CDZ Is preventing one Corona death worth 1,000 people losing their jobs?

[2aguy]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

 

[NotYourBody]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

Then you are foolish..........when you have no job, no money, no place to live, no food............because of a virus scare that you have a 98% chance of surviving if you get it.........

Yes.......the truth comes out......let others die......crack those eggs to make that omelete............

Trump had nothing to do with this.....this is all on the democrat party and their people at the CDC and NIH...

As a reminder, I am not the one advocating to open up the economy when we haven't even reached the peak of the outbreak. YOU are the one making the omelette. You are the one anxious to let people die for the sake of money.

This is the TrumpVirus. 100%. He knew what was coming. He was told by Peter Navarro what was coming in January for fucks sake. He could have acted far sooner than he did to manage this crisis. Instead he abdicated. Fuck Trump and fuck his supporters for thinking he is smart enough to handle anything like this. He can't even put on his makeup properly.

I thank God I am in California. One of the states who took this shit seriously. Gov. Newsome slow walked this state of 40 million people, and the world's 5th largest economy into a shutdown. And it is working. We are not suffering as much as other states. So far.

In addition, California produces more food than any other state. I think we'll be okay. You on the other hand.....sucks for you.

 

[NotYourBody]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

 

[Desperado]

If their under lying condition was going to kill them anyway, what's the point?

 

[2aguy]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

Then you are foolish..........when you have no job, no money, no place to live, no food............because of a virus scare that you have a 98% chance of surviving if you get it.........

Yes.......the truth comes out......let others die......crack those eggs to make that omelete............

Trump had nothing to do with this.....this is all on the democrat party and their people at the CDC and NIH...

As a reminder, I am not the one advocating to open up the economy when we haven't even reached the peak of the outbreak. YOU are the one making the omelette. You are the one anxious to let people die for the sake of money.

This is the TrumpVirus. 100%. He knew what was coming. He was told by Peter Navarro what was coming in January for fucks sake. He could have acted far sooner than he did to manage this crisis. Instead he abdicated. Fuck Trump and fuck his supporters for thinking he is smart enough to handle anything like this. He can't even put on his makeup properly.

I thank God I am in California. One of the states who took this shit seriously. Gov. Newsome slow walked this state of 40 million people, and the world's 5th largest economy into a shutdown. And it is working. We are not suffering as much as other states. So far.

In addition, California produces more food than any other state. I think we'll be okay. You on the other hand.....sucks for you.

It isn't money.......it is lives......more lives than this virus will take.......you don't understand history, you don't know what a Great Depression will do to normal Americans...

What part of no jobs for a decade or more do you not understand.........?

Experts, Pseudo-Experts, and Other Progressive Conceits

The downloads folder on my computer is jammed full right now with endless charts depicting data and analysis of both the COVID-19 pandemic and the economic shocks rolling across the world, and naturally they can tell a widely varying story depending on the data quality and, most crucial of all...

www.powerlineblog.com

The person behind that model, Neil Ferguson, gave an interview to the Financial Times today that includes this shocking admission that his model was a clear instance of policy-based evidence making:

“The paper came out that day partly because there was pressure on government to be showing the modelling informing policymaking, so we worked very hard to get that paper out at that time.”

To which the Financial Times comments:

The above implies the government was aware of the potential death toll – or the one being projected by the scientists on their advisory committee, anyway – but had not considered a drastic lockdown strategy until it became clear that the likely number of deaths from any other strategy would not be seen as politically acceptable. It seems, therefore, that the paper was published at that time partly to help justify a change in the messaging. A “U-turn” doesn’t seem like quite the right term, therefore, for what happened.

It is possible that when the dust settles months from now, a careful review of everything from the evidence, data handling, bureaucratic miasma, practical decisions, and economic consequences might reveal not merely mistakes and failures but possibly mistakes and failures on a scandalous scale.

The point is: It is not “anti-science” to be skeptical of claims to expertise in social and political matters. In fact I wouldn’t much trust a leader who wasn’t skeptical.

 

[2aguy]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

They have what you will get.....a crappy health care system that allowed people to die.......dittos china...where do you think people will get their healthcare if the economy collapses?

 

[Marion Morrison]

I say no. One person dying is a singular event. One thousand people losing their jobs has lasting repercussions. What say you?

