CDZ I want to present this in this forum hopefully to get some real dialogue

[Gdjjr]

I don't actually see a question or proposition to discuss here. Most of your responders seem to think you want to talk about Rush Limbaugh and the possibility of inflated COVID-19 fatality numbers, but you state up front that are using that article as an example and make note repeatedly of intellectual honesty, but that's more than a little vague. You haven't come back yet in response to any of the several folks who've taken up your invitation, so, could you possibly clarify precisely what it is you'd like to debate?

Maybe you should learn to read- second line in the very first post

I want to talk about intellectual honesty.

How vague is that! MOST responders are not very bright.

Copy and paste from first post

I'm using that article as an example because I use the term intellectual honesty a lot- Rush, is a great example as well as our own beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic- I've said for years Rush is very intelligent, but he is hyper-partisan. I've told our very own, beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic, the same thing- I give them their just due for their intelligence, (and I'll add now, their tenacity as there is a lot to be said for that trait) but I can't abide their hyper-partisan intellect. Both are intelligent enough to know better and the evidence is overwhelming that there is very little difference in the Party elite outside their rhetoric, which is used as a tool to keep citizens divided. Any half wit can see there is no difference. Hitting a brick wall at 100 or at 90 still is hitting a brick wall. The only (maybe) difference is the rate of descent to the same destination- and that rate of descent is accelerating almost daily.

In the article it says what it says- I'm not going to give away the punch line- you have to read it and make your own determination.

example: a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule

 

[NotfooledbyW]

If anyone can follow with the 0P means please advise

 

[Roudy]

I don't easily abide monologues-

I want to talk about intellectual honesty. I posted this in another thread

Rush Limbaugh Floats Theory That Coronavirus Deaths Are Being Inflated to Push an Agenda

Conservative talk-radio host and recent Presidential Medal of Freedom honoree Rush Limbaugh on Thursday floated the theory that deaths from coronavirus have been inflated so that governments could further “the policies they have put in place.”Citing the latest record-breaking unemployment claims...

www.yahoo.com

I'm using that article as an example because I use the term intellectual honesty a lot- Rush, is a great example as well as our own beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic- I've said for years Rush is very intelligent, but he is hyper-partisan. I've told our very own, beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic, the same thing- I give them their just due for their intelligence, (and I'll add now, their tenacity as there is a lot to be said for that trait) but I can't abide their hyper-partisan intellect. Both are intelligent enough to know better and the evidence is overwhelming that there is very little difference in the Party elite outside their rhetoric, which is used as a tool to keep citizens divided. Any half wit can see there is no difference. Hitting a brick wall at 100 or at 90 still is hitting a brick wall. The only (maybe) difference is the rate of descent to the same destination- and that rate of descent is accelerating almost daily.

In the article it says what it says- I'm not going to give away the punch line- you have to read it and make your own determination.

I wonder what Leftists infected with Trump Covid Derangement Syndrome have against Trump and others pursuing all avenues of treatment for the Chinese virus? They're literally wishing treatments to fail and people to die just so they cause attain the Whitehouse this November. They are willing even attack a fellow Black Democrat woman just because Trump's suggested and approved a treatment that saved her life. I guess it isn't racist or sexist when THEY viciously attack a Black woman. These animals belong in a asylum!

Michigan Democrat facing censure for 'thank you' to Trump should join GOP, president says

President Trump on Thursday night shared some advice for Michigan state Rep. Karen Whitsett, the Democrat who recently survived a bout with coronavirus – only to now face possible censure by some fellow Democrats.

www.foxnews.com

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I wonder what Leftists infected with Trump Covid Derangement Syndrome have against Trump and others pursuing all avenues of treatment for the Chinese virus?

You need to learn that outside of membership in the Trump Cult at least 60 percent of thinking adults aren’t so much against Trump as they are in favor of facts truth honesty and have the utmost respect for science.

And since Trump rejects all that there is no choice other than rejecting Trump and his devoted admirers.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

They are willing even attack a fellow Black Democrat woman just because Trump's suggested and approved a treatment that saved her life.

She was not a participant in a clinical trial so there is no medical science to verify that she was on the verge of death from C19 infection.

more than 2:1 patients in VA hospitals survived without hydroxychloroquine.

