It's a Public School-Sponsored Baptism Party!

[Contessa_Sharra]

It's a Public School-Sponsored Baptism Party!
By Brantley Hargrove in Crazy Crap, Hargrove
Tuesday, Sep. 8 2009 @ 2:30PM
​From the state that brought you the Creation Museum comes the latest in religious buffoonery, this time with an un-Constitutional twist!

While the fringe (and even respectable media) work themselves into apoplectic fits of indignation over potential socialist indoctrination of our impressionable school-age youth by the evil Obama, one Kentucky school district is taking it to the next level: Actual indoctrination of impressionable school-age kids! Only it's acceptable, see? Because it's Christian.

A Breckenridge County High School football coach took the school bus and 20 football players to an impromptu religious revival. Nearly half of them were baptized. But it gets better! The freakin' superintendent of the school district was there, praising Jesus right along with them! I hate to resort to barbarous, foreshortened blasphemy, but OMFG.

Of course, the coaches claim everything was kosher because they paid for the gas (that went into the public school bus) and attendance was optional. Right, because a high school-age football player who desperately wants to be part of a cohesive team won't feel pressured at all to participate in a field trip endorsed by the man in the ultimate position of power (the coach) and the superintendent no less.

One parent is already pretty pissed off: "Nobody should push their faith on anybody else," concerned mom Michelle Ammons told the Louisville Courier-Journal.

Because the Breckenridge County School District appears to be clearly violating the principle of the separation of church and state by taking school-sanctioned Jesus field trips, we here at Pith hope Michelle sues the bejesus out of them.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

KY school district official ok with baptizing footballers, but students forced to 'opt-in' for Obama speech

I had a hunch.

As I was writing up a little story this morning about a Kentucky high school football coach who took his players to a Baptist revival where several were baptized -- at least one without parental consent -- I said to myself, I bet they didn't play Obama's speech today.

A quick phone call to the high school got me transferred to the school district's main offices, where a friendly woman answered but did not want to give her name when I identified myself as a reporter.

"Mam'," I began, "I just have one question that's not even related to the baptism thing and the coach. I just want to know if the district's schools played President Obama's speech on education today."

She responded by putting me on hold. Upon returning, she claimed to have no first-hand knowledge but had been told by someone else in the office that ...

"The students who watched the president's speech today had to get a note signed by their parents that said they could watch it."

In other words, students at the school district where a top official -- the superintendent -- does not see anything wrong with taking football players to be baptized at a Christian revival, were forced to get a parent's signature to "opt-in" (instead of out) for the president's speech.

As Johnny Carson used to say, "Weird, wild, wacky stuff."

 

[Ringel05]

It's a Public School-Sponsored Baptism Party!
By Brantley Hargrove in Crazy Crap, Hargrove
Tuesday, Sep. 8 2009 @ 2:30PM
​From the state that brought you the Creation Museum comes the latest in religious buffoonery, this time with an un-Constitutional twist!

While the fringe (and even respectable media) work themselves into apoplectic fits of indignation over potential socialist indoctrination of our impressionable school-age youth by the evil Obama, one Kentucky school district is taking it to the next level: Actual indoctrination of impressionable school-age kids! Only it's acceptable, see? Because it's Christian.

A Breckenridge County High School football coach took the school bus and 20 football players to an impromptu religious revival. Nearly half of them were baptized. But it gets better! The freakin' superintendent of the school district was there, praising Jesus right along with them! I hate to resort to barbarous, foreshortened blasphemy, but OMFG.

Of course, the coaches claim everything was kosher because they paid for the gas (that went into the public school bus) and attendance was optional. Right, because a high school-age football player who desperately wants to be part of a cohesive team won't feel pressured at all to participate in a field trip endorsed by the man in the ultimate position of power (the coach) and the superintendent no less.

One parent is already pretty pissed off: "Nobody should push their faith on anybody else," concerned mom Michelle Ammons told the Louisville Courier-Journal.

Because the Breckenridge County School District appears to be clearly violating the principle of the separation of church and state by taking school-sanctioned Jesus field trips, we here at Pith hope Michelle sues the bejesus out of them.

