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Let's Examine the Claims of Atheists

Viktor

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Go from the presence of a foolish man, Viktor my Friend.
You have an Ignore function. Use it, please.

Remember Brandolini's Law.
Are you a Christian?
 

Viktor

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Viktor, a man of God. Angels dance at your testimonies.

May God bless you and expand your territory.
You want a laugh?I have tried to post that link you like on numerous atheist websites and forums. 75% of them reject it.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
 

Turtlesoup

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Let's Examine Claims of Atheists

The Fallacy of Science vs. Religion

The atheists' frequent claim that science and religion are mutually exclusive is demonstrably false. If atheists were as "rational" and "intelligent" as they are always claiming, they would not resort to mendacity. Science pursues truth.

The list of scientists as men and women faith is long and growing.

List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia

“Science is not only compatible with spirituality, it is a profound source of spirituality. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.”
” - Demon Haunted World, page 29, by Carl Sagan

“I believe in God more because of science than in spite of it.” – William Phillips, Nobel Laureate in Physics
_____________________________________

The Atheist Claim of Rationality and Intellectual Superiority


If atheists are, on average, intellectually superior to people of faith, then why do they abandon their religious belief in atheism at a rate higher than any other group? (The Supreme Court has adjudged atheism a religion.)




Atheists marry less, by far, than those of faith.

Recently the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life has published its mammoth study on Religion in America based on 35,000 interviews... According to the Pew Forum a whopping 37% of atheists never marry as opposed to 19% of the American population, 17% of Protestants and 17% of Catholics.[3]
The religious have better mental health into adulthood.
The abstract for the journal article Health and Well-Being Among the Non-religious: Atheists, Agnostics, and No Preference Compared with Religious Group Members published in the Journal of Religion and Health indicates: "On dimensions related to psychological well-being, atheists and agnostics tended to have worse outcomes than either those with religious affiliation or those with no religious preference."[2]
Global News reported:
“ Children who are raised with religious or spiritual beliefs tend to have better mental health into their adulthood, a new study from the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health found.
According to the study’s findings, people who attended weekly religious services or prayed or meditated daily in their childhood reported greater life satisfaction in their 20s. People who grew up in a religious household also reported fewer symptoms of depression and lower rates of post-traumatic stress disorder.[3]
People of faith live longer than atheists.
For the study, a team of Ohio University academics, including associate professor of psychology Christian End, analysed more than 1,500 obituaries from across the US to piece together how the defining features of our lives affect our longevity.
These records include religious affiliations and marriage details as well as information on activities, hobbies and habits, which can help or hinder our health, not otherwise captured in census data.

The study, published in Social Psychological and Personality Science today, found that on average people whose obituary mentioned they were religious lived an extra 5.64 years.
Atheists commit suicide far more often than those of faith, which is clearly not "rational"
"Atheism: Contemporary Rates and Patterns" in The Cambridge Companion to Atheism, ed. by Michael Martin, Cambridge University Press: Cambridge, UK (2005). In examining various indicators of societal health, Zuckerman concludes about suicide:
"Concerning suicide rates, this is the one indicator of societal health in which religious nations fare much better than secular nations. According to the 2003 World Health Organization's report on international male suicides rates (which compared 100 countries), of the top ten nations with the highest male suicide rates, all but one (Sri Lanka) are strongly irreligious nations with high levels of atheism. It is interesting to note, however, that of the top remaining nine nations leading the world in male suicide rates, all are former Soviet/Communist nations, such as Belarus, Ukraine, and Latvia. Of the bottom ten nations with the lowest male suicide rates, all are highly religious nations with statistically insignificant levels of organic atheism."[3]
The list of atheist shooters and serial killers does not correspond to claims of intellectual superiority and rationality.