Spot on! This "Covid-19" panic + shutdown is being used to fast-track the agenda that "Global Warming" failed at.

The shutdown will cause many more deaths and hundreds of times more poverty than Covid-19 ever could.

(They hope, and that's why they're pushing shutdown as long as possible)

Virtue signaling from all the media: "Stay Home, it's for the good of everybody".

It's not good for those that are gonna be jobless and evicted here in a week or so. Not good at all.

 

[Zander]

Time for some perspective.

Since the "Pandemic" officially started on March 11 (that is the date the Chinese run W.H.O. officially declared the Kung-flu a pandemic) , the USA has had approximately 205,000 deaths from all causes. We've had roughly 10,000 deaths attributed to Kung-flu.

 

[2aguy]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

So....Tony Blair of Britain is stating if the economy in Britain Collapses, the National Health Service collapses.....how many deaths will that cause?

Do you understand how you are wrong when you say it is lives or money?

I doubt you will get it........but it is the truth.

 

[NotYourBody]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

So....Tony Blair of Britain is stating if the economy in Britain Collapses, the National Health Service collapses.....how many deaths will that cause?

Do you understand how you are wrong when you say it is lives or money?

I doubt you will get it........but it is the truth.

Do you understand that sending everyone back to restaurants, bars, sporting event, cult rallies, churches, etc. right now will overwhelm our shitty for-profit healthcare system? Look at Michigan. They are literally BEGGING for healthcare workers.

So the economy won't really matter when everyone is too sick to work and no way to get healthcare.

But you'll never get it. It is lives or money. Right now it is lives or money. I don't gaf about what you THINK might happen to the economy.

 

[2aguy]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

So....Tony Blair of Britain is stating if the economy in Britain Collapses, the National Health Service collapses.....how many deaths will that cause?

Do you understand how you are wrong when you say it is lives or money?

I doubt you will get it........but it is the truth.

Do you understand that sending everyone back to restaurants, bars, sporting event, cult rallies, churches, etc. right now will overwhelm our shitty for-profit healthcare system? Look at Michigan. They are literally BEGGING for healthcare workers.

So the economy won't really matter when everyone is too sick to work and no way to get healthcare.

But you'll never get it. It is lives or money. Right now it is lives or money. I don't gaf about what you THINK might happen to the economy.

What do you mean shitty for profit system? Our system allows us to have more beds in hospitals than just about anyone else....and we would have even more beds but the government puts a limit on how many beds we can have....that's right, government...not the for profit system....

It isn't lives or money, it is lives vs. lives......

How long can you live without a job? 5 years, 10 years.........that is what we might be facing...how will you pay for your healthcare without a job for 5 years.....?

 

[2aguy]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

So....Tony Blair of Britain is stating if the economy in Britain Collapses, the National Health Service collapses.....how many deaths will that cause?

Do you understand how you are wrong when you say it is lives or money?

I doubt you will get it........but it is the truth.

Do you understand that sending everyone back to restaurants, bars, sporting event, cult rallies, churches, etc. right now will overwhelm our shitty for-profit healthcare system? Look at Michigan. They are literally BEGGING for healthcare workers.

So the economy won't really matter when everyone is too sick to work and no way to get healthcare.

But you'll never get it. It is lives or money. Right now it is lives or money. I don't gaf about what you THINK might happen to the economy.

Socialist systems fail.....if people aren't working, they aren't creating wealth...without money, they can't pay for national healthcare let alone private healthcare.....do you think people will die as a result of no healthcare?

The only reason the British healthcare system hasn't already collapsed is the United States protects them with our military, we provide their drugs, and we create the innovative medical technology they use.....in diminishing numbers as the inability to fund their system increases....

The British have national healthcare....crappy national healthcare, only because of the for profit systems of the United States....without us, they wouldn't have what they have....

England's ravaged public health system just can't cope with the coronavirus | Gabriel Scally

Huge cuts and the decimation of regional bodies have left us ill-prepared for a crisis like this, says Gabriel Scally, a former regional director of public health

www.theguardian.com

Now the world is faced with a virus with no readily available vaccine or treatment. The NHS has also had 10 years of significant underfunding – and England, in particular, has an operational and management system that is fragmented and lacks an effective command and control structure. The public health function in England has been removed from the NHS and incorporated into local government, where its budgets have been systematically raided to prop up local councils that have suffered catastrophic cuts in the name of austerity.