About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone.​

Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.​

Researchers did not track side effects, but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.​

So what does one woman who may not have been terminally ill saying the drug saved her life mean? It means nothing - scientifically.

That you don’t understand that is sad, but Trump not understanding that whole pushing an untested drug is horrific,

 

[NotfooledbyW]

. They're literally wishing treatments to fail and people to die just so they cause attain the Whitehouse this November.

That can’t be true since COVID19 is disproportionately killing non-white voters.

And older Americans have been dumping their support for Trump since about after two weeks of the nightly 90 minute Trump Clown Show began.

BIDEN HAS BEEN ”also surging among older voters, which could be especially troubling for Trump; they’re a valuable group because they turn out to vote reliably.“ Polls show Biden leading Trump in most battleground states​

Why wouid Democrats want to let Trump and Republicans to kill off likely Democrat voters?

 

[Roudy]

I wonder what Leftists infected with Trump Covid Derangement Syndrome have against Trump and others pursuing all avenues of treatment for the Chinese virus?

You need to learn that outside of membership in the Trump Cult at least 60 percent of thinking adults aren’t so much against Trump as they are in favor of facts truth honesty and have the utmost respect for science.

And since Trump rejects all that there is no choice other than rejecting Trump and his devoted admirers.

Rrrrright. 'Cause the idiots on the Left and their jackbooted anti American commie followers like BLM and Antifa terrorist fascists and their propagandists in the media, are just so much holier than thou. Remember, we were told by them for three years 24/7 non-stop that Trump colluded and was a "secret Russian asset". What happened to that?

We are essentially witnessing the collapse of the Left, the final nail in the coffin will be when Trump wins in a landslide, and regains the House.

 

[Roudy]

. They're literally wishing treatments to fail and people to die just so they cause attain the Whitehouse this November.

That can’t be true since COVID19 is disproportionately killing non-white voters.

And older Americans have been dumping their support for Trump since about after two weeks of the nightly 90 minute Trump Clown Show began.

​

​

BIDEN HAS BEEN ”also surging among older voters, which could be especially troubling for Trump; they’re a valuable group because they turn out to vote reliably.“ Polls show Biden leading Trump in most battleground states​

Why wouid Democrats want to let Trump and Republicans to kill off likely Democrat voters?

Oh ya, the Left sees racism everywhere. Even in a virus that kills indiscriminately all over the world, including white Italians, Spaniards, and Brits. The ignorance and brainwashing is amazing

 

[Roudy]

They are willing even attack a fellow Black Democrat woman just because Trump's suggested and approved a treatment that saved her life.

She was not a participant in a clinical trial so there is no medical science to verify that she was on the verge of death from C19 infection.

more than 2:1 patients in VA hospitals survived without hydroxychloroquine.

About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone.​

Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.​

Researchers did not track side effects, but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.​

So what does one woman who may not have been terminally ill saying the drug saved her life mean? It means nothing - scientifically.

That you don’t understand that is sad, but Trump not understanding that whole pushing an untested drug is horrific,

Oh okay, but she does deserve to be ostracized and sanctioned by the Left because she dared thank Trump for promting a drug that SHE, the person who was infected, thought cured her. But we know that the Demcrats are such "tolerant" people, right?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

We are essentially witnessing the collapse of the Left, the final nail in the coffin will be when Trump wins in a landslide, and regains the House.

Why did Trump lose the House during
the greatest American economy ever, that only Trump could create for us?

Why did that Republican Judge get his ass kicked in the Wisconsin election by the Democrat, after Trump endorsed him?


and then there is this:

The economy will shrink at an annualized rate of 39.6 percent in the second quarter, according to the latest projections from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO), its first to take into account the effects of the coronavirus pandemic.​

"The economy will experience a sharp contraction in the second quarter of 2020 stemming from factors related to the pandemic, including the social distancing measures put in place to contain it," CBO Director Phillip Swagel wrote.​

The CBO projects that things will rebound somewhat in the third quarter, with 23.5 percent annualized growth, followed by a projection of 10.5 percent growth in the final quarter of the year.​

​

Trump pretty much wiped out the longest period of economic expansion that Obama started in 2009. It only took Trump
three years. Trump never got the GDP higher than Obama did and now he’ll be going for re-election at -10% GDP.

It’s not looking good for the huckster.

