Israel is a Settler Colonialism Enterprise - Prove it

[surada]

Philistia was a confederation of cities of Sea Peoples in the Southwest Levant, which included the cities of Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gath, Gaza and for a time Jaffa. It was populated by the Peleset or Philistines, who are believed to have been an Indo-European people who settled in Canaan around the year 1200 BC.
Wikipedia
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Exodus mentions them but they weren't there at the time of the Exodus.

The Philistines lost their independence to Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria by 732 BC, and revolts in following years were all crushed. Later, Nebuchadrezzar II of Babylon eventually conquered all of Syria and the Kingdom of Judah, and the former Philistine cities became part of the Neo-Babylonian Empire.

 

[watchingfromafar]

King David defeated the Philistines and the Nation of Israel was born with Jerusalem as its capital.

David is a myth, a fairytale told to children at bedtime

David & Goliath
David was more than just a musician; he had the heart of a warrior and a set of shepherding skills on the masters' level, especially when it came to the use of the sling. One day, the Philistines and the Israelites were at war; however, the two war parties were on either side of a valley, taunting each other. The Philistines, the non-Semitic people of ancient southern Palestine, had a powerful warrior in their midst, though - Goliath, who (according to the Bible) was nearly ten feet (3 m) tall. Not surprisingly, none of the Israelite warriors dared to fight him.

As Goliath charges toward David, the young man slings a stone, which hits Goliath square in the forehead, knocking him out. David then stands over the giant, grabs the giant's sword, and kills him.
King David - World History Encyclopedia

Superman could have killed Goliath with one hand tied behind his back.

-

 

[Sixties Fan]

David is a myth, a fairytale told to children at bedtime

David & Goliath
David was more than just a musician; he had the heart of a warrior and a set of shepherding skills on the masters' level, especially when it came to the use of the sling. One day, the Philistines and the Israelites were at war; however, the two war parties were on either side of a valley, taunting each other. The Philistines, the non-Semitic people of ancient southern Palestine, had a powerful warrior in their midst, though - Goliath, who (according to the Bible) was nearly ten feet (3 m) tall. Not surprisingly, none of the Israelite warriors dared to fight him.

As Goliath charges toward David, the young man slings a stone, which hits Goliath square in the forehead, knocking him out. David then stands over the giant, grabs the giant's sword, and kills him.
King David - World History Encyclopedia

Superman could have killed Goliath with one hand tied behind his back.
View attachment 540958
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You are a religious nut who hates Jews.

That is all that anyone has to know.

You have nothing to contribute to these threads.

 

[watchingfromafar]

Israelis destroy Palestinian homes
https://tinyurl.com/wbjxbpwj
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[watchingfromafar]

Exodus mentions them but they weren't there at the time of the Exodus.

MOSES KILLS (FIRST TO MURDER)

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brothers, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brothers. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelled in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well. Moses and all the others flee Egypt and are scattered throughout the land.

This marks the beginning of Exodus
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[surada]

MOSES KILLS (FIRST TO MURDER)

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brothers, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brothers. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelled in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well. Moses and all the others flee Egypt and are scattered throughout the land.

This marks the beginning of Exodus
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Exodus mentions the Philistines but the Philistine didn't arrive until 1200 BC.

All the stories are exaggerated and romanticized.

 

[watchingfromafar]

You are a religious nut who hates Jews.

Yes, I have read the Old Testament and I have learned a great deal from it.
No, I do not hate Jews.

In my view, the Israelis need to

Repent
Confess their sins
Ask the Lord for forgiveness​

I am sure He would forgive them, should they ask.
-

 

[Sixties Fan]

Exodus mentions the Philistines but the Philistine didn't arrive until 1200 BC.

All the stories are exaggerated and romanticized.

This thread is NOT about the Philistines.

Start a new thread about them.

 

[watchingfromafar]

All the stories are exaggerated and romanticized.

Agree -

 

[surada]

This thread is NOT about the Philistines.

Start a new thread about them.

You say your stories give you total ownership of the land.. but there were lots of other people there also. You seem to think your stories entitle you to Shaaba Farms, the Golan Heights and the oil and gas reserves off GAZA.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You say your stories give you total ownership of the land.. but there were lots of other people there also. You seem to think your stories entitle you to Shaaba Farms, the Golan Heights and the oil and gas reserves off GAZA.