Local authority functions closely aligned with public health, such as environmental health and social services, have been notable casualties. Within the local government world, the once powerful directors of public health have seen their influence decline, along with their staffing and resources.

The impoverishment of the NHS and the public health system in England is not the only depletion that has occurred in civil society that makes us ill-equipped to respond effectively to the greatest global health crisis in a century.

 

[NotYourBody]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

So....Tony Blair of Britain is stating if the economy in Britain Collapses, the National Health Service collapses.....how many deaths will that cause?

Do you understand how you are wrong when you say it is lives or money?

I doubt you will get it........but it is the truth.

Do you understand that sending everyone back to restaurants, bars, sporting event, cult rallies, churches, etc. right now will overwhelm our shitty for-profit healthcare system? Look at Michigan. They are literally BEGGING for healthcare workers.

So the economy won't really matter when everyone is too sick to work and no way to get healthcare.

But you'll never get it. It is lives or money. Right now it is lives or money. I don't gaf about what you THINK might happen to the economy.

What do you mean shitty for profit system? Our system allows us to have more beds in hospitals than just about anyone else....and we would have even more beds but the government puts a limit on how many beds we can have....that's right, government...not the for profit system....

It isn't lives or money, it is lives vs. lives......

How long can you live without a job? 5 years, 10 years.........that is what we might be facing...how will you pay for your healthcare without a job for 5 years.....?

Now you're sounding like Chicken Little. It's a couple of months to let our shitty for profit healthcare system handle this mess. You can't survive a couple of months? Well that's on you. Maybe you should have saved your Trump tax cut to see you through these tough times instead of insisting that people need to die for $$$.

Yes, our shitty for-profit healthcare system, where staffing has been cut to the bare minimum so now there is not enough staff to run all these ventilators people are yammering about. What good are ventilators without staff to run them?

 

[freyasman]

You first. My husband and I both have compromised immune systems. No way are we going back out into virus land until there is way more containment and control.

This is exactly why you and your husband should practice extreme quarantine measures. But why should everybody else be quarantined and the economy shut down?

Oh we have been practicing quarantine since early February, more out of seasonal flu concerns than COVID. It certainly became more extreme when we saw what was happening in Italy.

But it's not only about my husband and myself. Our daughter is a front line healthcare worker. Why should any healthcare worker's life be put at risk, before therapies and vaccines are developed, because some fool thinks a $ is worth more than their lives?

No. I'll never accept that as a rational position. Economies can recover. Dead people can't.

Collapsed economies historically result in massive crime, wars, and famines which also means lots of death.

Read a history book sometime.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Self Renowned Experts Fearing Accountability And Cowering Behind A Facade Of Authority "

* Unnecessary Question *

Simple facts are that using an inactive virus , one exposed to ultraviolet light , can be administered without adverse effects and also provide immunity against a live virus in about 7 to 21 days , meaning that the cdc is full of goofballs and the president is an impotent commander in chief for not authorizing a directive to roll it out in response to what appears to be a national emergency .

Instead of following tried and true traditions to expeditiously end this macabre , the cdc is following an overly complicated and necessarily time extensive protocol for a solution that does not allow the body to kill an active virus but only stops the means by which the virus has evolved to find a pathway into the body .

Immunogenicity, safety, and protective efficacy of an inactivated SARS-associated coronavirus vaccine in rhesus monkeys - PubMed

An inactivated vaccine for severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) was evaluated in rhesus monkeys. The monkeys were inoculated intramuscularly (i.m.) with 0.5, 5, 50, or 5000 microg of vaccine, or PBS as control, and boosted on day 7. After 3 weeks, they were...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No systematic side effects were observed in vaccinated animals post-immunization, even in at the high dose of 5000 microg. The 50 microg dosage of vaccine elicited SARS-CoV specific immune responses against viral infection as compared to the partial immunity elicited by 0.5 and 5 microg doses. The results show that this inactivated vaccine can induce effective concomitant humoral and mucosal immunity against SARS-CoV infection, is safe in monkeys, and the vaccine maybe a good candidate for clinical trials.

