Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

[hobelim]

Apparently all humans are responsible for Adam and Eve's crimes. 'god' put the tree in the garden and since he is all knowing he knew what would happen. He's guilty of temptation of innocents whom he knew could not resist eating apples. He also created the snake and gave it it's purpose.

It is the most heinous case of entrapment ever.

lol... I look at it differently... Its like the king of a peaceful and prosperous kingdom found a wandering homeless person on skid row and took them in, gave them a bath, new clothes, an education, a partner, put some money in his pocket and gave him the run of the place with just one rule. "Don't have sex with my dog. If you do this beautiful life will end in the very same day that you do it."

So what happens? He had sex with the dog and was thrown out and returned to skid row from where he was taken to live out the rest of his days in the wilderness as a wandering numbskull among the wild beasts.

There is a lesson and a teaching somewhere there but I don't think its that God is a entrapping scumbag.

 

[sparky]

humanity has screwed the pooch....

~S~

 

[evenflow1969]

Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?


Christian dogma says that Adam and Eve were murdered by neglect when God locked away the tree of life.


Eve was deceived by Satan and the talking serpent that God put in Eden. This caused the Original Sin concept that Christianity calls a happy fault and necessary to God’s plan.


Was gaining an education and a moral sense, which basically is what gaining knowledge is, justifiable to you?


Can you see yourself punishing your children for gaining an education and a moral sense the way God is punishing Adam and Eve to this day?


Regards

DL

The meaing of the story is a bit deaper. We as humans veiw it as punishment, but it is not! By accepting morals and knowlege we are no longer beasts and are there by culpable for our actions. Had we not taken knowlege we could have acted like beasts with no punishment, but since we took knowlege and morality we are subject to punishment by our maker!

 

[sparky]

>>>>

~S~

 

[hobelim]

>>>>

~S~

Exactly. Every other tree had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat without any trace of evil..



Once the forbidden fruit was eaten humanity was bound to live knowing good and evil until the time came during a persons life, if ever, when they learned to choose good and reject evil.

Once people collectively do this as a species, if ever, they will no longer be living under any curse. At least thats how the story goes.

 

[crazyme]

The unrighteous have an easier life than the righteous do.

The punishment towards the righteous because of the unrighteous.. Why do the nations war and fight? Why do individuals war and fight?

James 4:1-3 "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts."

 

[there4eyeM]

The story, for some of us, is not an indictment of acquiring "knowledge". It is not really about that at all. It was not the fruit of knowledge. It was the fruit of the knowledge of 'good' and 'evil'. The 'realization' of duality. And when we say realization, it means making it real. There is no duality to the universe. Humans impose it with our way of perceiving and thinking. That is the poison, that is what divides 'life' from 'death'.
Remember, the Bible is metaphor. It has to be. The very presumption of talking about 'God', putting into limited words that which cannot be limited, can only be taken as metaphor, even if those thus speaking fail to see it that way.

 

[there4eyeM]

Although we are born into this world and experience good and evil, eventually we will all resurrect and receive immortality. We will will be punished for Adam's transgression. Nor will Adam because he repented of it. The same for Eve his wife.

This is quite possibly true. 'God' has to be beyond our imagining. Simply because we cannot forgive a 'sin' does not oblige in any way the author of all and everything to conform to our interpretation of things.

 

[onefour1]

Although we are born into this world and experience good and evil, eventually we will all resurrect and receive immortality. We will will be punished for Adam's transgression. Nor will Adam because he repented of it. The same for Eve his wife.

After re-reading my own post, I see that it didn't come out exactly how I wanted it to (lazy typing). It should read:

Although we are born into this world and experience good and evil, eventually we will all resurrect and receive immortality. We will NOT be punished for Adam's transgression. Nor will Adam because he repented of it. The same for Eve his wife.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Apparently all humans are responsible for Adam and Eve's crimes. 'god' put the tree in the garden and since he is all knowing he knew what would happen. He's guilty of temptation of innocents whom he knew could not resist eating apples. He also created the snake and gave it it's purpose.

It is the most heinous case of entrapment ever.

lol... I look at it differently... Its like the king of a peaceful and prosperous kingdom found a wandering homeless person on skid row and took them in, gave them a bath, new clothes, an education, a partner, put some money in his pocket and gave him the run of the place with just one rule. "Don't have sex with my dog. If you do this beautiful life will end in the very same day that you do it."

