"It is not your fault, and you are completely responsible for your actions."

[Sky Dancer]

Is it true? Can you hold these two seemingly contradictory thoughts in your mind? What are the implications of being responsible (completely capable of responding) for your actions yet not locked in a prison of self-blame?

Your thoughts.....

Another way of putting this is, "You are fine, and there is no blame." How would your life be different if you had absolute confidence right now that everything was going to be ok?

 

[catzmeow]

What if it is your fault?

 

[manu1959]

everything is going to be ok.....

 

[Sky Dancer]

Think of how much energy is wasted in in the feeling of self-blame or blaming others for 'what is'?

Taking responsibility for one's actions is completely different than playing the blame game.

 

[catzmeow]

Think of how much energy is wasted in in the feeling of self-blame or blaming others for 'what is'?

Taking responsibility for one's actions is completely different than playing the blame game.

Sometimes, acknowledging personal culpability is a necessary step in healing and/or changing the negative behavior.

For instance, my ex-husband just went through a bankruptcy. He spends a lot of time being angry at other people, when in reality, he is the one who chose to overspend.

What are the odds that he will stop having financial problems if he never acknowledges the behaviors that led to the problems in the first place?

 

[catzmeow]

In my own case, I have a history of dating negative men, and have been physically abused by several of them. It wasn't until I acknowledged my own role in allowing dangerous men into my life that I was able to change that habit and get healthier.

It wasn't my fault that they were violent, but it was COMPLETELY my fault that they were violent WITH ME, because I allowed them access.

 

[catzmeow]

I see what you are saying as a sort of restatement of the Prayer of St. Augustine, but I do think that as individuals, we have to acknowledge our own role in negative situations if we ever hope to change them.

 

[Sky Dancer]

catz--

There is a difference between self-blame and taking responsibility for your actions. Somewhere people got the idea that the unhelpful neurological wiring that says 'to make sure we act responsibly, we have to feel the knife of blame after enacting unskillful behaviors" was a good idea

At a certain level of consciousness, pointing an accustatory finger at ourselves or others seems necessary for recognizing the consequences of one's behavior. I'm pointing to a more refined means of self-regulation that transcends blame.

This means we can feel the direct pain of being unskillful which comes from a healthy conscience, yet be free from the now transcended habit of blaming.

 

[catzmeow]

At a certain level of consciousness, pointing an accustatory finger at ourselves or others seems necessary for recognizing the consequences of one's behavior. I'm pointing to a more refined means of self-regulation that transcends blame.

Isn't self blame acknowledging culpability? I don't see a problem with it. Sometimes people really ARE to blame for their problems. Shame can play a role in pushing people to change, or forcing them to behave ethically.

I think you are mincing words in a non-meaningful way. I have to say that St. Augustine said it more elegantly.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Whatever, if it doesn't work for you, fine. I'm sad, but not surprised that you're unwilling to give up blame. Blaming shuts down responsiveness (the ability to respond). It also interferes in forgiveness--and being able to move on.

It's heavy.

"It's not your fault" frees us to go deeper into the actual causes of a situation to see the threads that connect us to our history, to other people, and eventually, to all of life.

 

[catzmeow]

Whatever, if it doesn't work for you, fine. I'm sad, but not surprised that you're unwilling to give up blame. Blaming shuts down responsiveness (the ability to respond). It also interferes in forgiveness--and being able to move on.

It's heavy.

As stated, I don't see a huge difference between blame and acknowledging responsibility. What do these terms mean to you that differentiates between them?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Recently, I found myself speaking unskillfully, and I experienced regreat and pain for speaking hurtfully. I followed the threads of the moment and it showed me that I was unconsciously repeating a pattern I had learned from a parent. It was wonderful to follow the pain to it's source and allow it to be liberated.

This kind of self-learning is unlikely if I had remained in the prison of self-blame.

 

[catzmeow]

This kind of self-learning is unlikely if I had remained in the prison of self-blame.

The self blame is what lead you onto that journey of discovery. It came from feeling that you had acted badly. What you learned was that you were repeating a behavior you'd learned at an early age. Does that discovery make you less responsible for the words that YOU uttered?