First Person Injected With Trial Coronavirus Vaccine In Seattle

43-year old Jennifer Haller from Seattle was the first person to be injected with a new trial coronavirus vaccine on Monday. Researchers will follow her and 44 other people for 12 months to evaluate the vaccine.

www.forbes.com

The vaccine cannot cause COVID-19 and does not contain the virus as is the case with some other vaccines. Instead it contains a small piece of genetic code called mRNA which scientists have extracted from the virus and then expanded in the laboratory. In this case, the mRNA encodes the viral “spike” protein which is vital for the coronavirus to gain access to human cells. The researchers hope that the vaccine will stimulate the immune system to attack the virus, preventing the development of COVID-19.

 

[2aguy]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

So....Tony Blair of Britain is stating if the economy in Britain Collapses, the National Health Service collapses.....how many deaths will that cause?

Do you understand how you are wrong when you say it is lives or money?

I doubt you will get it........but it is the truth.

Do you understand that sending everyone back to restaurants, bars, sporting event, cult rallies, churches, etc. right now will overwhelm our shitty for-profit healthcare system? Look at Michigan. They are literally BEGGING for healthcare workers.

So the economy won't really matter when everyone is too sick to work and no way to get healthcare.

But you'll never get it. It is lives or money. Right now it is lives or money. I don't gaf about what you THINK might happen to the economy.

What do you mean shitty for profit system? Our system allows us to have more beds in hospitals than just about anyone else....and we would have even more beds but the government puts a limit on how many beds we can have....that's right, government...not the for profit system....

It isn't lives or money, it is lives vs. lives......

How long can you live without a job? 5 years, 10 years.........that is what we might be facing...how will you pay for your healthcare without a job for 5 years.....?

Now you're sounding like Chicken Little. It's a couple of months to let our shitty for profit healthcare system handle this mess. You can't survive a couple of months? Well that's on you. Maybe you should have saved your Trump tax cut to see you through these tough times instead of insisting that people need to die for $$$.

Yes, our shitty for-profit healthcare system, where staffing has been cut to the bare minimum so now there is not enough staff to run all these ventilators people are yammering about. What good are ventilators without staff to run them?

The NHS is running out of money.........they can't keep doctors and nurses on the clock punching salary from the British government........you don't understand any of the issues involved in this.....

It won't be surviving a couple of months......people will likely be out of work for years, if not a decade....did you ever study the Great Depression in school....? Likely not, other than what a wonderful guy FDR was......and he was the reason it lasted as long as it did.....

 

[2aguy]

You first. My husband and I both have compromised immune systems. No way are we going back out into virus land until there is way more containment and control.

This is exactly why you and your husband should practice extreme quarantine measures. But why should everybody else be quarantined and the economy shut down?

Oh we have been practicing quarantine since early February, more out of seasonal flu concerns than COVID. It certainly became more extreme when we saw what was happening in Italy.

But it's not only about my husband and myself. Our daughter is a front line healthcare worker. Why should any healthcare worker's life be put at risk, before therapies and vaccines are developed, because some fool thinks a $ is worth more than their lives?

No. I'll never accept that as a rational position. Economies can recover. Dead people can't.

Collapsed economies historically result in massive crime, wars, and famines which also means lots of death.

Read a history book sometime.

Yes....the Great Depression helped hitler come to power........

 

[NotYourBody]

Easy too say, but what if that one death is you your child your parent, would that change the value?

Or what if your child was a front line healthcare worker who had to care for the fools who think jobs are more important than life? Would that change anything?

Who said jobs are more important than life? We are talking lives vs. lives....do you understand what a Great Depression means for the country and for the world? How many lives will be lost going forward vs. what is now proving likely to be a bad seasonal flu number? And yes....all the models are being pulled back.........look at the news......

Can you see the effects on 10s of millions of people who have no jobs, no money for a decade? Do you understand what that means for people dying from stress, suicide, alcohol and drug abuse?

I have relatives on the front lines of this too........so virtue signaling on your part has no weight.

So which one of those relatives are you willing to offer up as a sacrifice to the economy?

None, which of the millions going forward are you willing to sacrifice ....who will also die because everyone over reacted to a virus that will likely not be worse than the seasonal flu? Which of those people will you kill?

