Israel's Lies

[Hollie]

RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ toastman,

I don't believe that our friend P F Tinmore can present a defendable argument.

Can someone explain to me Tinmores logic.. he does nothing but deflect, then accuses others of deflecting .

(COMMENT)

The HoAP act as if some power is going to turn the clock block and replay history. That simply is NOT going to happen.


Most Respectfully,
R

Huh?

Indeed.

RoccoR posted:
“I don't believe that our friend P F Tinmore can present a defendable argument.”


Responded to by P F Tinmore with:
(cut and paste meaningless YouTube video)

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: If you don't understand the meaning of sovereignty, it will be next to impossible for you to understand which of the Areas meets the criteria for sovereignty.

To surrender any territory, you must first be the sovereign over that territory in question.

Who says they are not?

Link?

You are ducking. A,B, and C are irrelevant to my post.

(COMMENT)

I gave you the definition of "Sovereignty" in Posting #454 yesterday. But I think that the ThoughtCompany outlines it better than I've seen anywhere else.

​

7. Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.​

Somewhat. The West Bank and Gaza Strip do not yet have full sovereignty and control over their own territory.​

A sovereign Palestinian Arab state has never existed.Rather, the status of the territory is, at best, disputed. This, of course, is the reason for the negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians—negotiations which Indyk has long advocated and which Palestinians have long rejected. By claiming that the land is “Palestinian territory,” Indyk is prejudging an outcome, effectively saying that negotiations aren’t necessary as the land already belongs to Palestinian Arabs.​

Source: By: Foreign Affairs Magazine, ‘Palestinian Land,’ and the Press, Sean Durns May 29, 2020 ​

When Secretary of State Mike Pompeo recently announced an official change to U.S. policy regarding Israel’s settlements in the West Bank, saying the U.S. no longer finds them to be “inconsistent with international law,” it was unclear if he — or whoever else was behind the policy — thought through its full implications. ​

SOURCE: Brookings Institute, Omar H. Rahman Monday, November 25, 2019 ​

​

(COMMENT)​

​

Nothing I'm going to say will satify you. And I suspect, it is that approach the Ramalla Government (such that it is) will take. If it were so easy for you to prove, you would have thrown it in my face. All you can do is ask for negative answer (proof does not exsist). I simply do not know how to do that. All I can say, is that the Arab Palestinian government in Ramalla does not have final authority on all matters in Area "B" and certainly is not the final authority in Area "C" or Jerusalem. Subtract all that from the disputed territory and what you have left, might be the Sovereign State of Palestine.​

​

​

Most Respectfully,​

R​

By claiming that the land is “Palestinian territory,” Indyk is prejudging an outcome, effectively saying that negotiations aren’t necessary as the land already belongs to Palestinian Arabs.​

And if is not theirs, why do they have the authority to negotiate it?

Even if propaganda makes no sense, there are dupes who will believe it.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: Anyone who expresses any opinion on the question is pre-judging the two adversaries.

I noticed that the International Criminal Court (ICC) only released and made public a Redacted version (Eighth Report) pertaining to Information and Outreach Activities Concerning Victims and Affected Communities in the Situation”, 12 August 2020, ICC-01/18-141-Conf, which spotlights allegations against the Israelis on criminal acts committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, since 13 June 2014. That is worrisome to me, in that it indicates who are the victims and who are the criminals on trial. It does not give me any confidence at all that the Court is going to take into account the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Activities that incited the necessity for Operation Protective Edge (8 July – 26 August 2014). And it stated that it would focus on "crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem." The court did not give me the impression that it would even consider that the Israeli state and people were victims of Hostile Arab Palestinians.​

​

I am also curious about the period of the spotlight. 14 June 2014 to (open-ended). Just how does that work?​

​

IN MY MIND, it is the ICC that is making a pre-judgment on certain facts.​

By claiming that the land is “Palestinian territory,” Indyk is prejudging an outcome, effectively saying that negotiations aren’t necessary as the land already belongs to Palestinian Arabs.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​

And if is not theirs, why do they have the authority to negotiate it?

Even if propaganda makes no sense, there are dupes who will believe it.

(COMMENT)

I don't think that the opinion expressed by Martin Indyk is NOT pre-judging any outcome at all. It is, however, a political forecast on the HoAP response to a new negotiation effort. It is not like the HoAP has a history of cooperation and good faith in these matters. The HoAP are not now, nor have they been, actively involved in the maintenance of international peace and security and for the development of Friendly Relations and Co-operation between the two parties in the conflict, since the Oslo Accords.

Incidental to the ICC pro-Palestinian (declaring them as the victims) impression it publically projects, it sounds like it has already come down on the side of the Arab Palestinians as the being subjected to "Apartheid" measures, and not considering the ground truth of the actual demarcation. I get a distinct impression the Court is acting as if Israel (proper and sovereign) was really occupied Palestinian territory, and that the Security Barriers represents an internal partition separating two races within one state.

