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Israel's 'crisis of legitimacy'

P F Tinmore

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In its editorial, Haaretz underlined the central moral irony of the case: the controversy over Blau's reporting on so-called "sensitive" security matters hides the real issue: Israel's military circumvented the High Court by authorizing targeted assassinations outside of the rules of engagement.

"In reality, however, the crime in question is far more severe - the one committed by the security apparatus (GOC Central Command in particular) in ignoring a High Court order and approving the targeted assassination of wanted men who could otherwise have been detained, in strikes that claimed the lives of innocent civilians," Haaretz's editorial board wrote.

Regardless, many unanswered questions remain. What information was contained in the other documents that Blau was forced to hand over? What other, even more unsettling secrets might still be submerged in the recesses of Israeli bureaucracy?

Beyond this, what motivated the Shin Bet to commit the blunder of seeking a court-ordered gag order that embarrassingly collapsed under inevitable media pressure?

Avner Cohen told me he thought one aspect of the motivation was related to "Israeli sensitivity about the Goldstone report," referring to the UN fact-finding mission that accused Israel of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during its offensive on Gaza last year.

Cohen said the underlying context in the Kamm-Blau case is concern within the Israeli government about a "crisis of legitimacy" sparked by the allegations in the Goldstone report.

"There is a nervousness in Israel," he said. "There is a sense that what has been tolerated by the world for decades, the occupation, the checkpoints and so on, that there is less and less tolerance for Israel as occupier."

Maan News Agency: Israel's 'crisis of legitimacy' - Jared Malsin
 

al Haq

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For those unfamiliar with this story --

Anat Kamm is a 23-year-old former Israeli soldier and journalist. She has been accused of copying thousands of "secret" and "top secret" documents during her service as a clerk at the IDF's Central Command between 2005 and 2007, and then passing them to another Israeli journalist named Uri Blau.

These documents contained extensive details about the IDF's conduct in the West Bank, which Kamm has described as "war crimes."

In 2008, Blau wrote an article for the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz called "License to Kill," based on the documents, which exposed the IDF's breaches of international law and its own rules of procedures in planning and carrying out assassinations of Palestinians, and the army's coverup of its behavior.

The Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem has confirmed the IDF conduct described in the article, saying that their research showed that "in many cases soldiers have been conducting themselves in the territories as if they were on a hit and run mission, as opposed to arrest operations."

Subsequent articles by Blau, also drawing information from these documents, detailed other IDF corruption and complicity in Israel's illegal West Bank settlement building, such as construction without permits and building on private Palestinian land.

Since the sh!t hit the fan, the State of Israel has charged Kamm with espionage and passing on classified information with the intention to harm state security, and kept her under house arrest since last year. If convicted, she potentially faces life imprisonment.

Blau was summoned before Shin Bet (Israel's internal security service - the domestic version of Mossad) in September 2009 and ordered to hand over the documents. They also confiscated his computer, and from there, tracked down Kamm shortly afterwards.

Blau was out of the country when he learned of Kamm's arrest and that his own home had been ransacked by Shin Bet. He is currently believed to be in London, in hiding to avoid arrest in Israel. Shin Bet alleges that he holds hundreds more documents related to the IDF's assault on Gaza in 2008-2009.

During this same period, international criticism was mounting over Israel's blockade and invasion of Gaza. Shin Bet has threatened to "remove the gloves" to track Blau down.

Interestingly enough, all of Blau's articles were cleared for publication by the military censor, as required by Israeli law. Israeli journalists have organized press petitions calling for the charges against Blau to be dropped, fearing that more journalists will face charges since it's rather common in Israel for journalists to come into possession of secret documents.
 

Douger

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IsNtReal.
 

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Marc39

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For those unfamiliar with this story --

Anat Kamm is a 23-year-old former Israeli soldier and journalist. She has been accused of copying thousands of "secret" and "top secret" documents during her service as a clerk at the IDF's Central Command between 2005 and 2007, and then passing them to another Israeli journalist named Uri Blau.

These documents contained extensive details about the IDF's conduct in the West Bank, which Kamm has described as "war crimes."

In 2008, Blau wrote an article for the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz called "License to Kill," based on the documents, which exposed the IDF's breaches of international law and its own rules of procedures in planning and carrying out assassinations of Palestinians, and the army's coverup of its behavior.

The Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem has confirmed the IDF conduct described in the article, saying that their research showed that "in many cases soldiers have been conducting themselves in the territories as if they were on a hit and run mission, as opposed to arrest operations."