Israel, or Jews, never said that we have total ownership, or Israel would be disputing TransJordan.

Gaza was never part of the Jewish Homeland, but there were Jews living on it until 1920. By all means forget that Israel gave the part of Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005 at the cost of the security of its citizens who live on that border.

Oil? What oil that Hamas has not been able to take advantage of to this day?

NONE of those nations have survived to tell their story, only the Jewish People are still around to tell theirs, and will continue to be around to do so.

Also, all of those other Nations who were on the land are part of Jewish History, just like every invader who came through the land.

Jews do not deny any of them.

It is Arabs, wanting to deny any sovereignty of any part of the Jewish homeland to the Jewish Nation, who are at war with Israel and trying to destroy the country and its history.

 

[surada]

Israel, or Jews, never said that we have total ownership, or Israel would be disputing TransJordan.

Gaza was never part of the Jewish Homeland, but there were Jews living on it until 1920. By all means forget that Israel gave the part of Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005 at the cost of the security of its citizens who live on that border.

Oil? What oil that Hamas has not been able to take advantage of to this day?

NONE of those nations have survived to tell their story, only the Jewish People are still around to tell theirs, and will continue to be around to do so.

You think all those people just went poof?

 

[toastman]

Ben Gurion claimed the Palestinians were descended from Jewish farmers who stayed in Palestine.. Schlomo Sands says the same thing. With DNA studies 90% of Palestinians have Jewish ancestry.

Look at old maps from the 1800s. It says Palestine NOT Israel. Chaucer and Shakespeare wrote about Palestine.

Much, much earlier Herodotus said Palestine was a province of Syria..

Palestine refers to the British Mandate.

also , who cares what it Was called before. Now it’s called Israel. Deal with it!

 

[P F Tinmore]

The British say it is. The Zionists say it is. The Palestinians say it is. History says it is. The facts on the ground say it is.

I don't see a dispute.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israel is a Settler Colonialism Enterprise - Prove it
SUBTOPIC: Request for Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You'll have to do much better than this.

The British say it is. The Zionists say it is. The Palestinians say it is. History says it is. The facts on the ground say it is.

I don't see a dispute.

(QUESTIONS)

When you say the British say it - let's be clear about it.

◈ When (time period)?​

​

◈ What was the official statement?​

​

◈ Who (what official office on foreign policy made this statement)?​

​

(COMMENT)

My understanding is: that the C-24 Committee that was established by the General Assembly (GA), and devoted to the issue of decolonization, says nothing of the sort.

◈ What are you talking about? The C-24 does not make any statement, relative to Israel at all.​

​

◈ I have not seen any statement by the Israeli Government that claims it is running a sanctioned colonial program by the state.​

​

◈ I have not seen any statement at all by the British Government that openly accuses Israel of being a colonial power.​

​

◈ The Arab Palestinians will say anything to further their cause.​

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, it is my opinion that you are intentionally spreading inflammatory allegations and false, inaccurate, and misleading information on this allegation that Israel meets the threshold of a Colonial Power.

Show me the evidence to support your allegation. Maybe you can earn some measure of credibility.

(MY THOUGHT)

Many people define "colonialism" in variously different ways. What the Israelis are often accused of is the practice of domination. Israel maintains effective control of the territories under discussion given that: left to their own devices, the threat against the sovereign territory of Israel will expand and pose a much more serious threat to Israel than the Hostile Arab Palestinians present today. It is not Israel's intention to subjugate the Arab Palestinians or to exploit their resources, labor, or production.

The purpose is to contain the threat. It is as simple as that. If the Arab Palestinians had demonstrated peaceful intentions at the outset of the 1948 Independence of Israel, their control and capacity to prosper would be many more times as fruitful as it is today.


Most Respectfully,
R

(REFERENCE)

The colonial-era ended gradually after World War II; the only territories still governed as colonies today are small islands.
SOURCE EXCERPT: Britannica Concise Encyclopedia. pp434 © 2006 BY ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA, INC.