If it was legally optional then there is no problem. Feeling pressured to participate in the field trip? Maybe, maybe not, how could you know unless you were a fly on the wall. Judging their motivations based on your own paradigm....priceless.

 

[Shogun]

It's a Public School-Sponsored Baptism Party!
By Brantley Hargrove in Crazy Crap, Hargrove
Tuesday, Sep. 8 2009 @ 2:30PM
​From the state that brought you the Creation Museum comes the latest in religious buffoonery, this time with an un-Constitutional twist!

While the fringe (and even respectable media) work themselves into apoplectic fits of indignation over potential socialist indoctrination of our impressionable school-age youth by the evil Obama, one Kentucky school district is taking it to the next level: Actual indoctrination of impressionable school-age kids! Only it's acceptable, see? Because it's Christian.

A Breckenridge County High School football coach took the school bus and 20 football players to an impromptu religious revival. Nearly half of them were baptized. But it gets better! The freakin' superintendent of the school district was there, praising Jesus right along with them! I hate to resort to barbarous, foreshortened blasphemy, but OMFG.

Of course, the coaches claim everything was kosher because they paid for the gas (that went into the public school bus) and attendance was optional. Right, because a high school-age football player who desperately wants to be part of a cohesive team won't feel pressured at all to participate in a field trip endorsed by the man in the ultimate position of power (the coach) and the superintendent no less.

One parent is already pretty pissed off: "Nobody should push their faith on anybody else," concerned mom Michelle Ammons told the Louisville Courier-Journal.

Because the Breckenridge County School District appears to be clearly violating the principle of the separation of church and state by taking school-sanctioned Jesus field trips, we here at Pith hope Michelle sues the bejesus out of them.

If it was legally optional then there is no problem. Feeling pressured to participate in the field trip? Maybe, maybe not, how could you know unless you were a fly on the wall. Judging their motivations based on your own paradigm....priceless.

I look forward to seeing the same logic applied when students come home with tales of praying to mecca during soccer camp.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Nothing wrong with being baptized. I was Baptized lutheran when I was 8 years old.
But, that coach is lucky my kid wasn't involved. He would have my hands wrapped around his throat while the life is slowly choked from his body.

 

[bodecea]

I would be one pissed off parent. Definitely.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

This is the real meaning of the First Amendment Clause of our United States Constitution, which reads:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”

Father of the United States Constitution, James Madison had this clause put into the Constitution, in order that the government would never again force citizens to attend a state-controlled church, such as the Anglican Church in Virginia had been. This is the true meaning of the phrase:

“Separation of the Church from interference by the State”

By design it's to keep the government from dictating a specific religion, it's not meant to keep religion out of the government. If that were the case then explain why the preambles of all 50 state constitutions references God as well as the Declaration of Independence (which contains four references to God). Also explain why almost every historical monument is engraved with scripture from Washington's monument ["Holiness to the Lord" (Exodus 28), "Search the Scriptures" (John 5:39), "The memory of the just is blessed" (Proverbs 10:7) -- and such invocations as, "May Heaven to this Union continue its Benefice."] to Moses and the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.

Then explain "In God We Trust" which is printed on all U.S. currency and mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance. Our rights come from God, not from the government!

 

[nodoginnafight]

If it was legally optional then there is no problem. Feeling pressured to participate in the field trip? Maybe, maybe not, how could you know unless you were a fly on the wall. Judging their motivations based on your own paradigm....priceless.

There IS a problem if they took a school bus - no matter WHO paid for the gas.

I personally don't have a problem with anything else in the story. Didn't the students have to tell their parents where they were going? Did the coach kidnap them?

Keep a close eye on your children - or someone else will.

 

[strollingbones]

This is the real meaning of the First Amendment Clause of our United States Constitution, which reads:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”

Father of the United States Constitution, James Madison had this clause put into the Constitution, in order that the government would never again force citizens to attend a state-controlled church, such as the Anglican Church in Virginia had been. This is the true meaning of the phrase:

“Separation of the Church from interference by the State”

By design it's to keep the government from dictating a specific religion, it's not meant to keep religion out of the government. If that were the case then explain why the preambles of all 50 state constitutions references God as well as the Declaration of Independence (which contains four references to God). Also explain why almost every historical monument is engraved with scripture from Washington's monument ["Holiness to the Lord" (Exodus 28), "Search the Scriptures" (John 5:39), "The memory of the just is blessed" (Proverbs 10:7) -- and such invocations as, "May Heaven to this Union continue its Benefice."] to Moses and the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.

