Let me tell you something: Science and Politics

[TemplarKormac]

Wow! That is interesting. This is why I hang out here. I am 73 years old and can always learn something new.

You learn nothing by making assumptions. Please, continue as you were.

 

[TemplarKormac]

if someone is born with the chromosomes and gonads of one gender but the brain structure of another gender. Then what exactly does that mean?

Like I said. Hormones can dictate growth and structure. It tells the cells, and thereby proxy the DNA what to do and how to replicate.

If it's a mere matter of structure, the structure can be corrected. With ethical therapeutics, of course.

Like so. See the very first result.

what causes gender dysphoria - Google Search

 

[XponentialChaos]

Bigotry against homosexuality is not only on one side. But it is mostly on one side. Agree?

No. Bigotry against homosexuality is a universal character flaw.

That helps. It looks like our main difference stems from right here.

I generally see the left as more accepting of homosexual people.

5. Homosexuality, gender and religion

Over the past two decades, there has been a dramatic increase in public acceptance of homosexuality, as well as same-sex marriage. Still, the partisan

www.pewresearch.org

Gay marriage, for instance, has some pretty clear divisions among political party.

Attitudes on Same-Sex Marriage

In Pew Research Center polling in 2001, Americans opposed same-sex marriage by a margin of 57% to 35%. Since then, support for same-sex marriage has steadily grown.

www.pewforum.org

I pulled some quick charts to demonstrate this but I was under the impression that this was obvious. Maybe it isn’t?

 

[TemplarKormac]

If someone thinks they are a cow, which does happen, should surgeons attach a tail?

Gender and species are quite different.

In some cases that's true. But as far as homo sapiens is concerned, it isn't. Gender is what helps tell our species how to procreate.

I don't think that procreation is relevant in a discussion of trans people on a planet that is overpopulated and where transpeople comprise a much smaller percentage of the population than cisgender people who chose to not have children

My patience wears thin. I have even less patience with people who express eugenicist sentiments.

Make your point or go.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Gay marriage, for instance, has some pretty clear divisions among political party.

The opinions of gay marriage are/were influenced by religion, not by political belief. It is an irrational fear of something that does not harm me or you. On the other hand, it doesn't mean the party you're a part of is any more accepting of gay people than the opposing one.

You mislead yourself if you think the Democratic party is one giant amalgam of ideas and beliefs. It isn't. No political party is.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I pulled some quick charts to demonstrate this but I was under the impression that this was obvious. Maybe it isn’t?

What you see as "obvious" I see as more nuanced and a tad more complex.

 

[Juicin]

Males are disposable losing some to homoerotic shit is probably good for social cohesion

I can't help but resent that, being male. We are not disposable. Without males, the females are incapable of reproducing. That's science.

Well you need a lot less males than females, which is also science...?

Also why we're generally the disposable gender.

There is no replacing a lost womb. Much easier to produce a lost sire

I have a feeling this is more of a slippery slope than a well-meaning topic of discussion.

It's reality

men have little value it's why we kill each other and take the women

Not that complex really.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Males are disposable losing some to homoerotic shit is probably good for social cohesion

I can't help but resent that, being male. We are not disposable. Without males, the females are incapable of reproducing. That's science.

Well you need a lot less males than females, which is also science...?

Also why we're generally the disposable gender.

There is no replacing a lost womb. Much easier to produce a lost sire

I have a feeling this is more of a slippery slope than a well-meaning topic of discussion.

It's reality

men have little value it's why we kill each other and take the women

Not that complex really.

Such absolutist nonsense.

Sperm is useless without an egg to implant into. An egg is useless and is discarded menstrually without proper stimuli from a sperm.

 

[XponentialChaos]

The opinions of gay marriage are/were influenced by religion, not by political belief. It is an irrational fear of something that does not harm me or you. On the other hand, it doesn't mean the party you're a part of is any more accepting of gay people than the opposing one.

You mislead yourself if you think the Democratic party is one giant amalgam of ideas and beliefs. It isn't. No political party is.

What you see as "obvious" I see as more nuanced and a tad more complex.

So what am I missing here?

Looks to me like one party is generally more accepting of homosexuality than the other.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The opinions of gay marriage are/were influenced by religion, not by political belief. It is an irrational fear of something that does not harm me or you. On the other hand, it doesn't mean the party you're a part of is any more accepting of gay people than the opposing one.

You mislead yourself if you think the Democratic party is one giant amalgam of ideas and beliefs. It isn't. No political party is.

What you see as "obvious" I see as more nuanced and a tad more complex.

What am I missing here? Looks to me like one party is more accepting of homosexuality than the other.

View attachment 463177

What are you missing?

The fact that 54 percent of Rep/Lean Rep think homosexuality should be accepted by society. That's more than half of the Republican party.

 

[XponentialChaos]

What are you missing?

The fact that 54 percent of Rep/Lean Rep think homosexuality should be accepted by society. That's more than half of the Republican party.

Right. Which is much less than the percentage by the Democratic party.

My point being that the left is generally more accepting of homosexuality than the right.

 

[Votto]

It was not long ago that people who thought they were the opposite sex was declared mentally ill by the medical community, as well as those who desired to have sex with their same sex, etc.

I wonder, what scientific breakthrough convinced them it was "normal" and not a disorder?

Anyone?

People through the ages have, at times, called many normal things, abnormal or "mental illness". That doesn't mean they were right.

People who disagree with those conditions are being normal are being canceled from society. Children are being taught this and now there is an epidemic of gender confusion in children as a result.