 

[Roudy]

We are essentially witnessing the collapse of the Left, the final nail in the coffin will be when Trump wins in a landslide, and regains the House.

Why did Trump lose the House during
the greatest American economy ever, that only Trump could create for us?

Why did that Republican Judge get his ass kicked in the Wisconsin election by the Democrat, after Trump endorsed him?


and then there is this:

The economy will shrink at an annualized rate of 39.6 percent in the second quarter, according to the latest projections from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO), its first to take into account the effects of the coronavirus pandemic.​

"The economy will experience a sharp contraction in the second quarter of 2020 stemming from factors related to the pandemic, including the social distancing measures put in place to contain it," CBO Director Phillip Swagel wrote.​

The CBO projects that things will rebound somewhat in the third quarter, with 23.5 percent annualized growth, followed by a projection of 10.5 percent growth in the final quarter of the year.​

​

Trump pretty much wiped out the longest period of economic expansion that Obama started in 2009. It only took Trump
three years. Trump never got the GDP higher than Obama did and now he’ll be going for re-election at -10% GDP.

It’s not looking good for the huckster.

Midterms the side that isn't in the Whitehouse usually wins the House and Senate. Why did the Republicans gain a Supermajority in the House during the Obama years not seen since WWII? Why did the Republican hold on to the Senate and even gain seats during the midterms. Why did Hillary lose if Obama was such a successful president

 

[NotfooledbyW]

post 19#373.

The numbers for that red line are PURE SHIT....

Here are more charts that confirm the “numbers” for NYC in the chart being discussed.

U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported, C.D.C. Data Suggests (Published 2020)

In seven hard-hit states, total deaths are nearly 50 percent higher than normal, according to new C.D.C. statistics, suggesting that the virus has killed far more people than the number in official counts.

www.nytimes.com

Something out of the ordinary started killing people in NYC in March and April this year that just happened to coincide with a deadly viral pandemic that just so happens to be killing people all around the world in similar ways.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Trump did screw up there.. That 2.2 million people was one of those early FAULTY estimates.. But nonetheless it was the BEST guess of scientists QUALIFIED to guess.. THey just blew it.. So which is worse? An entire country going into bunker mode, crashing the whole economy, and panicking scared hurting people EVEN MORE than Covid --- because of BAD scientific guessing?? Or comparing Covid to other flus?

That was your argument in April. Are you still stuck on it?

As we approach 200,000 U.S. COVID deaths And 14 million COVID related unemployed in ten MONTHS of TRUMP leadership, and despite a half assed crashed economy - you must realize now, that Trump did not screw up by citing the do-nothing 2.2 million deaths model. And that 2.2 million deaths model was not at all an early FAULTY estimate.

Trump’s error was letting thinking like yours (An entire country going into bunker mode, crashing the whole economy, and panicking scared hurting people EVEN MORE than Covid) get in the way of a solid scientific and safe pandemic response until a vaccine is available.

It is now quite clear that “comparing Covid to other flus” In order to downplay the pandemic threat in order to keep the stock market and economy running at optimum value to help Trump be elected to a second term, was the wrong policy for health and economic reasons. It was the same bad judgement that we got from the anti-mask mob.

Three thousand six hundred Americans died during the Republican convention last week where Republicans barely mentioned the pandemic at all.

We are six million cases and still at 1000 deaths a week after TRUMP said in February that we had 15 cases and it would soon to be zero because he had done such a good job stopping

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I don't easily abide monologues-

I want to talk about intellectual honesty. I posted this in another thread

Rush Limbaugh Floats Theory That Coronavirus Deaths Are Being Inflated to Push an Agenda

Conservative talk-radio host and recent Presidential Medal of Freedom honoree Rush Limbaugh on Thursday floated the theory that deaths from coronavirus have been inflated so that governments could further “the policies they have put in place.”Citing the latest record-breaking unemployment claims...

www.yahoo.com

I'm using that article as an example because I use the term intellectual honesty a lot- Rush, is a great example as well as our own beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic- I've said for years Rush is very intelligent, but he is hyper-partisan. I've told our very own, beloved, I'm sure, PoliticalChic, the same thing- I give them their just due for their intelligence, (and I'll add now, their tenacity as there is a lot to be said for that trait) but I can't abide their hyper-partisan intellect. Both are intelligent enough to know better and the evidence is overwhelming that there is very little difference in the Party elite outside their rhetoric, which is used as a tool to keep citizens divided. Any half wit can see there is no difference. Hitting a brick wall at 100 or at 90 still is hitting a brick wall. The only (maybe) difference is the rate of descent to the same destination- and that rate of descent is accelerating almost daily.

