Let's Examine the Claims of Atheists

[Ringtone]

Let's.

Examine this:

As an atheist, the only claim I make is that I don't believe in a god.

I would respond with a question. Does this atheist believe that something has always existed?

 

[dblack]

Let's.

Examine this:

As an atheist, the only claim I make is that I don't believe in a god.

I would respond with a question. Does this atheist believe that something has always existed?

Atheism is the lack of believe in a god. That's it. A given atheist might make other claims, might have other beliefs, but the only thing inherent in atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. That's its literal definition.

 

[Meriweather]

Atheism is the lack of believe in a god. That's it. A given atheist might make other claims, might have other beliefs, but the only thing inherent in atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. That's its literal definition.

Well put. It is best that atheists let it go at that. No excuses needed.

 

[Ringtone]

Atheism is the lack of believe in a god. That's it. A given atheist might make other claims, might have other beliefs, but the only thing inherent in atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. That's its literal definition.

More accurately, it's the disbelief in or the lack of belief in divinity, which I suppose amounts to the same triviality: a toaster lacks belief in divinity. Hence, I would ask the atheist if he holds that something has always existed given that something does in fact exist rather than nothing. If he has nothing further to say, neither do I.

 

[BreezeWood]

Atheism is the lack of believe in a god. That's it. A given atheist might make other claims, might have other beliefs, but the only thing inherent in atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. That's its literal definition.

More accurately, it's the disbelief in or the lack of belief in divinity, which I suppose amounts to the same triviality: a toaster lacks belief in divinity. Hence, I would ask the atheist if he holds that something has always existed given that something does in fact exist rather than nothing. If he has nothing further to say, neither do I.

.

I would ask the atheist if he holds that something has always existed given that something does in fact exist rather than nothing.

.
the christian has no proof there ever has been a time matter or energy has not existed. nor would there be a difference for the secular theist.

 

[harmonica]

Atheists don't make claims. That's what theists do.

Atheists make claims all the time.

It is easy to expose the bible errors, now watch how Theists react:

Genesis

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). 1:3-5

God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. This firmament, if it existed, would have been quite an obstacle to our space program. 1:6-8

Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

Numbers

The Israelite population went from seventy (Ex.1:5) to several million (over 600,000 adult males) in just a few generations! 1:45-46

Judges

Every male Midianite was killed during the time of Moses (Num.31:7), and yet just a few years later they flourish like grasshoppers "without number." 6:1-6

Matthew

There are 29 generations listed from David to Jesus in Matthew's genealogy, while Luke's (3:23-31) has 43. Except for David at one end and Jesus at the other, there are only three names in the two lists that are the same. 1:6-16

Luke

In Luke's gospel, God addresses Jesus directly saying, "Thou art my beloved son." But Matthew (3:17) has God speak to those witnessing Jesus' baptism, by saying: "This is my beloved son." Whatever the exact wording, it is strange that after witnessing this even, John the Baptist is still unsure about Jesus (Mt.11:2-3, Lk.7:19). 3:22

======

There are hundreds more.......

their answer:
god did it
god can do anything
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

So what is so wrong with saying GOD did it, when in fact GOD does it? Why should I or anyone disregard the obvious and try to develop a theory excluding GOD ---- because one wishes to believe GOD cannot exist. Laugh all you wish, but any other opinion is not without issues, and clearly GOD does make HIMSELF known to those sincerely seeking HIM needing help.

.....plain and simple--you can't prove there is a god....YOU people claim that--YOU have to prove it or else it's plain bullshit
..I can claim jesus took me to the moon for a ham sandwich ...he did that

 

[harmonica]

There are hundreds more.......

"My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways." - Nature's God

Because you misunderstand does not make it wrong. You don't know a fraction of a fraction of reality.

Proof There Is No God

ProofThereIsNoGod.blogspot.com

I see no counterpoints to the easy to read bible errors I posted, how come that is always the case when I put Christians on the spot, they either completely ignore it or post an evasive long winded link that doesn't address it.

You intentionally misunderstand and misinterpret Bible passages. You put nobody on the spot with your ignorant misunderstanding. Not cool. Your outlandish idea that the universe made itself is preposterous on its face and yet you persist in it.

Your pretense that you are *smarter* than non-atheists is contradicted by your claims, your beliefs, your social and scientific failures, and your personal miseries which are thoroughly documented.

We feel sorry for you and your arrogant brethren. You make your own hell and live in it.

you can interpret the bible many ways

 

[harmonica]

Let's.