Then explain "In God We Trust" which is printed on all U.S. currency and mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance. Our rights come from God, not from the government!

our currency only started doing that in the 1930's. i find taking students to any religious activity objectionable.

 

[nodoginnafight]

i find taking students to any religious activity objectionable.

I don't - as long as it is voluntary and the kid's parent(s) have said it's OK.

They shouldn't have taken a school bus though

 

[Ringel05]

If it was legally optional then there is no problem. Feeling pressured to participate in the field trip? Maybe, maybe not, how could you know unless you were a fly on the wall. Judging their motivations based on your own paradigm....priceless.

There IS a problem if they took a school bus - no matter WHO paid for the gas.

I personally don't have a problem with anything else in the story. Didn't the students have to tell their parents where they were going? Did the coach kidnap them?

Keep a close eye on your children - or someone else will.

School busses can be "rented" for non-school activities by just about anyone or group. So again, not knowing the specifics it could have been perfectly legal. To the best of my knowledge none of us here were the proverbial fly on the wall so passing judgement without having all the facts is nothing more than surrendering reason and logic to emotive deduction.

 

[strollingbones]

i wonder if jent will have a bunch of posts about the indoctrination of students or is christian indoctrination alright?

religious lessons should be given by parents, schools should have nothing to do with it...if you want your kids indoctrinated send them to private schools where it is all above board.

 

[nodoginnafight]

School busses can be "rented" for non-school activities by just about anyone or group. So again, not knowing the specifics it could have been perfectly legal. To the best of my knowledge none of us here were the proverbial fly on the wall so passing judgement without having all the facts is nothing more than surrendering reason and logic to emotive deduction.

Good point

But I would disagree with renting school buses out to groups. It can cause real problems for the school district. I don't know how many (or if any for that matter) do this - but it's a very bad idea imho. I know schools are looking for money wherever they can - but this is potentially a very big problem.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

This is the real meaning of the First Amendment Clause of our United States Constitution, which reads:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”

Father of the United States Constitution, James Madison had this clause put into the Constitution, in order that the government would never again force citizens to attend a state-controlled church, such as the Anglican Church in Virginia had been. This is the true meaning of the phrase:

“Separation of the Church from interference by the State”

By design it's to keep the government from dictating a specific religion, it's not meant to keep religion out of the government. If that were the case then explain why the preambles of all 50 state constitutions references God as well as the Declaration of Independence (which contains four references to God). Also explain why almost every historical monument is engraved with scripture from Washington's monument ["Holiness to the Lord" (Exodus 28), "Search the Scriptures" (John 5:39), "The memory of the just is blessed" (Proverbs 10:7) -- and such invocations as, "May Heaven to this Union continue its Benefice."] to Moses and the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.

Then explain "In God We Trust" which is printed on all U.S. currency and mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance. Our rights come from God, not from the government!

our currency only started doing that in the 1930's. i find taking students to any religious activity objectionable.

So? What difference does it make when it was placed on there, the fact is it's on there. This is the only thing you could argue out of the host of examples I've given? Fact is the Pledge of Allegiance didn't have God in it until 1954, but what does that prove? If anything it reinforces my argument.

 

[Ringel05]

School busses can be "rented" for non-school activities by just about anyone or group. So again, not knowing the specifics it could have been perfectly legal. To the best of my knowledge none of us here were the proverbial fly on the wall so passing judgement without having all the facts is nothing more than surrendering reason and logic to emotive deduction.

Good point

But I would disagree with renting school buses out to groups. It can cause real problems for the school district. I don't know how many (or if any for that matter) do this - but it's a very bad idea imho. I know schools are looking for money wherever they can - but this is potentially a very big problem.

