LeakGate Resolution:Bush's genius.

[rtwngAvngr]

They should have thought about this before. It's not a leak, it's a strategic declassification of information. :rotflmao: The dems are steaming mad!

 

[jillian]

They should have thought about this before. It's not a leak, it's a strategic declassification of information. :rotflmao: The dems are steaming mad!

While you might accept the concept of an all-powerful, unitary and unchecked executive, and might agree with Bush's views (although this would put you in a minority of about 1/3 of the country), the words "Bush" and "genius" do not belong in the same sentence, except in the negative.

Oh...and FYI, the president has the right to establish procedures whereby information is deemed classified and even change those procedures from time to time, he does not have the right to follow "No Procedures" in declassifying information to achieve a tactical political goal, thereby reducing classified information to nothing more than propaganda.

 

[CSM]

While you might accept the concept of an all-powerful, unitary and unchecked executive, and might agree with Bush's views (although this would put you in a minority of about 1/3 of the country), the words "Bush" and "genius" do not belong in the same sentence, except in the negative.

Oh...and FYI, the president has the right to establish procedures whereby information is deemed classified and even change those procedures from time to time, he does not have the right to follow "No Procedures" in declassifying information to achieve a tactical political goal, thereby reducing classified information to nothing more than propaganda.

You are of course entitled to your opinion on whether the current President is a genius or not, but your assertions hold no more weight than anyone elses. Thus your admonission to RWA is merely 'fluff'. It does tell us where you stand though, so thanks for that. We needed anothe Bush hater on this board.

Just so ya know, the President does indeed have the right to declassify anything he wants to and the procedure is (as is true for most things classified in nature) is for final authority to declare it unclassified. Since the president is the Commander in Chief, he is the final authority on intelligence concerning the war on terror which includes operations in Iraq.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

While you might accept the concept of an all-powerful, unitary and unchecked executive, and might agree with Bush's views (although this would put you in a minority of about 1/3 of the country), the words "Bush" and "genius" do not belong in the same sentence, except in the negative.

Oh...and FYI, the president has the right to establish procedures whereby information is deemed classified and even change those procedures from time to time, he does not have the right to follow "No Procedures" in declassifying information to achieve a tactical political goal, thereby reducing classified information to nothing more than propaganda.

Wow. That's a lot of big words. He can change the procedure to "no procedure" and back again, with internal memos to himself.

You need to let this go. Plame wasn't undercover and was never put in jeopardy. Wilson was on a fishing trip to get information to discredit the president without the authority of anyone but his honey bunny. And you know what, despite forged documents, which the forgers wanted to sell, the country in question WAS seeking yellow cake. It is logically possible for there to forged documents regarding an event AND that event also be true. Just ask Dan Rather.

 

[Annie]

While you might accept the concept of an all-powerful, unitary and unchecked executive, and might agree with Bush's views (although this would put you in a minority of about 1/3 of the country), the words "Bush" and "genius" do not belong in the same sentence, except in the negative.

Oh...and FYI, the president has the right to establish procedures whereby information is deemed classified and even change those procedures from time to time, he does not have the right to follow "No Procedures" in declassifying information to achieve a tactical political goal, thereby reducing classified information to nothing more than propaganda.

The President can classify/declassify at will:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.1546:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

"unitary executive" :rotflmao: The moment I hear this phrase, I know someone is a buttnut.

 

[jillian]

"unitary executive" :rotflmao: The moment I hear this phrase, I know someone is a buttnut.

LOL! Shocking from someone who thinks Bush is a genius. :

So...what would you call unchecked executive power?

 

[CSM]

LOL! Shocking from someone who thinks Bush is a genius. :

So...what would you call unchecked executive power?

No doubt that unchecked executive poweer would be a bad thing...I guess those that wrote the Constitution were smarter than most give them credit for. If you are implying that Bush has 'unchecked executive poweer' you are just plain wrong.