I'm an old man, but I fear it is the intention of the court to destabilize the situation in the territory consisting of Israel, Gaza Strip, the West Bank, including Jerusalem.

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: Anyone who expresses any opinion on the question is pre-judging the two adversaries.

I noticed that the International Criminal Court (ICC) only released and made public a Redacted version (Eighth Report) pertaining to Information and Outreach Activities Concerning Victims and Affected Communities in the Situation”, 12 August 2020, ICC-01/18-141-Conf, which spotlights allegations against the Israelis on criminal acts committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, since 13 June 2014. That is worrisome to me, in that it indicates who are the victims and who are the criminals on trial. It does not give me any confidence at all that the Court is going to take into account the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Activities that incited the necessity for Operation Protective Edge (8 July – 26 August 2014). And it stated that it would focus on "crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem." The court did not give me the impression that it would even consider that the Israeli state and people were victims of Hostile Arab Palestinians.​

​

I am also curious about the period of the spotlight. 14 June 2014 to (open-ended). Just how does that work?​

​

IN MY MIND, it is the ICC that is making a pre-judgment on certain facts.​

By claiming that the land is “Palestinian territory,” Indyk is prejudging an outcome, effectively saying that negotiations aren’t necessary as the land already belongs to Palestinian Arabs.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​

And if is not theirs, why do they have the authority to negotiate it?

Even if propaganda makes no sense, there are dupes who will believe it.

(COMMENT)

I don't think that the opinion expressed by Martin Indyk is NOT pre-judging any outcome at all. It is, however, a political forecast on the HoAP response to a new negotiation effort. It is not like the HoAP has a history of cooperation and good faith in these matters. The HoAP are not now, nor have they been, actively involved in the maintenance of international peace and security and for the development of Friendly Relations and Co-operation between the two parties in the conflict, since the Oslo Accords.

Incidental to the ICC pro-Palestinian (declaring them as the victims) impression it publically projects, it sounds like it has already come down on the side of the Arab Palestinians as the being subjected to "Apartheid" measures, and not considering the ground truth of the actual demarcation. I get a distinct impression the Court is acting as if Israel (proper and sovereign) was really occupied Palestinian territory, and that the Security Barriers represents an internal partition separating two races within one state.

I'm an old man, but I fear it is the intention of the court to destabilize the situation in the territory consisting of Israel, Gaza Strip, the West Bank, including Jerusalem.

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, so now can you address my post?

 

[Hollie]

RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: Anyone who expresses any opinion on the question is pre-judging the two adversaries.

I noticed that the International Criminal Court (ICC) only released and made public a Redacted version (Eighth Report) pertaining to Information and Outreach Activities Concerning Victims and Affected Communities in the Situation”, 12 August 2020, ICC-01/18-141-Conf, which spotlights allegations against the Israelis on criminal acts committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, since 13 June 2014. That is worrisome to me, in that it indicates who are the victims and who are the criminals on trial. It does not give me any confidence at all that the Court is going to take into account the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Activities that incited the necessity for Operation Protective Edge (8 July – 26 August 2014). And it stated that it would focus on "crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem." The court did not give me the impression that it would even consider that the Israeli state and people were victims of Hostile Arab Palestinians.​

​

I am also curious about the period of the spotlight. 14 June 2014 to (open-ended). Just how does that work?​

​

IN MY MIND, it is the ICC that is making a pre-judgment on certain facts.​

By claiming that the land is “Palestinian territory,” Indyk is prejudging an outcome, effectively saying that negotiations aren’t necessary as the land already belongs to Palestinian Arabs.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​

And if is not theirs, why do they have the authority to negotiate it?

Even if propaganda makes no sense, there are dupes who will believe it.

(COMMENT)

I don't think that the opinion expressed by Martin Indyk is NOT pre-judging any outcome at all. It is, however, a political forecast on the HoAP response to a new negotiation effort. It is not like the HoAP has a history of cooperation and good faith in these matters. The HoAP are not now, nor have they been, actively involved in the maintenance of international peace and security and for the development of Friendly Relations and Co-operation between the two parties in the conflict, since the Oslo Accords.

Incidental to the ICC pro-Palestinian (declaring them as the victims) impression it publically projects, it sounds like it has already come down on the side of the Arab Palestinians as the being subjected to "Apartheid" measures, and not considering the ground truth of the actual demarcation. I get a distinct impression the Court is acting as if Israel (proper and sovereign) was really occupied Palestinian territory, and that the Security Barriers represents an internal partition separating two races within one state.

I'm an old man, but I fear it is the intention of the court to destabilize the situation in the territory consisting of Israel, Gaza Strip, the West Bank, including Jerusalem.

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, so now can you address my post?

