If President Trump Does Not Pardon Julian Assange, Then Trump Was Deep State After All

[surada]

... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...

You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.

What you believe is wrong.. My family was there to monitor Gaddafi for Esso Libya. He wasn't a puppet. He was horribly anti American that's why he hired Abdullah Tariki who had been the oil minister in KSA .. He was fired by the King for being anti American and demanding that ARAMCO be nationalized..

Libya did nationalize their oil business prematurely and damn near killed their oil business.. They were a pariah state for the next 20 years.

But even though I am born and live in the US, I also hate the US government.
Anyone with any ethics should be anti-American.
So being anti-American does not mean he was not a puppet, just not a US puppet.
My opinion is he was picked by the southern hill tribal elders.
I think nationalizing oil interest is always a good idea, because I think the multi national oil companies are very harmful.

Then you don't know anything about the oil business.. You need time to train up a labor pool to take over.. Gaddafi wrecked their oil business because he nationalized prematurely.

It depends.. The British model was very negative and exploited the people and their resources.. The American model did not... and nationalization was built in on a timeline agreed upon with the original concession.. Their revenue share was 50-50 whereas the Brits paid Iran 7 cents on the dollar.. After Operation Ajax in 1952-3.. they did increase it to 13 cents. .

There are lots of independents who could have helped in a transition.
Russians if nothing else.
The harm British or US oil companies would do is to pump too quickly, and deplete the resources when oil is too low in price.
Any country should always nationalize oil so they can conserve it so it last longer.
Eventually when world supplies run low, THAT is when you want to still have oil, and sell it for the highest possible price.

Pump too fast? That isn't how it works.. and they don't pump oil in the Middle East. They drill wells all the time and cap most of them depending on pressure, flow rate and quality or ease of refining.. Libya's oil is light and sweet for the most part. They use gas injection to keep pressure up and put Christmas trees over the bore holes NOT rocker pumps.

Reserve management is required and oil reserve measurement is an art .. its an economic measurement not a barrels per borehole measurement.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Very troubling. Most of President Trump's "accomplishments" were directed toward jews (often in Israel), blacks, browns, reds, and yellows. Most of his appointees were Deep State. His nod to Whitey is about 401Ks being up assuming all Whites had ETFs in the DOW. Now he has been attacked by big tech (jews for the most part) and prevented from accessing internet social media. Yet he does not pardon the dude, Julan Assange, who risked his life to promote free speech and expose some elements of the Deep State and even helped get him elected? WTF?

You have to be joking. If you are not you are a very sick and dangerous human. Our society has to find a way to stop people like you before you take actions to hurt and kill people.
The individuals that have attacked synagogues and killed people say what you say. You should be turned into the FBI, as a potential domestic terrorist. You are not the only one on this site. Maybe you have been turned in. I hope so.

 

[ElmerMudd]

... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...

You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.

He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.

True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.

Absolutely, but short of putting a huge occupation force in place tokeep Gaddafiin power there was NOTHING the US could do.. By the end .. Gaddafi hadn't friend in the world.. not even Mugabe would touch him.

I disagree.
I do not think the rebel force in Benghazi was more than a paper tiger.
And the rebels were NOT actually Libyan.
They were entirely mercenary as well, funded and armed totally by the CIA.
Qaddafi was actually somewhat popular with the real population of Libya.
The proof of that is how screwed up Libya is now.
There now are more ISIS and al Qaeda than anything else.

Do you realize you are bat ass crazy

 

[surada]

... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...

You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.

He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.

True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.

Absolutely, but short of putting a huge occupation force in place tokeep Gaddafiin power there was NOTHING the US could do.. By the end .. Gaddafi hadn't friend in the world.. not even Mugabe would touch him.

I disagree.
I do not think the rebel force in Benghazi was more than a paper tiger.
And the rebels were NOT actually Libyan.
They were entirely mercenary as well, funded and armed totally by the CIA.
Qaddafi was actually somewhat popular with the real population of Libya.
The proof of that is how screwed up Libya is now.
There now are more ISIS and al Qaeda than anything else.

Nope.. Why would you think this was CIA?

There were two attacks hours apart.. and the were Eastern tribes. ISIS didn't move into Derna in any significant numbers until 2013.

How ISIS Spread in Syria and Iraq—and How to Stop It - The ...

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/

...
Oct 29, 2015 · Whiteside estimates that between July 2012 and July 2013, ISIS orchestrated seven major prisons raids, culminating in a spectacular, well-organized breakout …

 

[Rigby5]

... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...

You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.

What you believe is wrong.. My family was there to monitor Gaddafi for Esso Libya. He wasn't a puppet. He was horribly anti American that's why he hired Abdullah Tariki who had been the oil minister in KSA .. He was fired by the King for being anti American and demanding that ARAMCO be nationalized..

Libya did nationalize their oil business prematurely and damn near killed their oil business.. They were a pariah state for the next 20 years.

