Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) Thread

[Montrovant]

The Long, Sad Saga of Hydroxychloroquine

The Long, Sad Saga of Hydroxychloroquine | National Review

The same medical community which is telling us that HCQ is dangerous, may soon be telling us that a vaccine developed in record time is completely safe.

www.nationalreview.com

21 Aug 2020~~ By Jim Talent
I want to make sure NR readers don’t miss this essay from Norman Doidge. It’s the best thing I’ve read on hydroxychloroquine. But beware: The piece is long and fascinating. Once you start reading, you won’t be able to stop, and it takes a good half hour to finish.

Doidge tells the tale of hydroxychloroquine, or HCQ as he calls it, as if the drug were a character in a story. His main point is that HCQ hasn’t received fair treatment in many quarters, including, unfortunately, some of the health experts advising the government of the United States. The main reasons are the intrusion of politics into medicine, the pitfalls and limitations of big data in medical science, and the over-reliance of many experts on random controlled testing to the exclusion of other kinds of evidence.

Doidge manages to make even a discussion of research methodology interesting. Here is a sample:

We now have studies that show one of the weaknesses of RCTs (random controlled testing) is that in the quest to eliminate confounding factors, they end up, in a majority of cases, excluding patients who are typical of those in the population. The RCT evangelist focuses only on the RCT strengths, and forgets their weaknesses. A typical RCT describes several data points about hundreds of patients. It can be helpful in determining what treatment might work for most people in a large population. A typical case history describes perhaps hundreds of data points about a single patient. Its focus might be on what treatment might work best for this patient. Sometimes we need all that information about a patient, to choose a proper treatment, because individual patients differ, often in decisive ways.

Patients are not “several data points.” There are multiple good reasons that the medical curriculum and major journals and texts publish RCTs, observational studies, case histories, and other designs, and why most physicians with experience will use what I would call the “all-available-evidence” approach and take, as appropriate, what they can learn from different kinds of studies, and of course everything they know about their own patient in front of them, to decide on a treatment. That is what personalized medicine is about. RCT fundamentalists — who believe only in their randomized data and essentially argue for throwing away everything else — pose as people simply expressing the conventional view: All you need is one tool. But in practice, they are way outside it. When the teacher tells you to quit paying so much attention to the fullness of your experience, pay more attention to why he might be saying so.
[Snip]
This outstanding article reinforced an opinion I had already reached. I think HCQ has therapeutic benefits in treating COVID-19; I’m confident that, used with proper medical oversight, it’s harmless.

View attachment 378200

Of all the people who have died, I am certain some of these poor souls was on Plaqunil....ie the Trump miracle Hydro drug.....I take it for Lupus, for RA, as I'm certain a lot of these elderly people who died could have been on...this drug does not save you from the virus.

So have you been out and exposed yourself knowingly or unknowingly to Chinese Covid-19? Has anyone you have had contact with contracted the virus?
How do you know you haven't been protected by the prophylactic use of HCQ/Plaquenil?

What in the world are you talking about Dude?

Hospitals uses HCQ and combination to treat Covid 19 heavily in all hospitals. Triggered is 100% accurate. Hospitals deaths of Covid 19 was treated with HCQ but it failed in some cases. Pay attention to scientist and experts. Do not listen to an unknown worthless media or an ignorant leader.

World leaders like President Nayib Bukele of the Tremendous Republic of El Salvador, report that they take HCQ for prevention. So far, Señor Bukele is still alive and well , proving the efficacy of the medicine.

That doesn't prove its efficacy at all...

 