So what happens? He had sex with the dog and was thrown out and returned to skid row from where he was taken to live out the rest of his days in the wilderness as a wandering numbskull among the wild beasts.

There is a lesson and a teaching somewhere there but I don't think its that God is a entrapping scumbag.

So you see the Garden of Eden story more as a transient having sex with a dog.

Did 'god' put that image in your head?

 

[BS Filter]

There is no ongoing punishment if we choose the way out.

 

[james bond]

The era of the ToK is over. It's still an important part of history because it was our origins and still important due to original sin. Is there anything that one can do and be doomed forever? Today, it's about not doing.

 

[onefour1]

Is it true that God had foreknowledge that when he placed Adam and Eve in the garden, he knew they would partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Is it true that He knew that Satan would tempt them and that they would, in their innocent state, succumb to the temptation? YES! God knew the outcome from the beginning. How do we know this? Because he provided a Savior for this world before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Jesus taught:

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

God's desire is that we become like him. After Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit, this was the conversation of the Gods with each other:


Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

It was essential that man come to this earth and live in a fallen state to experience good and evil and learn to choose the good over the evil. This life is a temporary state of being which was created by the fall of Adam and Eve by transgressing the command to not eat of the tree. But God knew all along that man would transgress and thus a fallen state would be created. Here in this fallen state we learn by sorrow, pain, suffering, death, etc some valuable lessons. But death and this fallen state of being are only temporary because Christ hath atoned for original sin and eventually we all will resurrect and become immortal and be able to look back on this earthly experience as a temporary learning experience. The lessons in this life can bring us closer to becoming like our Father in heaven just a Jesus taught that we should.

I imagine that as we lived with God before coming to this earth, that we all wanted to be like him. And by holding counsel in the pre-mortal world, God was to give all of us the opportunity to become more like him. This earth life was part of that plan. I'm sure that we were given a choice whether or not we wanted to go through this mortal existence and I believe we were all willing to do so. Eventually we all will pass on from this earthly existence and receive resurrection and live in immortality, never to die again.

 

[james bond]

One of the sad parts about the ToK was that Adam and Eve didn't last very long in the Garden of Eden no matter how perfect they were. Today, we got imperfect or fallen people, so people would fail the ToK in a heartbeat. It's like I put the most scrumptious, delicious, beautiful and perfect pizza in the world on a table and tell hungry teens not to touch it. I come back five minutes later and see the pizza is gone.

 

[hobelim]

Apparently all humans are responsible for Adam and Eve's crimes. 'god' put the tree in the garden and since he is all knowing he knew what would happen. He's guilty of temptation of innocents whom he knew could not resist eating apples. He also created the snake and gave it it's purpose.

It is the most heinous case of entrapment ever.

lol... I look at it differently... Its like the king of a peaceful and prosperous kingdom found a wandering homeless person on skid row and took them in, gave them a bath, new clothes, an education, a partner, put some money in his pocket and gave him the run of the place with just one rule. "Don't have sex with my dog. If you do this beautiful life will end in the very same day that you do it."

So what happens? He had sex with the dog and was thrown out and returned to skid row from where he was taken to live out the rest of his days in the wilderness as a wandering numbskull among the wild beasts.

There is a lesson and a teaching somewhere there but I don't think its that God is a entrapping scumbag.

So you see the Garden of Eden story more as a transient having sex with a dog.

Did 'god' put that image in your head?

Yes, kind of.. Like sparkie said, humanity screwed the pooch. All of the trees in Eden that had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat represent people, whether teachers, historians, linguists, doctors, artists, craftsmen, farmers, builders, etc. The positive contributors to that society. Something good to learn from all of them.

The forbidden fruit, truth mingled with lies, was the deception of the talking serpent tree. "The truth you know is not the truth at all, its these here alternative truths." Not exactly a dog, but who cares?

And yeah. God told me what to say and how to say it to update the original story so that its teaching can be more easily understood in this day and age.

If you still don't understand you're probably fucking the dog too just like the transient numbskull in the fairy tale,.

 

[Taz]

Apparently all humans are responsible for Adam and Eve's crimes. 'god' put the tree in the garden and since he is all knowing he knew what would happen. He's guilty of temptation of innocents whom he knew could not resist eating apples. He also created the snake and gave it it's purpose.