But even though I am born and live in the US, I also hate the US government.
Anyone with any ethics should be anti-American.
So being anti-American does not mean he was not a puppet, just not a US puppet.
My opinion is he was picked by the southern hill tribal elders.
I think nationalizing oil interest is always a good idea, because I think the multi national oil companies are very harmful.

Then you don't know anything about the oil business.. You need time to train up a labor pool to take over.. Gaddafi wrecked their oil business because he nationalized prematurely.

It depends.. The British model was very negative and exploited the people and their resources.. The American model did not... and nationalization was built in on a timeline agreed upon with the original concession.. Their revenue share was 50-50 whereas the Brits paid Iran 7 cents on the dollar.. After Operation Ajax in 1952-3.. they did increase it to 13 cents. .

There are lots of independents who could have helped in a transition.
Russians if nothing else.
The harm British or US oil companies would do is to pump too quickly, and deplete the resources when oil is too low in price.
Any country should always nationalize oil so they can conserve it so it last longer.
Eventually when world supplies run low, THAT is when you want to still have oil, and sell it for the highest possible price.

Pump too fast? That isn't how it works.. and they don't pump oil in the Middle East. They drill wells all the time and cap most of them depending on pressure, flow rate and quality or ease of refining.. Libya's oil is light and sweet for the most part. They use gas injection to keep pressure up and put Christmas trees over the bore holes NOT rocker pumps.

Reserve management is required and oil reserve measurement is an art .. its an economic measurement not a barrels per borehole measurement.

Yes I am aware that a salt pressure dome does not need a walking beam pumps, but the word "pumping" is still used because is has to be moved, from well to tanks, from tanks to pipelines or trucks, from pipelines or trucks to more tanks, then to ships, etc.

And the point is that there is always an inherent conflict in that companies only want quick profits to make their stock rise, while the country should instead try to delay extraction as long as possible.
All countries should likely nationalize their oil.
When they don't, it is a pretty good indication of corruption, bribes, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...

You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.

He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.

True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.

Absolutely, but short of putting a huge occupation force in place tokeep Gaddafiin power there was NOTHING the US could do.. By the end .. Gaddafi hadn't friend in the world.. not even Mugabe would touch him.

I disagree.
I do not think the rebel force in Benghazi was more than a paper tiger.
And the rebels were NOT actually Libyan.
They were entirely mercenary as well, funded and armed totally by the CIA.
Qaddafi was actually somewhat popular with the real population of Libya.
The proof of that is how screwed up Libya is now.
There now are more ISIS and al Qaeda than anything else.

Do you realize you are bat ass crazy

Care to be more specific in your concerns?
What part in particular do you object to the most?
Do you think Libya is better off now?
It is a devastated war zone with dozens of armed factions.
The actual Libyans had to evacuate.

 

[Rigby5]

... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...

You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.

He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.

True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.

Absolutely, but short of putting a huge occupation force in place tokeep Gaddafiin power there was NOTHING the US could do.. By the end .. Gaddafi hadn't friend in the world.. not even Mugabe would touch him.

I disagree.
I do not think the rebel force in Benghazi was more than a paper tiger.
And the rebels were NOT actually Libyan.
They were entirely mercenary as well, funded and armed totally by the CIA.
Qaddafi was actually somewhat popular with the real population of Libya.
The proof of that is how screwed up Libya is now.
There now are more ISIS and al Qaeda than anything else.

Nope.. Why would you think this was CIA?

There were two attacks hours apart.. and the were Eastern tribes. ISIS didn't move into Derna in any significant numbers until 2013.

How ISIS Spread in Syria and Iraq—and How to Stop It - The ...

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/

...
Oct 29, 2015 · Whiteside estimates that between July 2012 and July 2013, ISIS orchestrated seven major prisons raids, culminating in a spectacular, well-organized breakout …

I disagree.
ISIS is almost all Sunni Iraqis the US had imprisoned.
Not only did the US let them all out at once, but they suddenly had thousands of new Toyota trucks and the latest arms.
If the US had not done this intentionally, then those they would have released would have been monitored and let out in small waves, not all at once.

Nor could ISIS have organized or conducted prison raids without inside help.
They are one of the most easily defended targets possible, because they already have strong walls and security.
Its not like the Iraqi Shiites had anyone else to worry about.
All their forces had to do was to guard a few prisons.
Impossible to believe they could not even do that simple task.

And Qaddafi's forces were never defeated by anyone from the region.
It was entirely US and European air forces that wiped out Qaddafi's troops.
Here is an earlier incident to show how we constantly had to protect the rebels and how Qaddafi could otherwise easily wiped them out any time.

Libya: US, UK and France attack Gaddafi forces

The US, France and the UK fire dozens of missiles at Libya as enforcement of the UN-mandated no-fly zone gets under way.

www.bbc.com

{...
Libya: US, UK and France attack Gaddafi forces
Published20 March 2011


The UK, US and France have attacked Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi's forces in the first action to enforce a UN-mandated no-fly zone.
Pentagon officials say the US and the UK have fired more than 110 missiles, while French planes struck pro-Gaddafi forces attacking rebel-held Benghazi.
Col Gaddafi has vowed retaliation and said he would open arms depots to the people to defend Libya.
Cruise missiles hit air-defence sites in the capital, Tripoli, and Misrata.
Libyan state TV said 48 people had been killed and 150 wounded in the attacks. There was no independent confirmation of the deaths.
A French plane fired the first shots against Libyan government targets at 1645 GMT on Saturday, destroying a number of military vehicles, according to a military spokesman.