[Doc7505]

~~~~~~

HCQ for COVID-19: real-time analysis of all 267 studies

HCQ for COVID-19: real-time analysis of all 267 studies

c19study.com

I think you just buried charwin95.....

Indeed,he sure did,he is the one that needs to listens to scientists and doctors,grampa nailed it saying forty out of forty that were treated recovered,it works for EVERYONE,one doctor is on record that he treated several dozens of patients and ALL recovered,you just got to go to bitchute and you’ll find those videos of doctors saying that.

You'll also find that Marc K. Siegel is an American physician, Associate Professor of Medicine at the NYU Langone Medical Center

Dr. Marc Siegel opens up about his father, 96, and his use of hydroxychloroquine

Dr. Marc Siegel, a Fox News medical contributor, told “Tucker Carlson Tonight” on Tuesday that his 96-year-old father was recently weak and struggling to breathe but recovered after he was administered the anti-malaria drug and antibiotics.

www.foxnews.com

 

[badger2]

Tiggered59 is uneducated about hcq. See snake meat thread.

 

[charwin95]

The Long, Sad Saga of Hydroxychloroquine

The Long, Sad Saga of Hydroxychloroquine | National Review

The same medical community which is telling us that HCQ is dangerous, may soon be telling us that a vaccine developed in record time is completely safe.

www.nationalreview.com

21 Aug 2020~~ By Jim Talent
I want to make sure NR readers don’t miss this essay from Norman Doidge. It’s the best thing I’ve read on hydroxychloroquine. But beware: The piece is long and fascinating. Once you start reading, you won’t be able to stop, and it takes a good half hour to finish.

Doidge tells the tale of hydroxychloroquine, or HCQ as he calls it, as if the drug were a character in a story. His main point is that HCQ hasn’t received fair treatment in many quarters, including, unfortunately, some of the health experts advising the government of the United States. The main reasons are the intrusion of politics into medicine, the pitfalls and limitations of big data in medical science, and the over-reliance of many experts on random controlled testing to the exclusion of other kinds of evidence.

Doidge manages to make even a discussion of research methodology interesting. Here is a sample:

We now have studies that show one of the weaknesses of RCTs (random controlled testing) is that in the quest to eliminate confounding factors, they end up, in a majority of cases, excluding patients who are typical of those in the population. The RCT evangelist focuses only on the RCT strengths, and forgets their weaknesses. A typical RCT describes several data points about hundreds of patients. It can be helpful in determining what treatment might work for most people in a large population. A typical case history describes perhaps hundreds of data points about a single patient. Its focus might be on what treatment might work best for this patient. Sometimes we need all that information about a patient, to choose a proper treatment, because individual patients differ, often in decisive ways.

Patients are not “several data points.” There are multiple good reasons that the medical curriculum and major journals and texts publish RCTs, observational studies, case histories, and other designs, and why most physicians with experience will use what I would call the “all-available-evidence” approach and take, as appropriate, what they can learn from different kinds of studies, and of course everything they know about their own patient in front of them, to decide on a treatment. That is what personalized medicine is about. RCT fundamentalists — who believe only in their randomized data and essentially argue for throwing away everything else — pose as people simply expressing the conventional view: All you need is one tool. But in practice, they are way outside it. When the teacher tells you to quit paying so much attention to the fullness of your experience, pay more attention to why he might be saying so.
[Snip]
This outstanding article reinforced an opinion I had already reached. I think HCQ has therapeutic benefits in treating COVID-19; I’m confident that, used with proper medical oversight, it’s harmless.

View attachment 378200

Of all the people who have died, I am certain some of these poor souls was on Plaqunil....ie the Trump miracle Hydro drug.....I take it for Lupus, for RA, as I'm certain a lot of these elderly people who died could have been on...this drug does not save you from the virus.

So have you been out and exposed yourself knowingly or unknowingly to Chinese Covid-19? Has anyone you have had contact with contracted the virus?
How do you know you haven't been protected by the prophylactic use of HCQ/Plaquenil?

What in the world are you talking about Dude?

Hospitals uses HCQ and combination to treat Covid 19 heavily in all hospitals. Triggered is 100% accurate. Hospitals deaths of Covid 19 was treated with HCQ but it failed in some cases. Pay attention to scientist and experts. Do not listen to an unknown worthless media or an ignorant leader.

World leaders like President Nayib Bukele of the Tremendous Republic of El Salvador, report that they take HCQ for prevention. So far, Señor Bukele is still alive and well , proving the efficacy of the medicine.

Any link there bro?

 

[charwin95]

Hydroxychloroquine Follies
How a corrupt elite disregards Americans' health for political and financial advantage.

Hydroxychloroquine Follies | Frontpage Mag

Andrew Wilkow, a host on Sirius XM's “Patriot” channel, routinely makes a perceptive observation about the conflict between President Donald Trump and the

www.frontpagemag.com

28 Aug 2020 ~~ By Joseph Hippolito

Andrew Wilcow, a host on Sirius XM's “Patriot” channel, routinely makes a perceptive observation about the conflict between President Donald Trump and the Democratic Party.
Trump could cure cancer, Wilcow said, and the Democrats would defend the rights of tumors.
Wilkow's observation is not so absurd when applied to the Covid-19 pandemic.
A coalition of "progressives," the Democratic Party, government bureaucrats and media refuses to promote or make an effective, inexpensive treatment available. Why? So they can politically exploit the pandemic for as long as possible and get the Presidential ticket of former Vice President Joe Biden and California Sen. Kamala Harris elected.
New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman inadvertently revealed that strategy when CNN's Wolf Blitzer interviewed him Aug. 3. Blitzer began by expressing hopelessness about the pandemic.
"I mean, it's a sad situation what's going on right now, and I don't see any end in sight," Blitzer said. "Hopefully there will be a therapeutic that comes out that can prevent people from getting really sick and dying. Hopefully, there will be a vaccine at some point that will ease this. But right now, it doesn't seem to have any end in sight. Do you see an end in sight right now?"
Friedman issued a surprising response.
"Oh, I do see an end in sight," Friedman said. "It's in November, Wolf. And let me be very clear about this. Wolf, I will walk, I will crawl, I will slither, I will bike, I will hike, but I will be going to the polls to vote for Joe Biden. Because until and unless we replace this president and this administration, we're going to be having this same conversation every day, all right?"
Friedman continued:

"That is what this is about. This is about power. It's about removing this man who has no business being president, who is incapable of navigating us out of this crisis. And there is only one thing to do, and that is vote for Joe Biden."​

As FrontPage Magazine exposed in "Leftist Masquerade" and "Socialist Distancing," the Democrats promote their agenda by ignoring scientific studies that warn against continuous mask-wearing and social distancing. So which effective, inexpensive treatment for Covid-19 is being suppressed?
Hydroxychloroquine, which the Food and Drug Administration approved in 1955. As a result, doctors can prescribe hydroxychloroquine at their discretion. The FDA allows doctors to so to discover new remedies for new conditions.
[Snip]

In his farewell address before leaving the White House -- the same one in which he warned against the "military-industrial complex" -- President Dwight Eisenhower also warned against the budding relationship between government and science:

"...research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government. ... the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity.​

"The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite."​

Include the complicity of reporters, social media and left-wing activists, and you have our current conundrum. Only not just public policy is held captive. So are Americans' very lives.
The Covid-19 pandemic makes Eisenhower's admonitions prophetic.



Comment:
I believe the corrupt politicization for something as forthright as hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) will be exposed by the Trump administration after the second Trump term. This casting the Progressive Marxist Socialist/DSA Democrats for the part they've played through our nation’s history: The enemies of the Republic.
During this last election cycle, Dems have sunk as lower than anytime before in their history. They've become the Trojan Horse of Communism.
It is highly frustrating to see how the FDA and other regulatory organizations can and are used to politically block real public healthcare solutions, when they are supposed to be counter to the Deep State establishment and political interests.
One wonders if a cure for cancer was discovered if the vast embedded political interests would block it as they have supposedly done with the treatment of Chinese Covid-19.
Countries like the UK, Turkey, France, Brazil, India and others have begun to use the HCQ Cocktail extensively and saved thousands of patients from death.
You go to war with what you've got at the time, if you are able to develop better bullets along the way then by all means use them. But in the meantime you use what you've got...
HCQ is proven a safe drug and the combination with Zinc and Erythromycin has proven effective. It should be used to treat patients until something better or more effective.

From Frontpage? Is that supposed to be credible? A 100% extreme bias, poor sourcing, conspiracies BULLSHIT.

Several HCQ trials have negative results by well known studies.

What in the world are you talking about Dude? They use HCQ and other combinations in hospitals today and around the world because it’s cheap to treat Covid 19. But it’s not really that effective that is why deaths are still climbing up.

PAY ATTENTION..... This ignorant president is promoting HCQ as a Preventative Maintenance . That’s the difference. Not a single hospitals or health agencies or studies promoting stupidity HCQ as PM.