 

[surada]

RE: Israel is a Settler Colonialism Enterprise - Prove it
SUBTOPIC: Request for Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You'll have to do much better than this.


(QUESTIONS)

When you say the British say it - let's be clear about it.

◈ When (time period)?​

​

◈ What was the official statement?​

​

◈ Who (what official office on foreign policy made this statement)?​

​

(COMMENT)

My understanding is: that the C-24 Committee that was established by the General Assembly (GA), and devoted to the issue of decolonization, says nothing of the sort.

◈ What are you talking about? The C-24 does not make any statement, relative to Israel at all.​

​

◈ I have not seen any statement by the Israeli Government that claims it is running a sanctioned colonial program by the state.​

​

◈ I have not seen any statement at all by the British Government that openly accuses Israel of being a colonial power.​

​

◈ The Arab Palestinians will say anything to further their cause.​

In the absence of evidence to the contrary, it is my opinion that you are intentionally spreading inflammatory allegations and false, inaccurate, and misleading information on this allegation that Israel meets the threshold of a Colonial Power.

Show me the evidence to support your allegation. Maybe you can earn some measure of credibility.

(MY THOUGHT)

Many people define "colonialism" in variously different ways. What the Israelis are often accused of is the practice of domination. Israel maintains effective control of the territories under discussion given that: left to their own devices, the threat against the sovereign territory of Israel will expand and pose a much more serious threat to Israel than the Hostile Arab Palestinians present today. It is not Israel's intention to subjugate the Arab Palestinians or to exploit their resources, labor, or production.

The purpose is to contain the threat. It is as simple as that. If the Arab Palestinians had demonstrated peaceful intentions at the outset of the 1948 Independence of Israel, their control and capacity to prosper would be many more times as fruitful as it is today.


Most Respectfully,
R

(REFERENCE)

The colonial-era ended gradually after World War II; the only territories still governed as colonies today are small islands.
SOURCE EXCERPT: Britannica Concise Encyclopedia. pp434 © 2006 BY ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA, INC.

Its against the law to build settlements on occupied land.. Of course the Palestinian Arabs, Muslim and Christian resented being force out of their land and having it given to European refugees.

 

[surada]

Contrary to the self-determination and contrary to the historical trend against colonialism, Israel was established as a settler-colonial state at the very top when colonialism in the world context was collapsing and losing war after war. It is a kind of paradox that Israel was established at a moment when colonialism was collapsing.

Israel: The making of a colonial state in a postcolonial world

Richard Falk, a prominent international law expert, perceives Israel as an entity that embodies colonial statecraft despite the end of colonialism following World War I.

www.trtworld.com

 

[surada]

Richard Falk: Of course, it’s a long story which goes back a hundred years to the Balfour Declaration of 1917. The British Foreign Office, at the time being purely colonial, pledged to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

After World War I, Britain was given administrative authority over the entire Palestine as a compromise between their desire to have a Palestinian colony and promise to the Arab countries that they would be independent after WWI, if they joined the fight against the Ottoman Empire.

The origin of Israel is in that pledge at a time when the Jewish population in Palestine was under 5 percent. So the Jews were a very small minority at that point.

It’s also important to remember that the promise was a homeland, not a state. Balfour, himself, in his private papers, indicated that he never anticipated the emergence of a Jewish state in Palestine.

But then came a very concerted effort by the Zionist movement to purchase land in Palestine to encourage the Jews around the world to emigrate to Palestine.

This process was greatly facilitated by the rise of fascism in Europe and particularly, the Nazi movement in Germany. The occurrence of Holocaust involving genocide against six million Jews created a situation where Europe, in particular, and North America, in general, was reluctant to do anything that was seen to block the Zionist project of establishing the state of Israel.

continued

Israel: The making of a colonial state in a postcolonial world

Richard Falk, a prominent international law expert, perceives Israel as an entity that embodies colonial statecraft despite the end of colonialism following World War I.

www.trtworld.com

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israel is a Settler Colonialism Enterprise - Prove it
SUBTOPIC: Hard and Fast Rules
⁜→ surada, et al,

BLUF: I believe the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), sole legitimate representative of the Arab people of Palestine (Para 3, A/PV.2268. 14 October 1974), agree to ANNEX III Protocol Concerning Civil Affairs • ARTICLE IV Special Provisions concerning Area "C" • which assigned Israel full civil and security control over Area "C".