Atheists have a long record of being mass shooters and militant atheism in general has a causal association with mass murder.
Due to this fact, peer reviewed research published in academic journals has found that society-at-large is likely to hold atheists responsible for capital criminal acts and that even atheists are likely to assume that serial killers are fellow atheists.[2][3][4]
_______________________________________

“The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advance of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble.” – Adolf Hitler

"...indoctrinating them (scholars) with materialism, atheism, and the theory of evolution - the Chinese Communist Party systematically brainwashed a new generation of students, instilling hatred toward traditional culture. ... the CCP promoted atheism and launched ideological attacks against the belief in god.... using methods of violence and high pressure to suppress, persecute and, eliminate religions including the murder of religious practitioners." - The Epoch Times, July 29, 2019


Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins became atheists after long and exhaustive rational inquiries into the existence of God, both at the age of nine. - The Irrational Atheist, by Vox Day, page 243

The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined. – The Irrational Atheist, by Vox Day, page 240


Irrational Atheism

Atheists always claim to be more rational and more intelligent than Christians. They do not provide evidence of their arrogant, pretentious claim, but even if they did, it does not begin to prove their claim that God does not exist. Implied but not stated is the presumption that BECAUSE atheists are much smarter than you are, THEY must be right, and YOU must be wrong. That does not logically follow, and is a clear Fallacy of the Argument From Authority. So the statement of intellectual superiority itself is irrational.


Atheists claim that "there is no proof" of God. They seem blissfully ignorant of the fact that proof only exists in mathematics. So says mathematics professor John Lennox, of Oxford University.

His remark is echoed by the late Carl Sagan, a militant agnostic and Leftist, who said, "Nothing is known for certain except in pure mathematics." Atheists seem to dispute even their beloved Carl Sagan as they insist that they know for certain that Darwin was indisputably right, though it is not known "for certain," according to Sagan, and therefore, what need for God? Atheists Stalin and Hitler agreed wholeheartedly.
Ummmm...NO.
 

Turtlesoup

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Atheism as a Religion: A Book Excerpt

By Mike Dobbins


One sacred symbol to atheists is the 'A' that symbolizes atheism. Three 'A' symbols are prominent in atheism. One 'A' symbol was created in 2007 by Atheist Alliance International and has a circle around it. The circle is meant to symbolize the unity of all atheists and the inclusion of all other atheist symbols. As you can tell, not only are these symbols for atheism, there is atheist religious symbolism within them that only atheists or those who study atheism know.

A second popular 'A' symbol was created by Richard Dawkins and is a red letter 'A' on a right leaning slant. The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) has adopted this symbol to represent it when they set up monuments to atheism. The third sacred 'A' symbol was created by the American Atheists and is placed in the middle of an atomic circle. The organization chose this as their symbol in 1963 to demonstrate their faith that science can save and free mankind. The letter 'A' stands in the middle of the atomic sign but rather than meaning atheism, it represents the first letter of the country in which the group is located. This obviously leads to problems since 'A' could stand for Austria, Algeria, Australia, and so on, but I suppose they weren't thinking that far ahead. The Atomic A, as it is known, is allowed on gravestones of U.S. military personnel who are atheists. Atheism is so sacred to some atheists that they want the atheist 'A' to represent them to the world after their death.

Many atheists demonstrated just how sacred the symbol 'A' is to them in the Christmas of 2013. Since my hometown city of Chicago allows a Hanukkah Menorah and Nativity scene to display on government property during the holiday season, the atheists asked to display their own religious symbol so the government wouldn't give the appearance to be endorsing one religion or the other. The monument the Freedom From Religion Foundation chose was a giant Richard Dawkins letter 'A' which stood 8 feet tall and lit up red at night for all to see. Countless atheists showed respect for the 'A' by making a pilgrimage to the site where the 'A' was displayed and having their picture taken with the 'A' which I'm sure will be kept as a cherished keep sake for many. Still, the giant red A was not enough. They also advocated for their atheist faith by erecting a sign that read, "There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

/////

To which ChemEngineer adds their religious symbols:

View attachment 475895
So having a LOGO for their organization makes them a religion? Really?
 
OP
ChemEngineer

ChemEngineer

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You want a laugh?I have tried to post that link you like on numerous atheist websites and forums. 75% of them reject it.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
They censor everything Christian, calling us "trolls" and "ignorant" and "anti-science, irrational," you name it. But they relentlessly invade Christian websites and forums and call their actions "free speech." "Are you afraid of us?"

Lying, two-faced hypocrites, cowards.
 

Viktor

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They censor everything Christian, calling us "trolls" and "ignorant" and "anti-science, irrational," you name it. But they relentlessly invade Christian websites and forums and call their actions "free speech." "Are you afraid of us?"

Lying, two-faced hypocrites, cowards.
I'm a Jew. They don't like Judaism, either.
 