I'm a history buff, reenacting and living history. With many large events school busses are use to transport troops and spectators to and from camping/barracks and "battle" areas. At the WWII Battle of the Bulge and Nordwind they transport not only Bris and GIs but Wermacht and Waffen SS troops. Would you consider this a "very big problem"?

 

[nodoginnafight]

School busses can be "rented" for non-school activities by just about anyone or group. So again, not knowing the specifics it could have been perfectly legal. To the best of my knowledge none of us here were the proverbial fly on the wall so passing judgement without having all the facts is nothing more than surrendering reason and logic to emotive deduction.

Good point

But I would disagree with renting school buses out to groups. It can cause real problems for the school district. I don't know how many (or if any for that matter) do this - but it's a very bad idea imho. I know schools are looking for money wherever they can - but this is potentially a very big problem.

I'm a history buff, reenacting and living history. With many large events school busses are use to transport troops and spectators to and from camping/barracks and "battle" areas. At the WWII Battle of the Bulge and Nordwind they transport not only Bris and GIs but Wermacht and Waffen SS troops. Would you consider this a "very big problem"?

yes, because if they rent to you guys - what is their justification for NOT renting to a bunch of guys who want to go to a NAMBLA rally? And just how good does it look to have X County Schools plastered on the side of a bus that is pulling into a NAMBLA rally?

 

[AllieBaba]

Separation of church and state is not, as urban legend has it, a mandate to prevent schools from referring to God, or prevent children from participating in religious festivities.

It's a mandate which permits ppl to participate in religious activities at will, with no repercussions.

Nice try.

The schools in Pendleton get out for 3 days during Round-Up, and the kids go to the rodeo grounds on Tuesday for "indoctrination" into the rodeo culture by participating in the rodeo, watching slack, sitting in the big wagon pulled by oxen, meeting the rodeo clowns, etc.

And horror of horrors, the teachers participate as well!

The kids are even encouraged to wear their western attire.

When I was a girl the kids who wanted to got to leave school every Tuesday to attend vacation bible school at the Evangelical church. OMG! They even rode...gasp...a SCHOOL BUS!

Do a little research on what separation of church and state means. It is constructed to PROTECT those of us who want to publicly adhere to our religion, with no fear of persecution. It doesn't matter if they're in school or not.

If the school required them to be baptized, that's one thing. They didn't. So think of it as a cultural event. The same as visiting a mosque, a Jewish Temple, a Buddhist Temple, or going to listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Heaven forbid a child decide they want to sing in a choir after hearing the choir sing...

 

[nodoginnafight]

The schools in Pendleton get out for 3 days during Round-Up, and the kids (without parental consent) go to the rodeo grounds on Tuesday for "indoctrination" into the rodeo culture by participating in the rodeo, watching slack, sitting in the big wagon pulled by oxen, meeting the rodeo clowns, etc.

I find it hard to believe that students are allowed to "participate" in a rodeo without parental consent.

 

[AllieBaba]

Also keep in mind that children were taught to read using Christian primers and reciting bibilcal passages, when we were closer to what this country was supposed to be and what our forefathers determined it should be.

Preventing children from participating in religious activities simply because they are in school is in direct violation of the "separation of church and state" suggestion, because it is quite clearly an example of the gov't preventing them from choosing and following the religion of their choice, and using a gov't tool, the school system, to accomplish it.

 

[AllieBaba]

And perhaps all the frothing-at-the mouth fanatics who think it's okay to deny children the right to participate in religious activities missed this:

"Two other parents, however, said in interviews that their sons told them that Mooney had said the voluntary outing to Franklin Crossroads Baptist Church in Hardin County would include a revival.
Mooney, contacted by phone, said school district officials instructed him not to comment.

But Superintendent Janet Meeks, who is a member of the church and witnessed the baptisms, said she thinks the trip was proper because attendance was not required, and another coach paid for the gas."

The trip was voluntary, not mandatory. Which means it violated nothing. Particularly any imaginary "separation of church and state" bs which the fanatics seem to think means the government can prevent children from participating in religious events, if they so desire.

It also looks like the parents knew about it.

Poof. There goes the whine fest.