...}

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Trump supporters waiting until his last day in office to turn on him.

Not me.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Trump supporters waiting until his last day in office to turn on him.

Not me.

Going down with the ship then.

Good for you.

 

[surada]

... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...

You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.

He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.

True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.

Absolutely, but short of putting a huge occupation force in place tokeep Gaddafiin power there was NOTHING the US could do.. By the end .. Gaddafi hadn't friend in the world.. not even Mugabe would touch him.

I disagree.
I do not think the rebel force in Benghazi was more than a paper tiger.
And the rebels were NOT actually Libyan.
They were entirely mercenary as well, funded and armed totally by the CIA.
Qaddafi was actually somewhat popular with the real population of Libya.
The proof of that is how screwed up Libya is now.
There now are more ISIS and al Qaeda than anything else.

Nope.. Why would you think this was CIA?

There were two attacks hours apart.. and the were Eastern tribes. ISIS didn't move into Derna in any significant numbers until 2013.

How ISIS Spread in Syria and Iraq—and How to Stop It - The ...

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/

...
Oct 29, 2015 · Whiteside estimates that between July 2012 and July 2013, ISIS orchestrated seven major prisons raids, culminating in a spectacular, well-organized breakout …

I disagree.
ISIS is almost all Sunni Iraqis the US had imprisoned.
Not only did the US let them all out at once, but they suddenly had thousands of new Toyota trucks and the latest arms.
If the US had not done this intentionally, then those they would have released would have been monitored and let out in small waves, not all at once.

Nor could ISIS have organized or conducted prison raids without inside help.
They are one of the most easily defended targets possible, because they already have strong walls and security.
Its not like the Iraqi Shiites had anyone else to worry about.
All their forces had to do was to guard a few prisons.
Impossible to believe they could not even do that simple task.

And Qaddafi's forces were never defeated by anyone from the region.
It was entirely US and European air forces that wiped out Qaddafi's troops.
Here is an earlier incident to show how we constantly had to protect the rebels and how Qaddafi could otherwise easily wiped them out any time.

Libya: US, UK and France attack Gaddafi forces

The US, France and the UK fire dozens of missiles at Libya as enforcement of the UN-mandated no-fly zone gets under way.

www.bbc.com

{...
Libya: US, UK and France attack Gaddafi forces
Published20 March 2011


The UK, US and France have attacked Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi's forces in the first action to enforce a UN-mandated no-fly zone.
Pentagon officials say the US and the UK have fired more than 110 missiles, while French planes struck pro-Gaddafi forces attacking rebel-held Benghazi.
Col Gaddafi has vowed retaliation and said he would open arms depots to the people to defend Libya.
Cruise missiles hit air-defence sites in the capital, Tripoli, and Misrata.
Libyan state TV said 48 people had been killed and 150 wounded in the attacks. There was no independent confirmation of the deaths.
A French plane fired the first shots against Libyan government targets at 1645 GMT on Saturday, destroying a number of military vehicles, according to a military spokesman.

...}

ISIS is Sunni , but all Iraqi Sunnis were not ISIS.. Maliki was so abusive towards the Sunni population that some civilians ( not in prison) did in fact join ISIS.

Before the US ever got involved with NATO in Libya, Libyan refugees were flooding into Italy or drowning in the Med trying to get there. All the embassies were closed and evacuated.. all the oil companies including the Chinese railroad workers had pulled out. Gaddafi promised blood would run in the streets.

 

[ElmerMudd]

... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...

You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.

He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.

True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.

Absolutely, but short of putting a huge occupation force in place tokeep Gaddafiin power there was NOTHING the US could do.. By the end .. Gaddafi hadn't friend in the world.. not even Mugabe would touch him.

I disagree.
I do not think the rebel force in Benghazi was more than a paper tiger.
And the rebels were NOT actually Libyan.
They were entirely mercenary as well, funded and armed totally by the CIA.
Qaddafi was actually somewhat popular with the real population of Libya.
The proof of that is how screwed up Libya is now.
There now are more ISIS and al Qaeda than anything else.

Do you realize you are bat ass crazy

Care to be more specific in your concerns?
What part in particular do you object to the most?
Do you think Libya is better off now?
It is a devastated war zone with dozens of armed factions.
The actual Libyans had to evacuate.

You are talking conspiracy theory without one iota of proof. Conjecture is not truth.
"The proof of that is how screwed up Libya is now" - This is not even close to proof.
What about Iraq. What about Afghanistan. What about Yemen.
I find people like you are delusional. You seem to be paranoid. You focus, too much of your life, on complete fantasies. Ideas that may have less than 1% chance to be true.
I feel you do this because you cannot deal with the real world so you spend your life in a fantasy. It is like a child playing army.