If guns are so bad, then Liberal elites and Democrats should give them up

[Rigby5]

I don't think you're getting it.

There are two scenarios here.
Everyone can get guns, too many guns in society, people need guns to protect themselves. Including Liberals.
Or, everyone can't get guns, not many guns in society, people don't need guns to protect themselves, not Liberals or Conservatives.

But then you know this already, right?

Why is the first scenario, "everyone can get guns", too many guns?
Clearly in a democratic republic, if you do not want a dictatorship or police state, then pretty much everyone has to be armed.
There is no other way to do it.
If people start being lazy and want to just hire cops and soldiers to be armed instead, then we should stop pretending to be a democratic republic, because then we are not. When we have half a million imprisoned from the illegal War on Drugs, asset forfeiture, mandatory sentences, illegal foreign wars, etc., it is NOT a democratic republic,

The second scenario, "everyone can't get guns", is exactly how you created a dictatorship or police state.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why is the first scenario, "everyone can get guns", too many guns?
Clearly in a democratic republic, if you do not want a dictatorship or police state, then pretty much everyone has to be armed.
There is no other way to do it.
If people start being lazy and want to just hire cops and soldiers to be armed instead, then we should stop pretending to be a democratic republic, because then we are not. When we have half a million imprisoned from the illegal War on Drugs, asset forfeiture, mandatory sentences, illegal foreign wars, etc., it is NOT a democratic republic,

The second scenario, "everyone can't get guns", is exactly how you created a dictatorship or police state.

Problem is all the evidence in the world PROVES YOU WRONG.

The UK doesn't have many guns, and isn't a dictatorship.

 

[Rigby5]

Problem is all the evidence in the world PROVES YOU WRONG.

The UK doesn't have many guns, and isn't a dictatorship.

First of all, the UK has always been a dictatorship.
Almost all the land in the UK is decreed by royal charter.
While it is a fairly benevolent dictatorship now, that can change at any time.
And you will see the UK involved in colonial imperialism even more than the US, like they did not finally give up India until the 1940s, they were in Vietnam, Desert Storm, the invasion of Iraq, etc.
But the main reason why the US is being targeted for dictatorship with gun control the most, is because it is the most wealthy.
There is not much point in trying to take over the UK because their wealth passed along time ago, and what is left is already in the hands of the wealthy elite.

 

[LeftofLeft]

I don't think you're getting it.

There are two scenarios here.
Everyone can get guns, too many guns in society, people need guns to protect themselves. Including Liberals.
Or, everyone can't get guns, not many guns in society, people don't need guns to protect themselves, not Liberals or Conservatives.

But then you know this already, right?

There is enough will in society to commit harm and violence. Even the cultures where there aren’t many guns available, guns are ultimate and optimal for protection.

 

[Captain Caveman]

The Democrats and Liberal elites who are part of the spectrum to ban guns should give up armed protection. If they are going to challenge someone’s right to protect themselves individually or by proxy with firearms, then they should give up that privilege as well.

Giving up guns is not part of the gun problem. Why are people obsessed about "all guns v no guns"??

It's about not having guns in public, it's banning certain gun and rifle features, it's about securely locking them away in a gun cabinet bolted to the wall, it's about thorough background checks with thorough logging of serial numbers and transfers. It's about having the culture attitude that guns are a serious no in public, you use them only at home (vermin control, target practice), at a gun range, or at a clay pigeon shoot etc.. And you must have permission on where the shot/bullet lands, it must be within your own property or on the property where you were given permission.

Get any of it wrong, you lose your guns, pay a heavy fine and possibly jailed. Those who wish to keep and use guns, strictly follow the law.

I know, you have the defence fallacy, everyone is trying to murder you all with machetes, and there's a billion criminals with guns bla bla bla, but you just have to park that mindless crap to one side and change the gun culture over the decades.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Giving up guns is not part of the gun problem. Why are people obsessed about "all guns v no guns"??

It's about not having guns in public, it's banning certain gun and rifle features, it's about securely locking them away in a gun cabinet bolted to the wall, it's about thorough background checks with thorough logging of serial numbers and transfers. It's about having the culture attitude that guns are a serious no in public, you use them only at home (vermin control, target practice), at a gun range, or at a clay pigeon shoot etc.. And you must have permission on where the shot/bullet lands, it must be within your own property or on the property where you were given permission.

Get any of it wrong, you lose your guns, pay a heavy fine and possibly jailed. Those who wish to keep and use guns, strictly follow the law.

I know, you have the defence fallacy, everyone is trying to murder you all with machetes, and there's a billion criminals with guns bla bla bla, but you just have to park that mindless crap to one side and change the gun culture over the decades.

If elites ultimately turn to armed protection, is it really a a “defence fallacy”? Gun culture or no gun culture.

 

[Captain Caveman]

If elites ultimately turn to armed protection, is it really a a “defence fallacy”? Gun culture or no gun culture.

Every country has a gun culture, just that many choose a safe orientation to guns within their societies.

 

[frigidweirdo]

First of all, the UK has always been a dictatorship.
Almost all the land in the UK is decreed by royal charter.
While it is a fairly benevolent dictatorship now, that can change at any time.
And you will see the UK involved in colonial imperialism even more than the US, like they did not finally give up India until the 1940s, they were in Vietnam, Desert Storm, the invasion of Iraq, etc.
But the main reason why the US is being targeted for dictatorship with gun control the most, is because it is the most wealthy.
There is not much point in trying to take over the UK because their wealth passed along time ago, and what is left is already in the hands of the wealthy elite.

Sigh.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is enough will in society to commit harm and violence. Even the cultures where there aren’t many guns available, guns are ultimate and optimal for protection.

There's also the best weapon for attack.

And in the US it appears your more likely to die with a gun in your hand, than in the UK without a gun.

Look at the number of ARMED police killed by guns every year in the US.