Subsequent articles by Blau, also drawing information from these documents, detailed other IDF corruption and complicity in Israel's illegal West Bank settlement building, such as construction without permits and building on private Palestinian land.

Since the sh!t hit the fan, the State of Israel has charged Kamm with espionage and passing on classified information with the intention to harm state security, and kept her under house arrest since last year. If convicted, she potentially faces life imprisonment.

Blau was summoned before Shin Bet (Israel's internal security service - the domestic version of Mossad) in September 2009 and ordered to hand over the documents. They also confiscated his computer, and from there, tracked down Kamm shortly afterwards.

Blau was out of the country when he learned of Kamm's arrest and that his own home had been ransacked by Shin Bet. He is currently believed to be in London, in hiding to avoid arrest in Israel. Shin Bet alleges that he holds hundreds more documents related to the IDF's assault on Gaza in 2008-2009.

During this same period, international criticism was mounting over Israel's blockade and invasion of Gaza. Shin Bet has threatened to "remove the gloves" to track Blau down.

Interestingly enough, all of Blau's articles were cleared for publication by the military censor, as required by Israeli law. Israeli journalists have organized press petitions calling for the charges against Blau to be dropped, fearing that more journalists will face charges since it's rather common in Israel for journalists to come into possession of secret documents.

More bogus, unsubstantiated anti-Israel propaganda?

Nice attempt, Muhammadan, in continuing the Islamic jihad against the Jewish infidel.
Perhaps, if Muslims fixated less on Jews and more on their own pathetic lives, the Muslim world would not be known only for terrorism, poverty and decay.

Sahih Bukhari...
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'

You're as mentally ill as your pedophile prophet.
 
OP
P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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For those unfamiliar with this story --

Anat Kamm is a 23-year-old former Israeli soldier and journalist. She has been accused of copying thousands of "secret" and "top secret" documents during her service as a clerk at the IDF's Central Command between 2005 and 2007, and then passing them to another Israeli journalist named Uri Blau.

These documents contained extensive details about the IDF's conduct in the West Bank, which Kamm has described as "war crimes."

In 2008, Blau wrote an article for the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz called "License to Kill," based on the documents, which exposed the IDF's breaches of international law and its own rules of procedures in planning and carrying out assassinations of Palestinians, and the army's coverup of its behavior.

The Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem has confirmed the IDF conduct described in the article, saying that their research showed that "in many cases soldiers have been conducting themselves in the territories as if they were on a hit and run mission, as opposed to arrest operations."

Subsequent articles by Blau, also drawing information from these documents, detailed other IDF corruption and complicity in Israel's illegal West Bank settlement building, such as construction without permits and building on private Palestinian land.

Since the sh!t hit the fan, the State of Israel has charged Kamm with espionage and passing on classified information with the intention to harm state security, and kept her under house arrest since last year. If convicted, she potentially faces life imprisonment.

Blau was summoned before Shin Bet (Israel's internal security service - the domestic version of Mossad) in September 2009 and ordered to hand over the documents. They also confiscated his computer, and from there, tracked down Kamm shortly afterwards.

Blau was out of the country when he learned of Kamm's arrest and that his own home had been ransacked by Shin Bet. He is currently believed to be in London, in hiding to avoid arrest in Israel. Shin Bet alleges that he holds hundreds more documents related to the IDF's assault on Gaza in 2008-2009.

During this same period, international criticism was mounting over Israel's blockade and invasion of Gaza. Shin Bet has threatened to "remove the gloves" to track Blau down.

Interestingly enough, all of Blau's articles were cleared for publication by the military censor, as required by Israeli law. Israeli journalists have organized press petitions calling for the charges against Blau to be dropped, fearing that more journalists will face charges since it's rather common in Israel for journalists to come into possession of secret documents.

More bogus, unsubstantiated anti-Israel propaganda?

Nice attempt, Muhammadan, in continuing the Islamic jihad against the Jewish infidel.
Perhaps, if Muslims fixated less on Jews and more on their own pathetic lives, the Muslim world would not be known only for terrorism, poverty and decay.

Sahih Bukhari...
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'

You're as mentally ill as your pedophile prophet.

This is not a religious conflict.
 

Marc39

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You can waste your entire life posting unsubstantiated links about Jews. Muslims' obsession with the Jews, rather than obsessing on transitioning out of the Middle Ages and getting ahead, is why two-thirds of the world's poverty is concentrated in the Muslim world.
It's why there is no democracy in the Islamic world. Why there is only tyranny, oppression and decay.