I also think that:

Article V. Declaration of Principles on Interim Self- Government Arrangements September 13, 1993
TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS

1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.
3. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.
4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.

Its against the law to build settlements on occupied land.. Of course the Palestinian Arabs, Muslim and Christian resented being force out of their land and having it given to European refugees.

(COMMENT)

I hear the Pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian (pHoAP) and advocate for the continuation of violence repeat this claim quite often. And in the absence of other legitimate agreements, this might be considered the default position. But, there is Oslo I and Oslo II. And they offer the pHoAP an opportunity to bring the issue of settlements to the forefront of the negotiations.

Now, if you don't believe the Oslo Accords are still relevant, then WHY did the Pre-Trail Chamber I, International Criminal Court, 26 May 2020 (AKA: ICC-01/18-134 26-05-2020 1/4 NM PT) make note:

5. It has come to the Chamber’s attention that, on 19 May 2020, President Abbas declared inter alia that ‘the Palestine Liberation Organization and the State of Palestine are absolved, as of today, of all the agreements and understandings with the American and Israeli governments and of all the commitments based on these understandings and agreements, including the security ones’.​

​

6. The Chamber requests Palestine to provide additional information on this statement, including on the question whether it pertains to any of the Oslo agreements between Palestine and Israel, by no later than 10 June 2020.​

So clearly, the question of the Oslo Accords, witnessed by the world scene and for which Nobel Peace Prizes were awarded, are still in play. And it is an exception to the rule because the interest of the pHoAP was guarded and protected by the close proximity of the international community.

And I do object to the mixing of apples and oranges in your entanglement of "settlements issues" and the "European refugees" → without some clarification.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[surada]

RE: Israel is a Settler Colonialism Enterprise - Prove it
SUBTOPIC: Hard and Fast Rules
⁜→ surada, et al,

BLUF: I believe the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), sole legitimate representative of the Arab people of Palestine (Para 3, A/PV.2268. 14 October 1974), agree to ANNEX III Protocol Concerning Civil Affairs • ARTICLE IV Special Provisions concerning Area "C" • which assigned Israel full civil and security control over Area "C".

I also think that:

Article V. Declaration of Principles on Interim Self- Government Arrangements September 13, 1993
TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS

1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.
3. It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest.
4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.

(COMMENT)

I hear the Pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian (pHoAP) and advocate for the continuation of violence repeat this claim quite often. And in the absence of other legitimate agreements, this might be considered the default position. But, there is Oslo I and Oslo II. And they offer the pHoAP an opportunity to bring the issue of settlements to the forefront of the negotiations.

Now, if you don't believe the Oslo Accords are still relevant, then WHY did the Pre-Trail Chamber I, International Criminal Court, 26 May 2020 (AKA: ICC-01/18-134 26-05-2020 1/4 NM PT) make note:

5. It has come to the Chamber’s attention that, on 19 May 2020, President Abbas declared inter alia that ‘the Palestine Liberation Organization and the State of Palestine are absolved, as of today, of all the agreements and understandings with the American and Israeli governments and of all the commitments based on these understandings and agreements, including the security ones’.​

​

6. The Chamber requests Palestine to provide additional information on this statement, including on the question whether it pertains to any of the Oslo agreements between Palestine and Israel, by no later than 10 June 2020.​

So clearly, the question of the Oslo Accords, witnessed by the world scene and for which Nobel Peace Prizes were awarded, are still in play. And it is an exception to the rule because the interest of the pHoAP was guarded and protected by the close proximity of the international community.

And I do object to the mixing of apples and oranges in your entanglement of "settlements issues" and the "European refugees" → without some clarification.

Most Respectfully,
R

Never heard of the pro-hostile government group.

Oslo was a blip.. Settlement building in the occupied West Bank went to warp speed.

The Zionists weren't happy with the land they were given. Read Moshe Dayan. He explains in detail how they wanted the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Golan and Bekka Valley in Lebanon.