OP
ChemEngineer

ChemEngineer

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So having a LOGO for their organization makes them a religion? Really?
Try not to lose your water, but the Supreme Court has adjudicated that atheism is a religion.
It is a fervent belief system, with rituals, symbols, books, and beliefs all of which begin with God, without which nothing. Ironic, ignorant, irrational, but hey, you defend it ardently.

I suggest you read two books:

The Irrational Atheist by Vox Day and Illogical Atheism by Bo Jinn. Both are former militant atheists, like you are now! They know your lingo and arguments backwards and forwards and shred all of them, elegantly, eloquently, and entertainingly. You have much to learn, Grasshopper. Better get started. This is important stuff.
 

Turtlesoup

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I'm a Jew. They don't like Judaism, either.
That's not true....Jews tend to be more intelligent and atleast usually know what the Torah and bible say. Jews also don't tend to try to force their religion on others who clearly don't want to convert.
 

Viktor

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That's not true....Jews tend to be more intelligent and atleast usually know what the Torah and bible say. Jews also don't tend to try to force their religion on others who clearly don't want to convert.
Jews are forbidden to proselytize. What I told Chem is that atheists distort and lie about the Old Testament and Torah. too. They claim there is no evidence that The Exodus took place and claim Moses never existed.
 

Turtlesoup

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Try not to lose your water, but the Supreme Court has adjudicated that atheism is a religion.
It is a fervent belief system, with rituals, symbols, books, and beliefs all of which begin with God, without which nothing. Ironic, ignorant, irrational, but hey, you defend it ardently.

I suggest you read two books:

The Irrational Atheist by Vox Day and Illogical Atheism by Bo Jinn. Both are former militant atheists, like you are now! They know your lingo and arguments backwards and forwards and shred all of them, elegantly, eloquently, and entertainingly. You have much to learn, Grasshopper. Better get started. This is important stuff.
I'm an atheist ...and I don't have any rituals, symbols, or books on it. I simply figured out that the bible was a collection of fables back when I started to read half way decent at the age of 4. There is no arguing this fact......

But hey if you wanna call it a religion---how do I get to use this as a tax write off and for other little perks like getting out of the mandatory covid vaccines.
 

BreezeWood

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Jews are forbidden to proselytize. What I told Chem is that atheists distort and lie about the Old Testament and Torah. too. They claim there is no evidence that The Exodus took place and claim Moses never existed.
.
they also claim the desert religions have no remorse for their past crimes - against humanity - they uninterruptedly repeat for that very reason.
 

Turtlesoup

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Jews are forbidden to proselytize. What I told Chem is that atheists distort and lie about the Old Testament and Torah. too. They claim there is no evidence that The Exodus took place and claim Moses never existed.
Exodus? Likely took place but not HOW or the size of it told in the bible. People did leave Egypt----BUT the numbers that the bible claims would have certainly left scars on the Planet if it had occur. Ergo it did not take place as reported.

Don't know why you think atheists don't think that Moses existed. Most of the stories are stolen from other cultures and/are clearly exaggerations. I for one truly think that Jesus existed in some form but that he wasn't the child of a god---just a bastard of an unmarried 12 or early teen. Babies born out of wedlock, or created before wedlock, were called the children of god back then and there were MANY of them. Think Jesus was just a con man---who "rode the mule/donkey from the gate" that the prophet was claimed to eventually come in through--trying to promote this false narrative of being a child of god to gain whatever goodies he could scam this way. Conmen have been around since forever.

I read an article long ago about Moses perhaps also being based on an actual person but greatly exaggerated as well. Don't recall much about the article but I think likely all of the characters in the bible like modern day characters in movies were based on real people LOOSELY.
 
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ChemEngineer

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I'm an atheist ...and I don't have any rituals, symbols, or books on it. I simply figured out that the bible was a collection of fables back when I started to read half way decent at the age of 4. There is no arguing this fact......

But hey if you wanna call it a religion---how do I get to use this as a tax write off and for other little perks like getting out of the mandatory covid vaccines.
At the advanced age of "4" you converted to atheism. How wise and mature of you.
"Rational." "Scientific."

Richard Dawkins converted to atheism at the sophisticated age of .... 9.

Done with you. To my Ignore List. ciao brutto

Are Atheists Right?
 
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ChemEngineer

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Tens of thousands of men released from prisons across America converted to Christianity while incarcerated. It gave them hope. They have testified to anyone who would listen.