So who says the Left is right? Who died and made them god over pretty much everything?

Are they being canceled? I kind of think that is the new buzzword. We used to call it "boycotts" and "social pressure" to enact change, like they boycotted Disney because of it's gay friendly policies.

I have never heard of any epidemic of gender confusion.

Who says the right is right? Who died and them god over everything? Who gave them the right to decide who get's to be considered "normal" (part of the in-group" or "abnormal" (that which must be fixed or eradicated)?

Children are being taught this in school and many messed up for life because of it. That is the big issue here.

So if you don't believe that the gender crap being sold to us is the truth, why are children being indoctrinated with it?

 

[TemplarKormac]

What are you missing?

The fact that 54 percent of Rep/Lean Rep think homosexuality should be accepted by society. That's more than half of the Republican party.

Right. Which is much less than the percentage by the Democratic party.

My point being that the left is generally more accepting of homosexuality than the right.

And why are we keeping score? Hatred and bigotry are not unique to any political party. Then again, 54% of the Republican party puts the ax to your stereotypical perceptions of conservative views on homosexuality in general.

Are you so consumed by politics that you can't see human nature for what it is?

 

[TemplarKormac]

(From table on left)

From 2006 to 2017, nineteen percent more conservative Republicans indicated that homosexuality should be accepted by society.

That tells me they are becoming more accepting to homosexuality, not less, and, that if they were less tolerant or accepting of homosexuality, you would see a marked decrease in the number.

 

[XponentialChaos]

And why are we keeping score? Hatred and bigotry are not unique to any political party. Then again, 54% of the Republican party puts the ax to your stereotypical perceptions of conservative views of homosexuality in general.

Are you so consumed by politics that you can't see human nature for what it is?

Well my line of questioning stemmed from the fact that you align yourself with a belief system that is much more likely to think less of you, as shown in the charts. That’s why I’m having such a difficult time understanding your position.

I think we can cut it there. I’m not sure if any more value will be gained. I still don’t really get it but thanks for your time.

Have a good one.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Every now and then, I will post threads beginning with the title "Let me tell you something."

Let me tell you something:

If you "identify" as LGBT, you probably aren't. You either are born that way or you simply aren't. I can say with confidence that I myself am gay. There is a history of that in my family. The indicators are there.

It's the same principle as gender, you're born male or female, identifying as the opposite gender does not make you that gender.

If we extol the sciences to the point of being sacrosanct, then let the science speak on both ends of the ideological spectrum.

That, or don't claim you listen to or respect science. Your choice. But don't lecture me about science if you only pick and choose what parts of it to believe.

(And for those who will undoubtedly bring up climate change: Yes, I believe in climate change, but not in the idea that humans are a direct cause of it. Those views are also backed by science. That is another thread entirely, however. I will not address those arguments here.)

> I can say with confidence that I myself am gay.

Then go be gay, just don't expect anything more than the same treatment as everyone else.

The Declaration of Independence says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution says, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

And the Civil Rights Act of 1964 might also be relevant, even though it does not specifically mention sexual orientation.

I support your right to pursue your happiness as you see fit, as long as you are law-abiding and do not harm others.

Love whom you want to love.

The Dems will tell you that you are oppressed. Conversely, I will welcome you with open arms, and tell you that you have equal opportunity to make the best of what you are gifted with, and if you want to quit being labeled as "marginalized," you should join use Conservatives.

This is so gay, it made my heterosexual self smile widely...

 

[TemplarKormac]

Then go be gay, just don't expect anything more than the same treatment as everyone else.

Why would I?

 

[TemplarKormac]

And why are we keeping score? Hatred and bigotry are not unique to any political party. Then again, 54% of the Republican party puts the ax to your stereotypical perceptions of conservative views of homosexuality in general.

Are you so consumed by politics that you can't see human nature for what it is?

Well my line of questioning stemmed from the fact that you align yourself with a belief system that is much more likely to think less of you, as shown in the charts. That’s why I’m having such a difficult time understanding your position.

I think we can cut it there. I’m not sure if any more value will be gained. I still don’t really get it but thanks for your time.

Have a good one.

Later bro.

 

[Coyote]

It was not long ago that people who thought they were the opposite sex was declared mentally ill by the medical community, as well as those who desired to have sex with their same sex, etc.

I wonder, what scientific breakthrough convinced them it was "normal" and not a disorder?

Anyone?

People through the ages have, at times, called many normal things, abnormal or "mental illness". That doesn't mean they were right.

People who disagree with those conditions are being normal are being canceled from society. Children are being taught this and now there is an epidemic of gender confusion in children as a result.

So who says the Left is right? Who died and made them god over pretty much everything?

Are they being canceled? I kind of think that is the new buzzword. We used to call it "boycotts" and "social pressure" to enact change, like they boycotted Disney because of it's gay friendly policies.

I have never heard of any epidemic of gender confusion.

Who says the right is right? Who died and them god over everything? Who gave them the right to decide who get's to be considered "normal" (part of the in-group" or "abnormal" (that which must be fixed or eradicated)?

Children are being taught this in school and many messed up for life because of it. That is the big issue here.

So if you don't believe that the gender crap being sold to us is the truth, why are children being indoctrinated with it?

Got any actual data to support your claim that many are messed up for life as a result of learning that gender might not be binary?

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Then go be gay, just don't expect anything more than the same treatment as everyone else.

Why would I?

I dunno, but starting a thread about my sexual orientation is not something I would do. Seems irrelevant.

Cool.