It is the most heinous case of entrapment ever.

lol... I look at it differently... Its like the king of a peaceful and prosperous kingdom found a wandering homeless person on skid row and took them in, gave them a bath, new clothes, an education, a partner, put some money in his pocket and gave him the run of the place with just one rule. "Don't have sex with my dog. If you do this beautiful life will end in the very same day that you do it."

So what happens? He had sex with the dog and was thrown out and returned to skid row from where he was taken to live out the rest of his days in the wilderness as a wandering numbskull among the wild beasts.

There is a lesson and a teaching somewhere there but I don't think its that God is a entrapping scumbag.

So you see the Garden of Eden story more as a transient having sex with a dog.

Did 'god' put that image in your head?

Yes, kind of.. Like sparkie said, humanity screwed the pooch. All of the trees in Eden that had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat represent people, whether teachers, historians, linguists, doctors, farmers, builders, etc. The positive contributors to that society.

The forbidden fruit was the deception of the talking serpent tree. Not exactly a dog, but who cares?

And yeah. God told me what to say and how to say it to update the original story so that its teaching can be more easily understood in this day and age.

If you still don't understand, you probably screwed the pooch too.

So the story of Eden, that's a real one? It actually happened?

 

[hobelim]

Apparently all humans are responsible for Adam and Eve's crimes. 'god' put the tree in the garden and since he is all knowing he knew what would happen. He's guilty of temptation of innocents whom he knew could not resist eating apples. He also created the snake and gave it it's purpose.

It is the most heinous case of entrapment ever.

lol... I look at it differently... Its like the king of a peaceful and prosperous kingdom found a wandering homeless person on skid row and took them in, gave them a bath, new clothes, an education, a partner, put some money in his pocket and gave him the run of the place with just one rule. "Don't have sex with my dog. If you do this beautiful life will end in the very same day that you do it."

So what happens? He had sex with the dog and was thrown out and returned to skid row from where he was taken to live out the rest of his days in the wilderness as a wandering numbskull among the wild beasts.

There is a lesson and a teaching somewhere there but I don't think its that God is a entrapping scumbag.

So you see the Garden of Eden story more as a transient having sex with a dog.

Did 'god' put that image in your head?

Yes, kind of.. Like sparkie said, humanity screwed the pooch. All of the trees in Eden that had fruit that was pleasing to the eye and good to eat represent people, whether teachers, historians, linguists, doctors, farmers, builders, etc. The positive contributors to that society.

The forbidden fruit was the deception of the talking serpent tree. Not exactly a dog, but who cares?

And yeah. God told me what to say and how to say it to update the original story so that its teaching can be more easily understood in this day and age.

If you still don't understand, you probably screwed the pooch too.

So the story of Eden, that's a real one? It actually happened?

Yes, just like the story of the boy who cried wolf actually happened and happens all the time.


One day children will be wondering if the story of bat boy being restored into a real boy by a sky fairy and escaping from the dungeons of hell to live happily ever after actually happened.

 

[there4eyeM]

[/QUOTE]So the story of Eden, that's a real one? It actually happened?[/QUOTE]
"...the Bible is metaphor. It has to be. The very presumption of talking about 'God', putting into limited words that which cannot be limited, can only be taken as metaphor, even if those thus speaking fail to see it that way."

 

[BS Filter]

So the story of Eden, that's a real one? It actually happened?[/QUOTE]
"...the Bible is metaphor. It has to be. The very presumption of talking about 'God', putting into limited words that which cannot be limited, can only be taken as metaphor, even if those thus speaking fail to see it that way."[/QUOTE]
Some things are metaphors or parables, some things are literal. The miracles were real events. God really did part the sea and Israel crossed on dry land.

 

[hobelim]

Some things are metaphors or parables, some things are literal. The miracles were real events. God really did part the sea and Israel crossed on dry land.

And Jesus literally bodily ascended into heaven in full view of his enemies but what actually happened had absolutely nothing whatever to do with him literally floating up into the sky.

No one ever floated up into the sky. Its impossible. You already know this.

Whats left?

You have to use your intelligence and think deeply to know what the story is actually about, what actually happened.

But don't take my word for it. Do it. Think deeply. It really isn't that hard and no one can stop you.

You can even do it in secret.