Tell us, atheists, how many prisoners have testified of their conversion to atheism and claimed how important it was to their once miserable life? Where are their testimonies and websites?

People of faith have built churches and hospitals and universities and grade schools and orphanages and homes for unwed mothers around the world. What have atheists done besides spew hatred and arrogance and condescension?

Don't bother to answer. You have nothing but lies, damnable lies.
 

BreezeWood

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Tens of thousands of men released from prisons across America converted to Christianity while incarcerated. It gave them hope. They have testified to anyone who would listen.

Tell us, atheists, how many prisoners have testified of their conversion to atheism and claimed how important it was to their once miserable life? Where are their testimonies and websites?

People of faith have built churches and hospitals and universities and grade schools and orphanages and homes for unwed mothers around the world. What have atheists done besides spew hatred and arrogance and condescension?

Don't bother to answer. You have nothing but lies, damnable lies.
.
People of faith have built churches and hospitals and universities and grade schools and orphanages and homes for unwed mothers around the world.
Don't bother to answer. You have nothing but lies, damnable lies.
.
again the christian cancer - lies over their most prominent place in history.
.
1630106873524.png

.
who are not bible belt christians are few and far between, not just this country but world wide from the 4th century to the present day.
 

malikc6

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There are arguments against atheism, but from what I've read, at best a theist could perhaps convince an atheist to become a DEIST. The philosophical concept of believing in god based on REASON than faith. The idea that god could be found in nature. Deism makes an interesting case. I wish that theists focused more on arguing in favor of deism than favor of a religious/personal god. The reality is, there's no evidence that Jesus Christ is God himself, or any other figure being the one true god. Faith alone from reading the bible repeatedly isn't going to cut it for not just atheists, but people of other faiths as well.

The issue with Abrahamic faith in all of its forms, is that they're very absolutist and limited. I find Abrahamic faith to be very close minded and ignorant on many subjects/topics/issues concerning human nature. By its nature, you're either with them, or against them with VERY little grey areas. When the church still had a lot of power in ancient history, certain things were declared to be heresy. Many free thinking philosophers that questioned Christianity were banished, imprisoned, or killed. Them along with other religious practitioners that were not Christian.

Threads like this are just another example of Abrahamic faith's absolutism. There's a reason why many Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Jews, and others within Abrahamic faith can never really agree with each other collectively. Look at these Wikipedia articles showing numerous denominations of Abrahamic faith.




To add to this, I have a friend that is an East Orthodox Christian radical, and he's also a monarchist. His views are VERY different than common protestant Christians. He hates Protestantism with a passion and actually thinks that Protestantism is what eventually leads to atheism. Same with Calvinism.

Aside from the denominations and variations, when you have a great many people follow a faith that portrays itself as the "One True Faith", that already is going to lead to numerous problems. Worse is that Abrahamic faith makes it clear that other religions/faiths/practices are Satanic and false, and should be condemned and/or destroyed, even for petty reasons. This type of thinking immediately creates an "Us against them" mentality.

Those that are really convinced of their denomination of whatever sort being the one true faith are almost impossible to fully reason with. Especially if they got into their faith based on certain events like trauma. One member said that many prisoners converted to Christianity while in prison. Sure it gives them hope and many attempt to make themselves and the world a better place (not against that at all), but their hope and better morale doesn't prove anything above them just improving as a better person thanks to their faith. One could become a Hindu and gain the exact same results. One could become a Jainist, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikhist, spiritualist, or anything that promotes good ethics, morality, and hope.

Followers that are fully convinced (radicals, diehards, militants, extremists, evangelicals) are going to always be heavily biased in favor of their belief and will be as critical as possible to other differing views while trying to defend theirs. How effective this is depends on the individual. Sure other religions that aren't affiliated with Abrahamic faith sometimes engage in this behavior, but it's very rarely seen. I don't know any diehard Hindus going to house to house trying to teach people about spiritual enlightenment and Krishna, or Buddhists going to house to house and telling them about the Buddha and the Middle Path. Most people aren't even aware of other religions outside of the most dominant ones.

Now we have bigger fish to fry. I'll be giving my thoughts on Christianity in the United States.

I often hear many Christians in particular complain about how the moral fabric of society is collapsing. How people are normalizing behaviors and activities that in the past we're often met with disgust, aggression, and social isolation. Homosexuality, transpeople, feminism, gender roles, anti nationalism, OTHER RELIGIONS, and atheism just to name a few. I repeat, as a result of Abrahamic faith, these Christians have ABSOLUTE moral positions, and in turn ABSOLUTE political affiliations.

