes of the lunatic left for democratic candidates just as YOU are to accept the votes of lunatic right republican candidates, please do so...or admit you are twisting MY words while cowardly walking away from you own.

asshole.

The liar and the coward would be the one that can not even own up to HIS words. The discussion was NEVER about unknown voters, it was and is about people in the party that have standing and authority, that speak FOR the party as elected or appointed authority figures. In the specific case on this board it is about, as you full well know, allowing the rantings of lunatics to speak for you, to paint you as willing to accept them simply because , in your words " they have no real power". I and the republican party DO in fact hold everyone accountable for their actions and their words.

Remind me again how the Democrats have kicked out of the party the Lunatic left, I can remind you how the republican party kicked out the Lunatic right.... Remind me again how on this board you noted the idiocy of your "fellow" liberals? I can show YOU were I questioned my "fellow" apparent rightwinger....

Remind me of that list of democrats that have resigned or been forced out by the leadership in the House and Senate? I can get you the names of the Republicans that have resigned or been removed from positions of power. Not only do the criminals in the democratic party not resign, they run for reelection with the FULL support of the party and receive positions of importance in Congress. So much for the " Most Ethical" Congress ever. Catch a democrat breaking the law? No problem since the press won't talk about it just pretend it never happened. BUT wait look, these investigations found nothing wrong, lets redo them cause they involve Republicans.

Republicans fell all over themselves giving money back in a certain scandal , meanwhile not one dime was returned by the democrats that the same guy "bribed". And of course our fair and impartial media couldn't be bothered with pointing out the democrats involved, nor the fact they kept the money.

 

[Ninja]

"In 2003, 2004, 100 percent of the soldiers wanted to be here, to fight this war," said Sergeant First Class David Moore, a self-described "conservative Texas Republican" and platoon sergeant who strongly advocates an American withdrawal. "Now, 95 percent of my platoon agrees with me."

It is not a question of loyalty, the soldiers insist. Safstrom, for example, comes from a thoroughly military family. His mother and father have served in the armed forces, as have his three sisters, one brother and several uncles. One week after the Sept. 11 attacks, he walked into a recruiter's office and joined the army.

"You guys want to start a fight in my backyard, I got something for you," he recalls thinking at the time.

But in Safstrom's view, the American presence is futile. "If we stayed here for 5, even 10 more years, the day we leave here these guys will go crazy," he said. "It would go straight into a civil war. That's how it feels, like we're putting a Band-Aid on this country until we leave here."


http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/27/news/delta.php

do you honestly think that the opinions of ground troops in Iraq should be used when deciding American foreign policy?

http://usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=564105&postcount=20

 

[RetiredGySgt]

do you honestly think that the opinions of ground troops in Iraq should be used when deciding American foreign policy?

http://usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=564105&postcount=20

Only when they agree with him.

 

[CSM]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/27/news/delta.php

Interesting asrticle...wonder why they didn't balance it with an opposing view from a Platoon Sergeant who holds such? or are we supposed to believe there are none? Isn't that what the "fairness" bill is all about?

I can fully understand Sgt Moore's view. I also think he has a right to his opinion. I wonder if he will re-enlist.

 

[maineman]

The liar and the coward would be the one that can not even own up to HIS words. The discussion was NEVER about unknown voters, it was and is about people in the party that have standing and authority, that speak FOR the party as elected or appointed authority figures. In the specific case on this board it is about, as you full well know, allowing the rantings of lunatics to speak for you, to paint you as willing to accept them simply because , in your words " they have no real power". I and the republican party DO in fact hold everyone accountable for their actions and their words.

Remind me again how the Democrats have kicked out of the party the Lunatic left, I can remind you how the republican party kicked out the Lunatic right.... Remind me again how on this board you noted the idiocy of your "fellow" liberals? I can show YOU were I questioned my "fellow" apparent rightwinger....

Remind me of that list of democrats that have resigned or been forced out by the leadership in the House and Senate? I can get you the names of the Republicans that have resigned or been removed from positions of power. Not only do the criminals in the democratic party not resign, they run for reelection with the FULL support of the party and receive positions of importance in Congress. So much for the " Most Ethical" Congress ever. Catch a democrat breaking the law? No problem since the press won't talk about it just pretend it never happened. BUT wait look, these investigations found nothing wrong, lets redo them cause they involve Republicans.

Republicans fell all over themselves giving money back in a certain scandal , meanwhile not one dime was returned by the democrats that the same guy "bribed". And of course our fair and impartial media couldn't be bothered with pointing out the democrats involved, nor the fact they kept the money.

who in my party has standing and authority that is too far left for me to embrace?

remind me of the republicans you have kicked out of YOUR party.. that list escapes me.

and many democrats who took money from Abramoff clients returned that money. your statements are a lie....as usual

 

[Gunny]

I agree there is no remedy for the past possible stolen elections.

But if we want to save this country Votes Must Count.

No more disenfranchising voters with these sleazy tactics and If my party ever tries to use these underhanded methods to win I will turn against them in a red hot second.

Your second was up LONG ago. Now how about keeping your fantasy voter conspiracy theories in your fantasy voter conspiracy theories threads? It isn't like you don't have more than one to choose from.