Examine this:

As an atheist, the only claim I make is that I don't believe in a god.

I would respond with a question. Does this atheist believe that something has always existed?

Atheism is the lack of believe in a god. That's it. A given atheist might make other claims, might have other beliefs, but the only thing inherent in atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. That's its literal definition.

first, you have to prove there is a god

 

[LittleNipper]

Atheists don't make claims. That's what theists do.

Atheists make claims all the time.

It is easy to expose the bible errors, now watch how Theists react:

Genesis

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). 1:3-5

God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. This firmament, if it existed, would have been quite an obstacle to our space program. 1:6-8

Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

Numbers

The Israelite population went from seventy (Ex.1:5) to several million (over 600,000 adult males) in just a few generations! 1:45-46

Judges

Every male Midianite was killed during the time of Moses (Num.31:7), and yet just a few years later they flourish like grasshoppers "without number." 6:1-6

Matthew

There are 29 generations listed from David to Jesus in Matthew's genealogy, while Luke's (3:23-31) has 43. Except for David at one end and Jesus at the other, there are only three names in the two lists that are the same. 1:6-16

Luke

In Luke's gospel, God addresses Jesus directly saying, "Thou art my beloved son." But Matthew (3:17) has God speak to those witnessing Jesus' baptism, by saying: "This is my beloved son." Whatever the exact wording, it is strange that after witnessing this even, John the Baptist is still unsure about Jesus (Mt.11:2-3, Lk.7:19). 3:22

======

There are hundreds more.......

their answer:
god did it
god can do anything
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

So what is so wrong with saying GOD did it, when in fact GOD does it? Why should I or anyone disregard the obvious and try to develop a theory excluding GOD ---- because one wishes to believe GOD cannot exist. Laugh all you wish, but any other opinion is not without issues, and clearly GOD does make HIMSELF known to those sincerely seeking HIM needing help.

.....plain and simple--you can't prove there is a god....YOU people claim that--YOU have to prove it or else it's plain bullshit
..I can claim jesus took me to the moon for a ham sandwich ...he did that

I don't have to prove that GOD exists. I know it. I know it even more sure than that I had a Great-great-great grandfather. If you are not interested or don't wish to explore creation, history, and prophetic reality ----- that is on your head and not mine. I've certainly persevered and am willing to continue; however, there does come a time when the disciple is told to shake the dust from his sandals and move on to those who the LORD has be encouraging to show interest...

 

[LittleNipper]

There are hundreds more.......

"My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways." - Nature's God

Because you misunderstand does not make it wrong. You don't know a fraction of a fraction of reality.

Proof There Is No God

ProofThereIsNoGod.blogspot.com

I see no counterpoints to the easy to read bible errors I posted, how come that is always the case when I put Christians on the spot, they either completely ignore it or post an evasive long winded link that doesn't address it.

You intentionally misunderstand and misinterpret Bible passages. You put nobody on the spot with your ignorant misunderstanding. Not cool. Your outlandish idea that the universe made itself is preposterous on its face and yet you persist in it.

Your pretense that you are *smarter* than non-atheists is contradicted by your claims, your beliefs, your social and scientific failures, and your personal miseries which are thoroughly documented.

We feel sorry for you and your arrogant brethren. You make your own hell and live in it.

you can interpret the bible many ways

There are very few honest ways to interpret scripture, and the only one valid is with guidance from the Holy Spirit. Now a passage of scripture can have more than one meaning; however, those means don't contradict but enhance each other. I've never been unhappy when following CHRIST. It is when I don't that I find myself at whits end. I cannot imagine life without GOD ----- it cannot be a joyous one...

 

[Thunderbird]

Let's.

Examine this:

As an atheist, the only claim I make is that I don't believe in a god.

I would respond with a question. Does this atheist believe that something has always existed?

Atheism is the lack of believe in a god. That's it. A given atheist might make other claims, might have other beliefs, but the only thing inherent in atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. That's its literal definition.

Atheism can also be defined as 1) “the belief that God does not exist” or 2) “denial of the existence of God”. This 2nd definition makes the most sense. According to your definition someone who employs reason and thinks God exists sans belief would be an atheist which is of course absurd.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Defining Atheism and the Burden of Proof | Philosophy | Cambridge Core

Defining Atheism and the Burden of Proof - Volume 93 Issue 2

www.cambridge.org

Your definition is like a participation trophy, you want the thrill of accomplishment without actually doing anything.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Atheists don't make claims. That's what theists do.