~~~~~~
Just as credible as any of your Leftist propaganda outlets... If you can believe the CNN, NY Slimes, WAPO, DailyKos etc... Frontpage Magazine is more than credible....
I find it quite revealing of you to attack the source rather than to make a cogent argument against the treatment.

Coming from an unknown bias media? UNKNOWN. That is hilarious. Are those supposed to be credible? Obviously you believe it.

 

[charwin95]

Hospitals uses HCQ and combination to treat Covid 19 heavily in all hospitals. Triggered is 100% accurate. Hospitals deaths of Covid 19 was treated with HCQ but it failed in some cases. Pay attention to scientist and experts. Do not listen to an unknown worthless media or an ignorant leader.

"some cases?" How many? How many were successful? Let's see the stats. Also lets see the raw data from which you derived the stats and the method of data collection.

Your god and my god are the FDA, NIH, CDC when it comes to medications and infections. Those are the data I relied on. Not you not not a stupid ignorant president or any unknown worthless bias media.

 

[charwin95]

Hospitals uses HCQ and combination to treat Covid 19 heavily in all hospitals. Triggered is 100% accurate. Hospitals deaths of Covid 19 was treated with HCQ but it failed in some cases. Pay attention to scientist and experts. Do not listen to an unknown worthless media or an ignorant leader.