Indeed. How many more times do you need that to be addressed?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: Anyone who expresses any opinion on the question is pre-judging the two adversaries.

I noticed that the International Criminal Court (ICC) only released and made public a Redacted version (Eighth Report) pertaining to Information and Outreach Activities Concerning Victims and Affected Communities in the Situation”, 12 August 2020, ICC-01/18-141-Conf, which spotlights allegations against the Israelis on criminal acts committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, since 13 June 2014. That is worrisome to me, in that it indicates who are the victims and who are the criminals on trial. It does not give me any confidence at all that the Court is going to take into account the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Activities that incited the necessity for Operation Protective Edge (8 July – 26 August 2014). And it stated that it would focus on "crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem." The court did not give me the impression that it would even consider that the Israeli state and people were victims of Hostile Arab Palestinians.​

​

I am also curious about the period of the spotlight. 14 June 2014 to (open-ended). Just how does that work?​

​

IN MY MIND, it is the ICC that is making a pre-judgment on certain facts.​

By claiming that the land is “Palestinian territory,” Indyk is prejudging an outcome, effectively saying that negotiations aren’t necessary as the land already belongs to Palestinian Arabs.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​

And if is not theirs, why do they have the authority to negotiate it?

Even if propaganda makes no sense, there are dupes who will believe it.

(COMMENT)

I don't think that the opinion expressed by Martin Indyk is NOT pre-judging any outcome at all. It is, however, a political forecast on the HoAP response to a new negotiation effort. It is not like the HoAP has a history of cooperation and good faith in these matters. The HoAP are not now, nor have they been, actively involved in the maintenance of international peace and security and for the development of Friendly Relations and Co-operation between the two parties in the conflict, since the Oslo Accords.

Incidental to the ICC pro-Palestinian (declaring them as the victims) impression it publically projects, it sounds like it has already come down on the side of the Arab Palestinians as the being subjected to "Apartheid" measures, and not considering the ground truth of the actual demarcation. I get a distinct impression the Court is acting as if Israel (proper and sovereign) was really occupied Palestinian territory, and that the Security Barriers represents an internal partition separating two races within one state.

I'm an old man, but I fear it is the intention of the court to destabilize the situation in the territory consisting of Israel, Gaza Strip, the West Bank, including Jerusalem.

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, so now can you address my post?

Indeed. How many more times do you need that to be addressed?

Just once.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israel's Lies
⁜→ P F Tinmore,

BLUF: Anyone who expresses any opinion on the question is pre-judging the two adversaries.

I noticed that the International Criminal Court (ICC) only released and made public a Redacted version (Eighth Report) pertaining to Information and Outreach Activities Concerning Victims and Affected Communities in the Situation”, 12 August 2020, ICC-01/18-141-Conf, which spotlights allegations against the Israelis on criminal acts committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, since 13 June 2014. That is worrisome to me, in that it indicates who are the victims and who are the criminals on trial. It does not give me any confidence at all that the Court is going to take into account the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Activities that incited the necessity for Operation Protective Edge (8 July – 26 August 2014). And it stated that it would focus on "crimes committed in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem." The court did not give me the impression that it would even consider that the Israeli state and people were victims of Hostile Arab Palestinians.​

​

I am also curious about the period of the spotlight. 14 June 2014 to (open-ended). Just how does that work?​

​

IN MY MIND, it is the ICC that is making a pre-judgment on certain facts.​

By claiming that the land is “Palestinian territory,” Indyk is prejudging an outcome, effectively saying that negotiations aren’t necessary as the land already belongs to Palestinian Arabs.​

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪ ​

And if is not theirs, why do they have the authority to negotiate it?

Even if propaganda makes no sense, there are dupes who will believe it.

(COMMENT)

I don't think that the opinion expressed by Martin Indyk is NOT pre-judging any outcome at all. It is, however, a political forecast on the HoAP response to a new negotiation effort. It is not like the HoAP has a history of cooperation and good faith in these matters. The HoAP are not now, nor have they been, actively involved in the maintenance of international peace and security and for the development of Friendly Relations and Co-operation between the two parties in the conflict, since the Oslo Accords.

Incidental to the ICC pro-Palestinian (declaring them as the victims) impression it publically projects, it sounds like it has already come down on the side of the Arab Palestinians as the being subjected to "Apartheid" measures, and not considering the ground truth of the actual demarcation. I get a distinct impression the Court is acting as if Israel (proper and sovereign) was really occupied Palestinian territory, and that the Security Barriers represents an internal partition separating two races within one state.

I'm an old man, but I fear it is the intention of the court to destabilize the situation in the territory consisting of Israel, Gaza Strip, the West Bank, including Jerusalem.

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, so now can you address my post?

Indeed. How many more times do you need that to be addressed?

Just once.

That question has been ducked.

So how about the one where the Hamas coup took Gaza away from the PA?