Many Christians feel that they're living in a society that they do not recognize. In the Bible, it tells of two cities named Sodom and Gomorrah. They were pagans that were said to be very sexually promiscuous and practiced human sacrifice. Aside those two cities, the Byzantine Empire witnessed tribes that practiced activities that were seen as deplorable and savage. Many of these tribes were conquered or flat out destroyed by early Christians, and some Christians justify the slaughter of other tribes by saying that God told them to do it, and that they were doing them a mercy for the ones that submitted to the Christians and converted.
To add to this point, many Christians see the USA as turning into one big Sodom or Gomorrah. A pagan ruled country that was once Christian, but was taken over from within because Christians became too lenient and accepting of other viewpoints. Moral relativism and free thinking are polar opposites to absolutism.

Absolutism DEFINITELY has its upsides. It's a very unifying way of thinking if done even sloppily. Structure and management comes easier both to the individual and the collective. It's one of the closest things to a hive mind. Even if there's some differences in beliefs, the MAIN beliefs and practices is what keeps people together. Opposing viewpoints are en masse shut down by any means, as those that keep said beliefs maintain power and influence over the rest of society. This is why when the church had a lot of power in the past, they did whatever they could to keep free thinkers and people of different religions suppressed. Even going as far as to stop scientific advancements if it proved it could undermine societal structure, and get people to question how things truly work. This is one of the reasons why the Byzantine Empire lasted so long.

The United States was a Christian nation for quite some time. Christianity is heavily embedded in our culture. The United States aside, many laws have been influenced largely (if not purely in some countries) by Abrahamic faith. A lot of people's morality have been influenced by the Bible and other variations.

Point being is that the culture is starting to quickly change as a new generation arises. The United States effectively is a secular nation. What's happening with the culture and the times was really only a matter of time. As long as the "One True Faith" doesn't have any governmental authority, people will eventually find their own paths whatever they may be. Consequences come from that as well, but I digress.

Abrahamic faith's absolutism cannot survive in secular environments. Either it gets overtaken by differing views, or reduced to some sort of moral relativism (already happening). There are Christian denominations that actually are in high agreement with faiths completely different than them. Their Bible says that other practices and beliefs are sinful and Satanic, but instead of following the Bible as it's written, they're now believing in what they wish to believe. This is a BIG ISSUE for many Christians. Some take the Bible literally while others take the Bible metaphorically, and others a little bit of both. There's a reason why there's so many denominations of Christianity alone.

When I see Christians arguing against others of different faiths or against atheists, to me it's just Christianity trying to keep itself relevant. While Christianity is dying in the West, there does remain a good amount that are very stubborn and radical and wish to keep it that way. I know individuals that only associate with other Christians as not wanting to be influenced by non Christians. They're trying very hard to keep it alive and hope one day to see it grow once again. They truly don't want to be in the minority as they're surrounded by essentially pagans and non believers influencing the government and what's moral.
 

surada

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They censor everything Christian, calling us "trolls" and "ignorant" and "anti-science, irrational," you name it. But they relentlessly invade Christian websites and forums and call their actions "free speech." "Are you afraid of us?"

Lying, two-faced hypocrites, cowards.

They couldn't be worse than Christians for Trump... talk about sleazy lies and slander.
 

Hollie

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Tens of thousands of men released from prisons across America converted to Christianity while incarcerated. It gave them hope. They have testified to anyone who would listen.

Tell us, atheists, how many prisoners have testified of their conversion to atheism and claimed how important it was to their once miserable life? Where are their testimonies and websites?

People of faith have built churches and hospitals and universities and grade schools and orphanages and homes for unwed mothers around the world. What have atheists done besides spew hatred and arrogance and condescension?

Don't bother to answer. You have nothing but lies, damnable lies.
Appearing before a parole board and claiming you found the Jeebus is an old tactic used by criminals.
 

surada

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Jews are forbidden to proselytize. What I told Chem is that atheists distort and lie about the Old Testament and Torah. too. They claim there is no evidence that The Exodus took place and claim Moses never existed.

The Jews weren't historians. They were story tellers.. Exodus is didactic literature. Its a morality tale of redemption.
 

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