Atheists make claims all the time.

It is easy to expose the bible errors, now watch how Theists react:

Genesis

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). 1:3-5

God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. This firmament, if it existed, would have been quite an obstacle to our space program. 1:6-8

Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

Numbers

The Israelite population went from seventy (Ex.1:5) to several million (over 600,000 adult males) in just a few generations! 1:45-46

Judges

Every male Midianite was killed during the time of Moses (Num.31:7), and yet just a few years later they flourish like grasshoppers "without number." 6:1-6

Matthew

There are 29 generations listed from David to Jesus in Matthew's genealogy, while Luke's (3:23-31) has 43. Except for David at one end and Jesus at the other, there are only three names in the two lists that are the same. 1:6-16

Luke

In Luke's gospel, God addresses Jesus directly saying, "Thou art my beloved son." But Matthew (3:17) has God speak to those witnessing Jesus' baptism, by saying: "This is my beloved son." Whatever the exact wording, it is strange that after witnessing this even, John the Baptist is still unsure about Jesus (Mt.11:2-3, Lk.7:19). 3:22

======

There are hundreds more.......

their answer:
god did it
god can do anything
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

So what is so wrong with saying GOD did it, when in fact GOD does it? Why should I or anyone disregard the obvious and try to develop a theory excluding GOD ---- because one wishes to believe GOD cannot exist. Laugh all you wish, but any other opinion is not without issues, and clearly GOD does make HIMSELF known to those sincerely seeking HIM needing help.

.....plain and simple--you can't prove there is a god....YOU people claim that--YOU have to prove it or else it's plain bullshit
..I can claim jesus took me to the moon for a ham sandwich ...he did that

Like all Theists they can't address POST 60 at all, they as usual skirt around it and make silly retorts, but NOT address it in detail whatsoever, but I know some of them who read it will have a nagging doubt and some even wrestle with it emotionally, then recovers quickly by ignoring it to maintain the dependence on a heavenly daddy they will never seem hear, or feel, it is a prison many live in without realizing it.

 

[Synthaholic]

Atheists don't make claims. That's what theists do.

You just made a claim.

This is you claiming that I'm not a theist.

Atheists claim theists are mistaken.

False. They ask for evidence and proof.

Why don’t atheists bear the burden of proof? Are they just lazy? Or afraid? Let’s stop the cheap debater’s tricks.

Proof of what?

Do you think theists are mistaken? A yes or no would be great.

I think they have yet to offer any evidence.

Jesus tells this story and it is likely true, since JESUS being God would have access to a wealth of information that the FATHER allowed HIM to glean when necessary...
Luke 16:19-31

New International Version

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

What seems most obvious to me is that Abraham is inferring the Resurrection of CHRIST. The dead "once rich" man's brothers were likely alive when JESUS would die and rise again. HOWEVER, they had no care for the prophets, no care for the scripture, no care for a man called JESUS, and only contempt for the reported Resurrection stories that would circulate. They were doomed!

I think they have yet to offer any evidence.

I think you have yet to really seek the evidence for yourself. GOD is a personal GOD ---- one on one. You need to ask HIM to reveal HIMSELF to you. But comfort is not all GOD is about. No pain, no gain...

Even if he reveals himself to me - that's not evidence. That is now me also spreading a story.

 

[ChemEngineer]

I don't have to prove that GOD exists. I know it. I know it even more sure than that I had a Great-great-great grandfather. If you are not interested or don't wish to explore creation, history, and prophetic reality ----- that is on your head and not mine. I've certainly persevered and am willing to continue; however, there does come a time when the disciple is told to shake the dust from his sandals and move on to those who the LORD has be encouraging to show interest...

Go from the presence of a foolish man.

A fool hates rebuke but a wise man loves it.

Valid criticism does you a favor. - Carl Sagan, Demon Haunted World

 

[Thunderbird]

Hey Synthaholic, What would constitute evidence?

Objective Reality Doesn't Exist, Quantum Experiment Shows

A quantum experiment raises deeply philosophical questions about the fundamental nature of reality.

www.livescience.com

 

[Sunsettommy]

There are hundreds more.......

"My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways." - Nature's God

Because you misunderstand does not make it wrong. You don't know a fraction of a fraction of reality.

Proof There Is No God

ProofThereIsNoGod.blogspot.com

I see no counterpoints to the easy to read bible errors I posted, how come that is always the case when I put Christians on the spot, they either completely ignore it or post an evasive long winded link that doesn't address it.