 

[jillian]

The President can classify/declassify at will:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.1546:

Yes...after following established procedures...just as I said. From your link:

d) STANDARDS FOR DECLASSIFICATION-

(1) INITIAL CLASSIFICATION PERIOD- Information may not remain classified under this Act for longer than a 10-year period unless the head of the agency that created the information certifies to the President at the end of such period that the information requires continued protection, based on a current assessment of the risks of disclosing the information, carried out in accordance with subsection (c)(1).

(2) ADDITIONAL CLASSIFICATION PERIOD- Information not declassified prior to or at the end of the 10-year period referred to in paragraph (1) may not remain classified for more than a 30-year period unless the head of the agency that created the information certifies to the President at the end of such 30-year period that continued protection of the information from unauthorized disclosure is essential to the national security of the United States or that demonstrable harm to an individual will result from release of the information.

(3) DECLASSIFICATION SCHEDULES- All classified information shall be subject to regular review pursuant to schedules each agency head shall establish and publish in the Federal Register. Each agency shall follow the schedule established by the agency head in declassifying information created by that agency.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yes...after following established procedures...just as I said. From your link:

d) STANDARDS FOR DECLASSIFICATION-

(1) INITIAL CLASSIFICATION PERIOD- Information may not remain classified under this Act for longer than a 10-year period unless the head of the agency that created the information certifies to the President at the end of such period that the information requires continued protection, based on a current assessment of the risks of disclosing the information, carried out in accordance with subsection (c)(1).

(2) ADDITIONAL CLASSIFICATION PERIOD- Information not declassified prior to or at the end of the 10-year period referred to in paragraph (1) may not remain classified for more than a 30-year period unless the head of the agency that created the information certifies to the President at the end of such 30-year period that continued protection of the information from unauthorized disclosure is essential to the national security of the United States or that demonstrable harm to an individual will result from release of the information.

(3) DECLASSIFICATION SCHEDULES- All classified information shall be subject to regular review pursuant to schedules each agency head shall establish and publish in the Federal Register. Each agency shall follow the schedule established by the agency head in declassifying information created by that agency.

That's it jillian, make the campaign about petty verbiage, excellent! Keep up the good work.

 

[Annie]

Yes...after following established procedures...just as I said. From your link:

d) STANDARDS FOR DECLASSIFICATION-

(1) INITIAL CLASSIFICATION PERIOD- Information may not remain classified under this Act for longer than a 10-year period unless the head of the agency that created the information certifies to the President at the end of such period that the information requires continued protection, based on a current assessment of the risks of disclosing the information, carried out in accordance with subsection (c)(1).

(2) ADDITIONAL CLASSIFICATION PERIOD- Information not declassified prior to or at the end of the 10-year period referred to in paragraph (1) may not remain classified for more than a 30-year period unless the head of the agency that created the information certifies to the President at the end of such 30-year period that continued protection of the information from unauthorized disclosure is essential to the national security of the United States or that demonstrable harm to an individual will result from release of the information.

(3) DECLASSIFICATION SCHEDULES- All classified information shall be subject to regular review pursuant to schedules each agency head shall establish and publish in the Federal Register. Each agency shall follow the schedule established by the agency head in declassifying information created by that agency.

None of that pertains to the president. Read a bit more...

 

[MtnBiker]

None of that pertains to the president. Read a bit more...

Not just President Bush but any President.

 

[CSM]

Yes...after following established procedures...just as I said. From your link:

d) STANDARDS FOR DECLASSIFICATION-

(1) INITIAL CLASSIFICATION PERIOD- Information may not remain classified under this Act for longer than a 10-year period unless the head of the agency that created the information certifies to the President at the end of such period that the information requires continued protection, based on a current assessment of the risks of disclosing the information, carried out in accordance with subsection (c)(1).