All of them if it saves my child.

Virtue signaling, lmao. There is nothing virtuous here. I dgaf about the economy right now. Not one single fuck. We haven't even reached the worst yet in this country. If some of your free-spending, non-saving relatives, friends, acquaintances, political allies, etc. can't make it for a COUPLE OF DAMN MONTHS then they can go ahead and die. And I guess the Trump economy just wasn't that great after all.

You have no idea what you are talking about....

Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy › American Greatness

The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told…

amgreatness.com

Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.


All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.

Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).


To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters.

Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.
-----

President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.

Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

You should send that essay to the people in Italy and Spain. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

So....Tony Blair of Britain is stating if the economy in Britain Collapses, the National Health Service collapses.....how many deaths will that cause?

Do you understand how you are wrong when you say it is lives or money?

I doubt you will get it........but it is the truth.

Do you understand that sending everyone back to restaurants, bars, sporting event, cult rallies, churches, etc. right now will overwhelm our shitty for-profit healthcare system? Look at Michigan. They are literally BEGGING for healthcare workers.

So the economy won't really matter when everyone is too sick to work and no way to get healthcare.

But you'll never get it. It is lives or money. Right now it is lives or money. I don't gaf about what you THINK might happen to the economy.

What do you mean shitty for profit system? Our system allows us to have more beds in hospitals than just about anyone else....and we would have even more beds but the government puts a limit on how many beds we can have....that's right, government...not the for profit system....

It isn't lives or money, it is lives vs. lives......

How long can you live without a job? 5 years, 10 years.........that is what we might be facing...how will you pay for your healthcare without a job for 5 years.....?

Now you're sounding like Chicken Little. It's a couple of months to let our shitty for profit healthcare system handle this mess. You can't survive a couple of months? Well that's on you. Maybe you should have saved your Trump tax cut to see you through these tough times instead of insisting that people need to die for $$$.

Yes, our shitty for-profit healthcare system, where staffing has been cut to the bare minimum so now there is not enough staff to run all these ventilators people are yammering about. What good are ventilators without staff to run them?

The NHS is running out of money.........they can't keep doctors and nurses on the clock punching salary from the British government........you don't understand any of the issues involved in this.....

It won't be surviving a couple of months......people will likely be out of work for years, if not a decade....did you ever study the Great Depression in school....? Likely not, other than what a wonderful guy FDR was......and he was the reason it lasted as long as it did.....

Then I guess we are even stupider than the Brits. Because our shitty for-profit healthcare system can't kept enough doctors, nurses, pharmacists employed. And we spend 15% MORE for our shitty for-profit system.

Additionally, we have worse outcomes. Our life expectancy is lower than the Brits and our infant mortality is higher.

So why do you think we are so much better off than the Brits regarding healthcare that we pay so much more to receive?

We will not agree on this. Ever. You are willing to sacrifice lives for $$ in order to get people back to work right now and we have not even hit the peak of this outbreak, have no established therapies, and no vaccine. That is some bizarre thinking imo. No amount of money is worth the suffering that bullshit will cause.

 

[NotYourBody]

You first. My husband and I both have compromised immune systems. No way are we going back out into virus land until there is way more containment and control.

This is exactly why you and your husband should practice extreme quarantine measures. But why should everybody else be quarantined and the economy shut down?

Oh we have been practicing quarantine since early February, more out of seasonal flu concerns than COVID. It certainly became more extreme when we saw what was happening in Italy.

But it's not only about my husband and myself. Our daughter is a front line healthcare worker. Why should any healthcare worker's life be put at risk, before therapies and vaccines are developed, because some fool thinks a $ is worth more than their lives?

No. I'll never accept that as a rational position. Economies can recover. Dead people can't.

Collapsed economies historically result in massive crime, wars, and famines which also means lots of death.

Read a history book sometime.

Yes....the Great Depression helped hitler come to power........

Our economy is collapsed right now. I don't see massive crime, war, or famine breaking out. It's two months. Most of us will handle it just fine.

It's the best economy in the history of the world. Right?

 

[linux07]

Absolutely, if it were patient zero. This whole thing could have been avoided had we actually cares about patient zero, before the exponential growth could take off