Keep posting your idiotic links and Jews will continue to get ahead in the world and demonstrate what a total loser Muhammad was and what freaks and failures Muslims are.
 
OP
P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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You can waste your entire life posting unsubstantiated links about Jews. Muslims' obsession with the Jews, rather than obsessing on transitioning out of the Middle Ages and getting ahead, is why two-thirds of the world's poverty is concentrated in the Muslim world.
It's why there is no democracy in the Islamic world. Why there is only tyranny, oppression and decay.

Keep posting your idiotic links and Jews will continue to get ahead in the world and demonstrate what a total loser Muhammad was and what freaks and failures Muslims are.

Actually, Palestine had the model democracy in the ME. The elections were the most fair according to international observers. The government included Hamas, Fatah, and a myriad of smaller parties and independents. There were Muslims and Christians, There were men and women. There were peace activists. Most had advanced degrees from international institutions.

It was too good to be allowed to exist so it was destroyed by The US an Israel.

Remember, Palestine was self sufficient and rapidly improving once it was out from under Ottoman rule.

Again it had to be destroyed.
 

al Haq

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You can waste your entire life posting unsubstantiated links about Jews. Muslims' obsession with the Jews, rather than obsessing on transitioning out of the Middle Ages and getting ahead, is why two-thirds of the world's poverty is concentrated in the Muslim world.
It's why there is no democracy in the Islamic world. Why there is only tyranny, oppression and decay.

Keep posting your idiotic links and Jews will continue to get ahead in the world and demonstrate what a total loser Muhammad was and what freaks and failures Muslims are.

Only this story isn't "unsubstantiated;" it's all over the Israeli media (now that the gag order has been lifted.) It's the "hot topic" in Israel and the subject of intense public and official attention.

So the cat is already out of the bag. Anyone can easily confirm that the details of the case are just as I've posted by simply reading - Ha'aretz, the Jerusalem Post, even Wikipedia and more have all published articles about this case.

Your silly denials of the story, even in the face of coverage by venerable Israeli publications (both on the right and the left) just make you look even more foolish than usual.
 

GHook93

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blah blah blah blah blah!

Another uninteresting thread by P F Titmore!

Israel only has a crisis of legitimacy to antisemites like yourself. Her economy is stronger than ever, despite the rhetoric America's support is just as strong as it was 10 yrs back, Hamas is running scared after cast lead, tourism is hitting new highs, their tech sector is becoming an world leader, her per capitia GDP and income ranks among the highest in the world, her solar power/green technology is taking off like a gang buster and she might be the first country to truly be free of oil and fossil fuel addictions, she has some of the best doctors in the world, she is nearly completely self-sufficient for her food production (I believe Israel needs to import beef) and there is no immediate large scale threat from any of her neighbors and well she has developed into a stable, industrial, democratic, 1st world country!

Yep it sounds like a country in real crisis mode! :cuckoo:
PF Titmore, you must have been dropped a ton when you were little.

P.S. Sorry if I don't read anything in this thread besides the title. Because debating this thread would be like talking to my dining room chair, I have no use for it!
 

Marc39

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You can waste your entire life posting unsubstantiated links about Jews. Muslims' obsession with the Jews, rather than obsessing on transitioning out of the Middle Ages and getting ahead, is why two-thirds of the world's poverty is concentrated in the Muslim world.
It's why there is no democracy in the Islamic world. Why there is only tyranny, oppression and decay.

Keep posting your idiotic links and Jews will continue to get ahead in the world and demonstrate what a total loser Muhammad was and what freaks and failures Muslims are.

Only this story isn't "unsubstantiated;" it's all over the Israeli media (now that the gag order has been lifted.) It's the "hot topic" in Israel and the subject of intense public and official attention.

So the cat is already out of the bag. Anyone can easily confirm that the details of the case are just as I've posted by simply reading - Ha'aretz, the Jerusalem Post, even Wikipedia and more have all published articles about this case.

Your silly denials of the story, even in the face of coverage by venerable Israeli publications (both on the right and the left) just make you look even more foolish than usual.

Nobody even cares. The world is too worried about the threat of Islamic terrorism and their families' havingtheir throats slit by Muhammadans.

Clean your own house.
 

CMike

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You can waste your entire life posting unsubstantiated links about Jews. Muslims' obsession with the Jews, rather than obsessing on transitioning out of the Middle Ages and getting ahead, is why two-thirds of the world's poverty is concentrated in the Muslim world.
It's why there is no democracy in the Islamic world. Why there is only tyranny, oppression and decay.