"some cases?" How many? How many were successful? Let's see the stats.

~~~~~~

HCQ for COVID-19: real-time analysis of all 267 studies

HCQ for COVID-19: real-time analysis of all 267 studies

c19study.com

Again coming from an unknown media supposedly credible. Get real dude.

 

[charwin95]

If this becomes

Some positive news amidst all the gray clouds

Topline: President Trump said in a Thursday press briefing that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, drugs used to treat malaria and severe arthritis, were approved by the Food and Drug Administration to test as a COVID-19 coronavirus treatment, as the number of cases nationwide continues to increase.

• The drugs will be used in a clinical trial, according to FDA commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn, who spoke during the press briefing.
• Trump also said that other antiviral medications will be fast-tracked for FDA approval.

Updated: Trump Says FDA Approved Anti-Malaria Drug Chloroquine To Test As Coronavirus Treatment

If this becomes available in the states Bill Gates and the rest of the elite will be angry as hell thst there is a cure.lol we are the most corrupt government in the world,you go to many other countries and this is available over the counter.

There is this doctor who has treated her patients with it and she cured everyone of them from the virus.the corporate controlled media is not reporting any of this of course.

Purely hogwash. What in the world are you talking about Dude?

HCQ + combinations are used on most or all hospitals here and other part of the world. But it’s not the cure. But it’s not the cure. Otherwise the deaths could have avoided or lot less but deaths continue to rise.

And you cannot even mention a doctor’s name that SHE treated patients with HCQ. You don’t even question it? How did you even know that she treated Covid 19 patients? Or number of patients?

Just because you are tested positive doesn’t mean you are really infected, some recover without taking anything.

Then you blame the media for not reporting it. They did but blasted her for stupidity and ignorance.

 

[charwin95]

It cured 40 out of 40 of the first batch or test subjects according to what I read this morning.

You read correctly,that is true,it cures EvERYONE.

And who proves it. You and your buddies?

 

[charwin95]

Let's cut the shit. The problem that liberalism has with hydroxychloroquine is that President Trump endorsed it. In other countries, they use it all the time. World leaders like President Bukele endorse it too. Once Trump leaves, the hate for HCQ will disappear.

Yes and to cut the shit even further, Democrats want to inflict as much pain as possible on the American populace to gain political power.

If anyone needs more proof in the matter, Why is Joey B saying if elected he would close down the U.S....

'I would shut it down': Biden says if scientists recommended, he would lock down country to curb COVID-19

“We cannot get the country moving until we control the virus," Biden told ABC News. "I would shut it down. I would listen to the scientists."

www.usatoday.com

What in the world are you saying?

Trump already inflicted damages to millions and millions of Americans lives and life. Over 5 millions infected and counting and 180,000+ deaths and counting. Americans are scared, financially sufferings, unemployment, businesses closures that will never come back.
Because of Trump incompetence. Look at him before and today.

Does it look like he gives a shit? Is he equip to handle these crisis? Hell NO. Does he listen to scientist and experts? HELL NO.
But he listened to a lunatic doctor, ignorantly promote HCQ, promote conspiracies and other purely hogwash.

Biden is 100% accurate. He said he would listen to science and experts. If we don’t control this pandemic we can never get there to normal.

DONT FORGET. we could have a vaccine for Covid 19 but we can never eliminate the Covid 19. Just like the vaccine for ordinary flu it never left us after years of vaccines availability.

Wow you sure are babbling,it was the democrats that are responsible for all that Einstein.lol

Wrong again. Tell me where and when is the Democrats responsible for all these chaos, infections and deaths? Prove it.

 

[charwin95]

~~~~~~

HCQ for COVID-19: real-time analysis of all 267 studies

HCQ for COVID-19: real-time analysis of all 267 studies

c19study.com

I think you just buried charwin95.....

Indeed,he sure did,he is the one that needs to listens to scientists and doctors,grampa nailed it saying forty out of forty that were treated recovered,it works for EVERYONE,one doctor is on record that he treated several dozens of patients and ALL recovered,you just got to go to bitchute and you’ll find those videos of doctors saying that.

You'll also find that Marc K. Siegel is an American physician, Associate Professor of Medicine at the NYU Langone Medical Center

Dr. Marc Siegel opens up about his father, 96, and his use of hydroxychloroquine

Dr. Marc Siegel, a Fox News medical contributor, told “Tucker Carlson Tonight” on Tuesday that his 96-year-old father was recently weak and struggling to breathe but recovered after he was administered the anti-malaria drug and antibiotics.

www.foxnews.com

You dont even question that. That is so silly. Dr. Siegel father 96 yo suffering from hard to breathe gave him HCQ and plus.