In the article it says what it says- I'm not going to give away the punch line- you have to read it and make your own determination.

The CDC agreed with Rush! 60% of the "Covid deaths" were people 75+ years old, many of who had at least one underlying condition. The CDC could only identify 6% of all "Covid death" attributive solely to the Obama funded Wuhan Flu.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The CDC agreed with Rush!

show us where the CDC agrees with Rush.....That Coronavirus Deaths Are Being Inflated to Push an Agenda.

Methinks you are pushing another right wing lie!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The CDC agreed with Rush!

show us where the CDC agrees with Rush.....That Coronavirus Deaths Are Being Inflated to Push an Agenda.

Methinks you are pushing another right wing lie!

The CDC revised their numbers to show only 6% of the 165,000 were solely due to Covid.

The agenda is that people still must wear these stupid fucking masks and we're still shut down

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The CDC revised their numbers to show only 6% of the 165,000 were solely due to Covid.

where and when did the CDC revise their numbers? Where did the CDC admit to inflating the numbers to push an agenda as you and Rush Limbaugh claim?

This from the The OP citing numbers that Rush Used to open

After referencing recent White House modeling projecting between 100,000 and 240,000 U.S. deaths if the country adheres to current social-distancing guidelines, the right-wing talker then cited an article written by a pathologist to bolster the claim that governments could be fudging their numbers.​

come clean you just made that up.

​

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The CDC revised their numbers to show only 6% of the 165,000 were solely due to Covid

Sorry, you didn’t just make this all up. You take your conspiracy theories from "Mel Q," a QAnon disciple.

The nation's leading infectious diseases expert and White House coronavirus task force adviser Anthony Fauci pushed back against claims in a post retweeted by President Trump that minimized the coronavirus death toll in the U.S.​

Trump on Sunday retweeted a post from a user named "Mel Q," who is also a believer of the QAnon conspiracy theory, falsely claiming only about 9,000 people had "actually" died from the coronavirus.​

The tweet, which has since been deleted by Twitter, cited a post on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website saying that "for 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned." The post said the remaining 94 percent had other serious illnesses.​

Fauci pushes back against minimizing of coronavirus death toll

President Trump on Sunday retweeted a post questioning the COVID-19 death toll.

www.google.com

​

 

[esalla]

Trump did screw up there.. That 2.2 million people was one of those early FAULTY estimates.. But nonetheless it was the BEST guess of scientists QUALIFIED to guess.. THey just blew it.. So which is worse? An entire country going into bunker mode, crashing the whole economy, and panicking scared hurting people EVEN MORE than Covid --- because of BAD scientific guessing?? Or comparing Covid to other flus?

That was your argument in April. Are you still stuck on it?

As we approach 200,000 U.S. COVID deaths And 14 million COVID related unemployed in ten MONTHS of TRUMP leadership, and despite a half assed crashed economy - you must realize now, that Trump did not screw up by citing the do-nothing 2.2 million deaths model. And that 2.2 million deaths model was not at all an early FAULTY estimate.

Trump’s error was letting thinking like yours (An entire country going into bunker mode, crashing the whole economy, and panicking scared hurting people EVEN MORE than Covid) get in the way of a solid scientific and safe pandemic response until a vaccine is available.

It is now quite clear that “comparing Covid to other flus” In order to downplay the pandemic threat in order to keep the stock market and economy running at optimum value to help Trump be elected to a second term, was the wrong policy for health and economic reasons. It was the same bad judgement that we got from the anti-mask mob.

Three thousand six hundred Americans died during the Republican convention last week where Republicans barely mentioned the pandemic at all.

We are six million cases and still at 1000 deaths a week after TRUMP said in February that we had 15 cases and it would soon to be zero because he had done such a good job stopping

People were shot in the head and their death was counted as a covid death. I had covid, it is not dangerous.

But you wear your mask, I deserve a laugh

 

[NotfooledbyW]

People were shot in the head and their death was counted as a covid death.

where, when, and by whom?

if you don’t have that info - you do know what that makes you?