(2) ADDITIONAL CLASSIFICATION PERIOD- Information not declassified prior to or at the end of the 10-year period referred to in paragraph (1) may not remain classified for more than a 30-year period unless the head of the agency that created the information certifies to the President at the end of such 30-year period that continued protection of the information from unauthorized disclosure is essential to the national security of the United States or that demonstrable harm to an individual will result from release of the information.

(3) DECLASSIFICATION SCHEDULES- All classified information shall be subject to regular review pursuant to schedules each agency head shall establish and publish in the Federal Register. Each agency shall follow the schedule established by the agency head in declassifying information created by that agency.

Did you miss the part where the President can set or eliminate procedures at will? While your cherry picking of the document is laudatory, it is disingenuous.

 

[jillian]

No doubt that unchecked executive poweer would be a bad thing...I guess those that wrote the Constitution were smarter than most give them credit for. If you are implying that Bush has 'unchecked executive poweer' you are just plain wrong.

Yes, the guys who wrote the Constitution were pretty smart. But the Constitution is only as strong as the people who take an oath to protect it. I think Bush would like nothing better than unchecked power.

When a president claims that laws and procedures and limits do not apply to him and the congress and courts, because of desire for political power do nothing to limit it, that is a VERY bad thing. Whenever he signs a law now that he doesn't quite care for, Bush adds a "signing statement" which says, "well...this doesn't apply to me if I don't want it to".

No matter how much you might agree with his agenda, the President is not supposed to be above the law. Remember...someday that power will be vested in someone with whom you don't agree since all things are cyclical.

 

[Annie]

Not just President Bush but any President.

Exactly, there is a site regarding a Clinton directive and another with Carter, but I chose to stay with .gov sites.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

LOL! Shocking from someone who thinks Bush is a genius. :

So...what would you call unchecked executive power?

In the current context, "a piece of fiction".

 

[CSM]

Yes, the guys who wrote the Constitution were pretty smart. But the Constitution is only as strong as the people who take an oath to protect it. I think Bush would like nothing better than unchecked power.

When a president claims that laws and procedures and limits do not apply to him and the congress and courts, because of desire for political power do nothing to limit it, that is a VERY bad thing. Whenever he signs a law now that he doesn't quite care for, Bush adds a "signing statement" which says, "well...this doesn't apply to me if I don't want it to".

No matter how much you might agree with his agenda, the President is not supposed to be above the law. Remember...someday that power will be vested in someone with whom you don't agree since all things are cyclical.

You think Bush would like nothing better than unchecked power but I have not seen him indicate that.

Your second paragraph describes Clinton exactly which leads to your third statement....it's already happened. By the way, many many Presidents add signing statements and none of them say "well...this does not apply to me if I dont want it to" and I defy you to find ANY signing statement originating from the current pPresident that says that.

 

[jillian]

Did you miss the part where the President can set or eliminate procedures at will? While your cherry picking of the document is laudatory, it is disingenuous.

If the president eliminates or sets procedures, those new procedures or changes need to be announced. It can't just be a unilateral determination as to what s politically helpful and the procedures or lack thereof can't be changed on a case by case basis.

No "cherry picking" involved. And the only thing disingenuous is "declassifying" material for no national security purpose, but to achieve a political end.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

If the president eliminates or sets procedures, those new procedures or changes need to be announced.

WHo says?

It can't just be a unilateral determination as to what s politically helpful and the procedures or lack thereof can't be changed on a case by case basis.

Why not? I think what we have here is a "nuisance oriented legislature".

 

[jillian]

You think Bush would like nothing better than unchecked power but I have not seen him indicate that.

Your second paragraph describes Clinton exactly which leads to your third statement....it's already happened. By the way, many many Presidents add signing statements and none of them say "well...this does not apply to me if I dont want it to" and I defy you to find ANY signing statement originating from the current pPresident that says that.

I disagree with regard to Clinton. And certainly his power was never unchecked.

As for the signing statement, pretty much what Bush said in signing the anti-torture law passed by Congress.