You intentionally misunderstand and misinterpret Bible passages. You put nobody on the spot with your ignorant misunderstanding. Not cool. Your outlandish idea that the universe made itself is preposterous on its face and yet you persist in it.

Your pretense that you are *smarter* than non-atheists is contradicted by your claims, your beliefs, your social and scientific failures, and your personal miseries which are thoroughly documented.

We feel sorry for you and your arrogant brethren. You make your own hell and live in it.

you can interpret the bible many ways

There are very few honest ways to interpret scripture, and the only one valid is with guidance from the Holy Spirit. Now a passage of scripture can have more than one meaning; however, those means don't contradict but enhance each other. I've never been unhappy when following CHRIST. It is when I don't that I find myself at whits end. I cannot imagine life without GOD ----- it cannot be a joyous one...

The honest way YOU should respond is address the post 60 as it is, all of it came from the bible, but you will refuse because that requires critical thinking which Theists can't allow or they would realize there are indeed serious contradiction and impossibilities to overcome. It is the typical response of those who invest heavily in a FAITH because there is no specific evidence that god exist, that is why faith is pushed so hard, it is the way to maintain a delusion.

Since I left religion as being a Deacon in church in 1990, my life became better and happier for it. Have bought Telescopes to enjoyed the Night Sky, Once owned a 25" F5 Obsession Telescope of which I gave THOUSANDS of people free viewing in City Parks and at The Oregon Star Party, now I own an 18* F 4.5 Telescope.

You have no idea what it is like to be free of an old delusion, one that causes many church members to suffer, one where they have been exploited many times over the centuries by the church. They were kept illiterate, serfs for centuries, thus given a bunch of NON biblical based religious practices that required money or you be punished, sometimes with loss of limbs. It is basically a money based racket clothed in beautiful paintings, sculptures and expensive churches (the bible never supports such arrangement) Some pastors charge money for prayers, and request funding to keep their silly local TV show on the air in a saturated Christian public...., why the continual drive to keep people tied to church rituals, when the bible itself doesn't require it.

Cheers.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Hey Synthaholic, What would constitute evidence?

Objective Reality Doesn't Exist, Quantum Experiment Shows

A quantum experiment raises deeply philosophical questions about the fundamental nature of reality.

www.livescience.com

The bible itself fails to provide that god exist "evidence" which is why you people run on FAITH, not evidence which requires reality to creep in.

Will you take up the dreaded post 60 challenge?

Snicker......

 

[Thunderbird]

There are hundreds more.......

"My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways." - Nature's God

Because you misunderstand does not make it wrong. You don't know a fraction of a fraction of reality.

Proof There Is No God

ProofThereIsNoGod.blogspot.com

I see no counterpoints to the easy to read bible errors I posted, how come that is always the case when I put Christians on the spot, they either completely ignore it or post an evasive long winded link that doesn't address it.

You intentionally misunderstand and misinterpret Bible passages. You put nobody on the spot with your ignorant misunderstanding. Not cool. Your outlandish idea that the universe made itself is preposterous on its face and yet you persist in it.

Your pretense that you are *smarter* than non-atheists is contradicted by your claims, your beliefs, your social and scientific failures, and your personal miseries which are thoroughly documented.

We feel sorry for you and your arrogant brethren. You make your own hell and live in it.

you can interpret the bible many ways

There are very few honest ways to interpret scripture, and the only one valid is with guidance from the Holy Spirit. Now a passage of scripture can have more than one meaning; however, those means don't contradict but enhance each other. I've never been unhappy when following CHRIST. It is when I don't that I find myself at whits end. I cannot imagine life without GOD ----- it cannot be a joyous one...

The honest way YOU should respond is address the post 60 as it is, all of it came from the bible, but you will refuse because that requires critical thinking which Theists can't allow or they would realize there are indeed serious contradiction and impossibilities to overcome. It is the typical response of those who invest heavily in a FAITH because there is no specific evidence that god exist, that is why faith is pushed so hard, it is the way to maintain a delusion.

Since I left religion as being a Deacon in church in 1990, my life became better and happier for it. Have bought Telescopes to enjoyed the Night Sky, Once owned a 25" F5 Obsession Telescope of which I gave THOUSANDS of people free viewing in City Parks and at The Oregon Star Party, now I own an 18* F 4.5 Telescope.