WTH? Did he tested him for Covid 19? Did he check his saturation ( amount of oxygen in his body) level?
Gave his father HCQ and plus recovered the next day. OVER NIGHT? Dr. Siegel is nothing but pure LIAR and BULLSHIT.
Taking HCQ and plus is a regiment for several days. if you are really infected with Covid-19 no one recover from overnight. If it’s hard to breathe means your lungs has been taking over by the virus. Hard to breathe doesn’t constitute you have the virus. Its that simple.

 

[badger2]

In "Hydroxychloroquine: A Morality Tale," Doidge says:

'That was in early April, shortly after a French study showed it was safe and effective in lowering the virus count, at times in combination with azithromycin.'

Doidge does not mention Raoult's name for the French study but does mention viral titres for hcq. The Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology (snake meat thread, post #945)must think this matters, when it states, 'Hydroxychloroquine combined with azithromycin enhances the decrease of the viral load in COVID-19 patients.' This means that it works against the virus. The fact that Zelenko's protocol, that adds zinc (which Raoult did not) seems completely lost on Doidge, but Doidge does go on to touch base with combinations, stating, 'most complex illnesses like covid-19 often require a group of medications.'

Doidge says, 'But malaria couldn't resist hcq, which is nothing but cq with a slight modification of its chemical structure, an added hydroxyl group.'
Doidge's belittling "nothing but" shows that there is a lack of pharmaceutical knowledge here, because addition of the hydroxyl group is no little matter (snake meat thread, post #957) when it comes to viral proofreading. Hydroxychloroquine interrupts COVID-19 proofreading.

 

[Leo123]

WTH? Did he tested him for Covid 19? Did he check his saturation ( amount of oxygen in his body) level?
Gave his father HCQ and plus recovered the next day. OVER NIGHT? Dr. Siegel is nothing but pure LIAR and BULLSHIT.
Taking HCQ and plus is a regiment for several days. if you are really infected with Covid-19 no one recover from overnight. If it’s hard to breathe means your lungs has been taking over by the virus. Hard to breathe doesn’t constitute you have the virus. Its that simple.

Flamebait.....Orange Man Bad Syndrome (OMBS)^^^^^^^

 

[charwin95]

WTH? Did he tested him for Covid 19? Did he check his saturation ( amount of oxygen in his body) level?
Gave his father HCQ and plus recovered the next day. OVER NIGHT? Dr. Siegel is nothing but pure LIAR and BULLSHIT.
Taking HCQ and plus is a regiment for several days. if you are really infected with Covid-19 no one recover from overnight. If it’s hard to breathe means your lungs has been taking over by the virus. Hard to breathe doesn’t constitute you have the virus. Its that simple.

Flamebait.....Orange Man Bad Syndrome (OMBS)^^^^^^^

Flame bait? I responded exactly how a dumb doctor can spew that kind of garbage. You are here discussing about HCQ but you don’t even know how, what, why the logistics of HCQ.

Pay attention. There’s no such thing as taking HCQ then recover the next day. A doctor go on national tv to spit that kind of garbage stupidity is just unbelievable. I watched all major news networks. By far Fox News broadcasts a lot of misinformation and Dr. Siegel is an example. He made it so simple take 2 Tylenol when you wake up your headache is gone.

You are 100% accurate Orange man is bad.

 

[Leo123]

Flame bait? I responded exactly how a dumb doctor can spew that kind of garbage. You are here discussing about HCQ but you don’t even know how, what, why the logistics of HCQ.

Pay attention. There’s no such thing as taking HCQ then recover the next day. A doctor go on national tv to spit that kind of garbage stupidity is just unbelievable. I watched all major news networks. By far Fox News broadcasts a lot of misinformation and Dr. Siegel is an example. He made it so simple take 2 Tylenol when you wake up your headache is gone.

You are 100% accurate Orange man is bad.

Like I said, flamebait. Do you have a medical degree for dispensing medical advice? If so, how can you diagnose without an examination of the patient? No, all you're doing is spouting your OMBS frankly YOU spout misinformation here on the Forum all the time.

 

[badger2]

Doidge does mention Raoult at length further in the article, and does a stellar job of relating the events of those trials, though what was stunning for us was to see this author take the Chinese bait about their "intuition" with those COVID-19 patients in Wuhan who did not have lupus. At that point in the article, we will take up further investigation. Zelenko's zinc addition will be an important factor when we take a closer look at C-19 molecular genetics.