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Incels.

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Correll

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Bullshit.

Every time I mention they need to change themselves to make their lives better you make excuses as to why they can't and then say that society should change to accomodate them


Because every time you do that, you do it in such a way to dismiss any hint that there could be any cause other than their personal issues.


That is you being unreasonable. And considering the people suffering, even hateful.
 

Blues Man

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Because every time you do that, you do it in such a way to dismiss any hint that there could be any cause other than their personal issues.


That is you being unreasonable. And considering the people suffering, even hateful.
Until they actually make changes the ROOT cause will never be addressed and the roof cause of any personal issue is the PERSON

You don;t even want them to try to change
 
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Until they actually make changes the ROOT cause will never be addressed and the roof cause of any personal issue is the PERSON

You don;t even want them to try to change


If the incels of now, made "changes" that managed to get them mates, right now, magically and the movement was just...gone,



The causes and conditions that led to it, would still be there, and it would just reform in a few years.


AND, the other effects those causes and conditions are likely having, would be rolling on, unimpeded, hurting people by the millions.


Your odd focus on the incels personally, is not right. On many levels.
 

Blues Man

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If the incels of now, made "changes" that managed to get them mates, right now, magically and the movement was just...gone,



The causes and conditions that led to it, would still be there, and it would just reform in a few years.


AND, the other effects those causes and conditions are likely having, would be rolling on, unimpeded, hurting people by the millions.


Your odd focus on the incels personally, is not right. On many levels.
Nothing magical about personal change it actually takes work. But most incels don't want to actually do the work to improve themselves work what they want to do is whine on the internet about how badly women treat them
 
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Nothing magical about personal change it actually takes work. But most incels don't want to actually do the work to improve themselves work what they want to do is whine on the internet about how badly women treat them


The ones I know, that is not what I have seen. Not even close.
 

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I've been noticing an attempt by some on the Left to conflate all INCELS with the bitter, angry and/or violent incels or... what have you from the Male Rights Movement.
As someone who knows the Manosphere very well, I would like to clarify the position of Men's Rights Activists (MRA), Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW), Pick up Artists (PUA), and InCels.


Men's Rights Activists (MRA) believe in Gender Equality, and we focus on issues in which men face discrimination in Modern Society. Paradoxically, we are close to the Dictionary definition of Feminism. We believe in Presumption of Innocence for men accused of Sexual Misconduct. Sadly, most modern Universities and employers practice Presumption of Guilt. We believe that male victims of Domestic Violence should get equal protection to female victims. Sadly, in Modern Western Society, male victims of Domestic Violence are more likely to be arrested then helped. We oppose Hate Speech directed at male gender. Sadly, anti-male Hate Speech is very common and widely tolerated on Social Media. MRA ideas should not have been controversial. Unfortunately, female perpetrators of Domestic Violence have a vested interest in destroying our reputation by associating us with non-egalitarian fractions of the Manosphere.


Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) mention the same problems as MRAs, but their approach is not Egalitarian. MGTOWs believe that women are naturally abusive -- we disagree with that 100%.


Pick up Artists (PUA) are considerably more extreme then the two previous groups. In addition to viewing women as shallow, PUA also develop tactics for seducing women. Sometimes these tactics cross into Sexual Misconduct. Many Progressive men are in fact PUAs.


Even though about 50% of Modern American men are "involuntarily celibate", very few men subscribe to the InCel ideology -- by far the most extreme branch of the Manosphere. InCel ideology blames women for refusing to date unattractive and low social status men. Obviously, this is absolutely wrong. InCel ideology does not stand for Egalitarianism and promotes Patriarchy as it existed in most Societies for about four millennia up to the end of XIXth Century. Their ideas are morally wrong, impossible, and unviable.


Most men who are caught up into InCel ideology are lonely and disabled men. Many InCels have severe Depression. Even though a few InCels have committed inexcusable acts of Terrorism, most InCels harm only themselves.
 
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As someone who knows the Manosphere very well, I would like to clarify the position of Men's Rights Activists (MRA), Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW), Pick up Artists (PUA), and InCels.


Men's Rights Activists (MRA) believe in Gender Equality, and we focus on issues in which men face discrimination in Modern Society. Paradoxically, we are close to the Dictionary definition of Feminism. We believe in Presumption of Innocence for men accused of Sexual Misconduct. Sadly, most modern Universities and employers practice Presumption of Guilt. We believe that male victims of Domestic Violence should get equal protection to female victims. Sadly, in Modern Western Society, male victims of Domestic Violence are more likely to be arrested then helped. We oppose Hate Speech directed at male gender. Sadly, anti-male Hate Speech is very common and widely tolerated on Social Media. MRA ideas should not have been controversial. Unfortunately, female perpetrators of Domestic Violence have a vested interest in destroying our reputation by associating us with non-egalitarian fractions of the Manosphere.


Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) mention the same problems as MRAs, but their approach is not Egalitarian. MGTOWs believe that women are naturally abusive -- we disagree with that 100%.


Pick up Artists (PUA) are considerably more extreme then the two previous groups. In addition to viewing women as shallow, PUA also develop tactics for seducing women. Sometimes these tactics cross into Sexual Misconduct. Many Progressive men are in fact PUAs.


Even though about 50% of Modern American men are "involuntarily celibate", very few men subscribe to the InCel ideology -- by far the most extreme branch of the Manosphere. InCel ideology blames women for refusing to date unattractive and low social status men. Obviously, this is absolutely wrong. InCel ideology does not stand for Egalitarianism and promotes Patriarchy as it existed in most Societies for about four millennia up to the end of XIXth Century. Their ideas are morally wrong, impossible, and unviable.


Most men who are caught up into InCel ideology are lonely and disabled men. Many InCels have severe Depression. Even though a few InCels have committed inexcusable acts of Terrorism, most InCels harm only themselves.


Thank you for a very serious and informative response.


Something I have wondered is if society might be teaching young men and women incorrect information or flawed practices in how to do relationships, and that this might be contributing to the overall lower marriage rate, and high divorce rate, and that the Incels might be the... far end of that curve.


(full disclosure: Early in my dating period, I felt that my information was wrong and I worked to come up with a better framework and "tactics for seducing women", with...better results, including final success as a so far successful marriage)
 

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