I think that I am big on personal responsibility because it was only when I acknowledge my own role in being a victim of violence that I stopped tolerating violent men. And, because I see my ex-husband trapped in a downward spiral of his own making which he refuses to acknowledge. I do not think that his circumstances will change as long as he is focused on what other people have done to him, and ignores what he has done to himself.

It's sad to watch from the outside, because it affects my children.


If you had failed to acknowledge that your words were bad, would you have learned what you did?

 

[catzmeow]

See, there is a further step. You liberated the pain of that moment, but will you continue the bad behavior? In your case, some degree of guilt and blame was ultimately helpful to you because it helped you to understand better. Sure, if you'd stayed stuck on guilt and blame, that would be bad, but you didn't.

 

[Truthmatters]

Or like you they took the time to anlyze there own habit of accepting the behavior that lead to abuse.

Your intent was not to be beaten and abused , you just did not know how to avoid it.

Men who want to beat and abuse can always spot the girls who dont know the tell tale signs that lead to it.

You wanted love not abuse. There are guys who seek the women who are products of abusive realtionships because they fall into the pattern.

I have known women who were saved from abusive realtionships by guys who a couple of years later were their new abuser.

There are good men out there. They are not the ones who try and fill your fanacies, they just want a women to stand beside them. Beware of the guy who butters you up.

 

[Sky Dancer]

See, there is a further step. You liberated the pain of that moment, but will you continue the bad behavior? In your case, some degree of guilt and blame was ultimately helpful to you because it helped you to understand better. Sure, if you'd stayed stuck on guilt and blame, that would be bad, but you didn't.

No. I don't see it that way. Of course, I'm not going to continue the behavior consciously. And when I find myself reacting out of some habit from the past, I'm not going to wallow in self-blame.

Guilt and self-blame are completely unnecessary. Some amount of pain, and regret is helpful. There is a difference.

Guilt and blame are by their very nature 'sticky'. They have a heaviness to them. Regret is neither heavy nor sticky.

Guilt and blame beat you up. Regret is more open and spacious, and allows movement--like kindness, understanding and forgiveness.

 

[catzmeow]

See, there is a further step. You liberated the pain of that moment, but will you continue the bad behavior? In your case, some degree of guilt and blame was ultimately helpful to you because it helped you to understand better. Sure, if you'd stayed stuck on guilt and blame, that would be bad, but you didn't.

No. I don't see it that way. Of course, I'm not going to continue the behavior consciously. And when I find myself reacting out of some habit from the past, I'm not going to wallow in self-blame.

Why? You inflicted the same harm on someone else that was inflicted on you. You don't feel guilt, shame or blame about YOUR ACTIONS? There is no real difference between guilt, shame, self-blame, or regret. You are creating artificial distinctions here.

 

[catzmeow]

Or like you they took the time to anlyze there own habit of accepting the behavior that lead to abuse.

Your intent was not to be beaten and abused , you just did not know how to avoid it.

Men who want to beat and abuse can always spot the girls who dont know the tell tale signs that lead to it.

You wanted love not abuse. There are guys who seek the women who are products of abusive realtionships because they fall into the pattern.

I have known women who were saved from abusive realtionships by guys who a couple of years later were their new abuser.

There are good men out there. They are not the ones who try and fill your fanacies, they just want a women to stand beside them. Beware of the guy who butters you up.

I agree with all of the above. But I had to accept my own guilt in allowing them into my life (and especially, into the lives of my children). And, I had to realize that I played a role, just like in the case of your friends.

I had to SAVE MYSELF from abuse. And, when I did so, then I started to learn to spot the warning signs of men who weren't healthy. And definitely, charm is a major one.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You're placing blame on me right now. It's not a skillful technique to help oneself or others.

There is a difference between taking responsibility for one's actions and pointing the finger of blame at yourself or others.

One acknowledges the truth, the other adds judgement and punishment. Guilt and blame are destructive habits.

 

[Truthmatters]

I think those are good distictions SD.

Recognising your own culpability in a result is different from blaming yourself for the outcome.