You have no idea what it is like to be free of an old delusion, one that causes many church members to suffer, one where they have been exploited many times over the centuries by the church. They were kept illiterate, serfs for centuries, thus given a bunch of NON biblical based religious practices that required money or you be punished, sometimes with loss of limbs. It is basically a money based racket clothed in beautiful paintings, sculptures and expensive churches (the bible never supports such arrangement) Some pastors charge money for prayers, and request funding to keep their silly local TV show on the air in a saturated Christian public...., why the continual drive to keep people tied to church rituals, when the bible itself doesn't require it.

Cheers.

Are religious people happier, healthier? Our new global study explores this question

In many countries, actively religious people are more likely than their less-religious peers to describe themselves as very happy.

www.pewresearch.org

Christians are Happier - Ways to Faith

Christians are happier than their secular counterparts, with less suicide, depression, longer lifespan and healthier lifestyle.

waystofaith.net

 

[Thunderbird]

Hey Synthaholic, What would constitute evidence?

Objective Reality Doesn't Exist, Quantum Experiment Shows

A quantum experiment raises deeply philosophical questions about the fundamental nature of reality.

www.livescience.com

The bible itself fails to provide that god exist "evidence" which is why you people run on FAITH, not evidence which requires reality to creep in.

Will you take up the dreaded post 60 challenge?

Snicker......

Many theists employ reason and think there is a God, while some atheists are irrational. Some atheists are also extremely intolerant: China's War on Religion | Persecution

 

[Sunsettommy]

There are hundreds more.......

"My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways." - Nature's God

Because you misunderstand does not make it wrong. You don't know a fraction of a fraction of reality.

Proof There Is No God

ProofThereIsNoGod.blogspot.com

I see no counterpoints to the easy to read bible errors I posted, how come that is always the case when I put Christians on the spot, they either completely ignore it or post an evasive long winded link that doesn't address it.

You intentionally misunderstand and misinterpret Bible passages. You put nobody on the spot with your ignorant misunderstanding. Not cool. Your outlandish idea that the universe made itself is preposterous on its face and yet you persist in it.

Your pretense that you are *smarter* than non-atheists is contradicted by your claims, your beliefs, your social and scientific failures, and your personal miseries which are thoroughly documented.

We feel sorry for you and your arrogant brethren. You make your own hell and live in it.

you can interpret the bible many ways

There are very few honest ways to interpret scripture, and the only one valid is with guidance from the Holy Spirit. Now a passage of scripture can have more than one meaning; however, those means don't contradict but enhance each other. I've never been unhappy when following CHRIST. It is when I don't that I find myself at whits end. I cannot imagine life without GOD ----- it cannot be a joyous one...

The honest way YOU should respond is address the post 60 as it is, all of it came from the bible, but you will refuse because that requires critical thinking which Theists can't allow or they would realize there are indeed serious contradiction and impossibilities to overcome. It is the typical response of those who invest heavily in a FAITH because there is no specific evidence that god exist, that is why faith is pushed so hard, it is the way to maintain a delusion.

Since I left religion as being a Deacon in church in 1990, my life became better and happier for it. Have bought Telescopes to enjoyed the Night Sky, Once owned a 25" F5 Obsession Telescope of which I gave THOUSANDS of people free viewing in City Parks and at The Oregon Star Party, now I own an 18* F 4.5 Telescope.

You have no idea what it is like to be free of an old delusion, one that causes many church members to suffer, one where they have been exploited many times over the centuries by the church. They were kept illiterate, serfs for centuries, thus given a bunch of NON biblical based religious practices that required money or you be punished, sometimes with loss of limbs. It is basically a money based racket clothed in beautiful paintings, sculptures and expensive churches (the bible never supports such arrangement) Some pastors charge money for prayers, and request funding to keep their silly local TV show on the air in a saturated Christian public...., why the continual drive to keep people tied to church rituals, when the bible itself doesn't require it.

Cheers.

Are religious people happier, healthier? Our new global study explores this question

In many countries, actively religious people are more likely than their less-religious peers to describe themselves as very happy.

www.pewresearch.org

Christians are Happier - Ways to Faith

Christians are happier than their secular counterparts, with less suicide, depression, longer lifespan and healthier lifestyle.

waystofaith.net

Ha ha ha......

Another religionists who can't face the bibles own contradictions at all, this is what people do when their FAITH is under pressure, they go around looking for links and manufactured rationalizations to spew out thus, justify ignoring post 60.

It is the religionists who starts 95% of wars, who generate civil wars and interfere with non religious people lives.