Keep posting your idiotic links and Jews will continue to get ahead in the world and demonstrate what a total loser Muhammad was and what freaks and failures Muslims are.

Actually, Palestine had the model democracy in the ME. The elections were the most fair according to international observers. The government included Hamas, Fatah, and a myriad of smaller parties and independents. There were Muslims and Christians, There were men and women. There were peace activists. Most had advanced degrees from international institutions.

It was too good to be allowed to exist so it was destroyed by The US an Israel.

Remember, Palestine was self sufficient and rapidly improving once it was out from under Ottoman rule.

Again it had to be destroyed.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


That was a good one. PA model democracy. Good one.
 

CMike

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In its editorial, Haaretz underlined the central moral irony of the case: the controversy over Blau's reporting on so-called "sensitive" security matters hides the real issue: Israel's military circumvented the High Court by authorizing targeted assassinations outside of the rules of engagement.

"In reality, however, the crime in question is far more severe - the one committed by the security apparatus (GOC Central Command in particular) in ignoring a High Court order and approving the targeted assassination of wanted men who could otherwise have been detained, in strikes that claimed the lives of innocent civilians," Haaretz's editorial board wrote.

Regardless, many unanswered questions remain. What information was contained in the other documents that Blau was forced to hand over? What other, even more unsettling secrets might still be submerged in the recesses of Israeli bureaucracy?

Beyond this, what motivated the Shin Bet to commit the blunder of seeking a court-ordered gag order that embarrassingly collapsed under inevitable media pressure?

Avner Cohen told me he thought one aspect of the motivation was related to "Israeli sensitivity about the Goldstone report," referring to the UN fact-finding mission that accused Israel of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during its offensive on Gaza last year.

Cohen said the underlying context in the Kamm-Blau case is concern within the Israeli government about a "crisis of legitimacy" sparked by the allegations in the Goldstone report.

"There is a nervousness in Israel," he said. "There is a sense that what has been tolerated by the world for decades, the occupation, the checkpoints and so on, that there is less and less tolerance for Israel as occupier."

Maan News Agency: Israel's 'crisis of legitimacy' - Jared Malsin
:blahblah:
 

Marc39

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You can waste your entire life posting unsubstantiated links about Jews. Muslims' obsession with the Jews, rather than obsessing on transitioning out of the Middle Ages and getting ahead, is why two-thirds of the world's poverty is concentrated in the Muslim world.
It's why there is no democracy in the Islamic world. Why there is only tyranny, oppression and decay.

Keep posting your idiotic links and Jews will continue to get ahead in the world and demonstrate what a total loser Muhammad was and what freaks and failures Muslims are.

Actually, Palestine had the model democracy in the ME. The elections were the most fair according to international observers. The government included Hamas, Fatah, and a myriad of smaller parties and independents. There were Muslims and Christians, There were men and women. There were peace activists. Most had advanced degrees from international institutions.

It was too good to be allowed to exist so it was destroyed by The US an Israel.

Remember, Palestine was self sufficient and rapidly improving once it was out from under Ottoman rule.

Again it had to be destroyed.

Actually, there is no country called Palestine, Forum Dunce.
The Nazi Party, too, was elected into power. Mere elections do not equate to democracy.

You're not very bright.

And, Hamas's and Fatah's imposition of fascist sharia law that prohibits women from laughing in public and forces them to swim in burqas is inimcal to democracy.

You are the Forum Dunce.
 

Shogun

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oh looky... someone drops evidence in a thread that validates criticism of israel and the jew throng crawls out from the floorboards like cockroaches and, instead of retorting, do what predictable racist jews do: deflect deflect deflect.

:rofl:


CLASSIC
 

Marc39

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Remember, Palestine was self sufficient and rapidly improving once it was out from under Ottoman rule.

Remember, Forum Dunce, you have zero knowledge of the Middle East and a propensity for making things up.

Palestine Royal Commisison report on squalid conditions in Palestine...
no link, no quote

Hope Simpson Report on desolate conditions in Palestine...
no link no quote
 
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OP
P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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You can waste your entire life posting unsubstantiated links about Jews. Muslims' obsession with the Jews, rather than obsessing on transitioning out of the Middle Ages and getting ahead, is why two-thirds of the world's poverty is concentrated in the Muslim world.
It's why there is no democracy in the Islamic world. Why there is only tyranny, oppression and decay.

Keep posting your idiotic links and Jews will continue to get ahead in the world and demonstrate what a total loser Muhammad was and what freaks and failures Muslims are.

Actually, Palestine had the model democracy in the ME. The elections were the most fair according to international observers. The government included Hamas, Fatah, and a myriad of smaller parties and independents. There were Muslims and Christians, There were men and women. There were peace activists. Most had advanced degrees from international institutions.

It was too good to be allowed to exist so it was destroyed by The US an Israel.

Remember, Palestine was self sufficient and rapidly improving once it was out from under Ottoman rule.

Again it had to be destroyed.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


That was a good one. PA model democracy. Good one.

It was for a short while. Now it is a model US dictatorship.
 

Shogun

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:rofl:

you stupid fucking jew.


Upon the recommendation of the Shaw Commission, the British authorities conducted an investigation into the possibilities for future immigration to and settlement of Palestine. The investigation was headed by Sir John Hope-Simpson, who spent a relatively short amount of time in Palestine reviewing the situation.

Hope-Simpson's main concern was that there was not sufficient land to support continued immigration. According to his report, Arab farmers were suffering from severe economic difficulties. Many were tenant farmers who owed large amounts of money and lacked the means to ensure successful agricultural endeavors. Others were simply unemployed. The report indicated that the Jewish policy of hiring only Jews was responsible for the deplorable conditions in which the Arabs found themselves.

Due to these conditions, Hope-Simpson recommended the cessation of Jewish immigration. Only after new agricultural methods would be introduced in Palestine, would room be made for an additional number of immigrants.


In response, Jewish leaders in the yishuv argued that Hope-Simpson had ignored the capacity for growth in the industrial sector. Stimulating economic growth through increased demand would most likely benefit the Arab economy as well. Hope-Simpson disagreed, seeing the future of Palestine in agriculture, not in industry. Jews also claimed that since they had made a principle of using Jewish labor only, the cessation of immigration would in fact have no effect on Arab unemployment.

The Hope-Simpson Report was published in October, 1930. At the same time, the Passfield White Paper was issued, clarifying British intentions in Palestine.

The Hope-Simpson Report


:rofl:


racist fucking jews, I swear.
 

Marc39

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:rofl:

you stupid fucking jew.


Upon the recommendation of the Shaw Commission, the British authorities conducted an investigation into the possibilities for future immigration to and settlement of Palestine. The investigation was headed by Sir John Hope-Simpson, who spent a relatively short amount of time in Palestine reviewing the situation.

Hope-Simpson's main concern was that there was not sufficient land to support continued immigration. According to his report, Arab farmers were suffering from severe economic difficulties. Many were tenant farmers who owed large amounts of money and lacked the means to ensure successful agricultural endeavors. Others were simply unemployed. The report indicated that the Jewish policy of hiring only Jews was responsible for the deplorable conditions in which the Arabs found themselves.

Due to these conditions, Hope-Simpson recommended the cessation of Jewish immigration. Only after new agricultural methods would be introduced in Palestine, would room be made for an additional number of immigrants.


In response, Jewish leaders in the yishuv argued that Hope-Simpson had ignored the capacity for growth in the industrial sector. Stimulating economic growth through increased demand would most likely benefit the Arab economy as well. Hope-Simpson disagreed, seeing the future of Palestine in agriculture, not in industry. Jews also claimed that since they had made a principle of using Jewish labor only, the cessation of immigration would in fact have no effect on Arab unemployment.

The Hope-Simpson Report was published in October, 1930. At the same time, the Passfield White Paper was issued, clarifying British intentions in Palestine.

The Hope-Simpson Report


:rofl:


racist fucking jews, I swear.

"Racist fucking Jews"? That would appear to be racist, in itself, stoner.

You derided the Jewish Virtual Library in the past as Zionist propaganda, but, now, you use it? Another contradicton, stoner.

Lastly, stoner, the matter at hand is the conditions of Palestine during Ottoman rule, which Hope Simpson and the Peel Commission clearly portrayed as barren and desolate.

The political recommendations of the Hope Simpson Report do not invalidate their observations of the poor conditions of Palestine.

Thus, once, again, stoner, I'm afraid to tell you that you...are...PWNED.
 
OP
P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore

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Once Palestine was out from under Ottoman rule and its taxation and regulations there was improvement. Land that was taken from "tenant farmers" was being returned. Their profits could now be used for capital improvements, unlike the immigrants who were dependent on mooched money.
 
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