CDZ How to go on from here.

[Care4all]

What’s missed in the entire discourse on covid, is humans have lived with and overcome viruses for eternity. We have an immune system that when functioning properly defeats viruses.

What is needed is an honest and informed discussion on how to stay healthy. Not stay home and stay safe. Viruses are around humans at all times. Are we all to become hermits to avoid exposure?

With a lot of deaths first, we have and do overcome most viruses.....over decades of time.....

but with Science and our own ingenuity, we've created vaccines, that rapidly give us this natural herd immunity, and reduce those massive death tolls that occur if allowed to develop natural immunity without a vaccine, which takes many deaths and a long time.

What is better?

I vote for the vaccine route!!!

Do you actually believe with 100,000 Americans dying every two months.... would have done nothing to our economy? Once this new virus hit and allowed to spread, our economy was doomed!!! imo.

We need to learn from this new virus epidemic....have a real plan on what to do....that we all know about and can plan for in our own lives, not this knee jerk chaos.

have detailed scientific guidance on how businesses can stay opened during a pandemic and kill less people.

Have a compliant citizenry that are willing to wear a mask or social distance when needed, have the masks supplied by government and work places etc...

Wouldn't it have been better to keep businesses opened at half mast, (following separation guidelines and other measures for safety) then to shut them down altogether.....? Instead of us paying the businesses to shut down altogether, pay them for the business missed, and the employee reduction, by being half mast?

We need a plan for this kind of stuff.....

Containment, early on, would have kept the virus from spreading like wild fire and would have prevented a nationwide shut down. We couldn't tell eople to wear masks early on, because we didn't have enough masks in supply and the manufacturing of them, were not factories here in the USA....

containment involves a compliant citizenry, willing to be tested and isolated until they rid themselves of the virus. And an efficient government, developing and providing the testing and PPE supplies for all States..... a national strategic supply chain and stock pile.

This virus is going to reemerge come October/November, in a big way, if it acts like a flu, and this will be in the middle of the influenza season....where hospital beds are taken up with them.....

Are we planning for this now? Will we stay opened? Will we be forced to shut down again in a haphazard manner again cuz we are caught with our pants down?

A lot of what we are going through, is our own stupidity, and hardheadedness involving some perceived freedom that kills your neighbor and dad and grandmom.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There seem to be those who are convinced the pandemic is real and the measures justified and those who feel it is a plot. Either way, we have gone through this period and things are not as they were.
Economically, politically, socially, technologically, life from now on will have been modified.
It is fruitless to waste time on criticism of much of this. What we need to do is take stock of what changes are in place and how to maximize effort for better existence.
New meaning(s) for the word "flexibility" will be necessary for economics to deal with the situation.
Elected officials will have much to answer for and representative government may improve from resultant voter scrutiny.
Social consciousness and manners seem to have risen and that would be good to foster.
Technology plays into so much here that almost endless categories could be identified. Recognition of one's state of health, for example, can hardly be classified as invasion of privacy; all our instincts work to perceive the nature of anyone we exchange with, so such 'recognition' is constantly present and at work. That our perceptions be enhanced through electronic means is only a natural evolution.
There is enormous room here for just about any speculations. What will be interesting to see is which are the most on people's minds.

There is a bit of both in my opinion, at the beginning of the pandemic from China it was a simple flu (the Chinese have hidden the truth) from the start while building two hospitals in the space of a few days and following that everyone more or less followed the "instructions" of the Chinese and also of WHO who are more than bad about this management and with the time that passed and that people were dying little by little the leaders changed their speech but the populists did not follow it because do not forget that the WHO minimized the coronavirus and now it has become frankly political because the democrats of the whole world jumped at the opportunity to blame the populists and especially to go against Trump all the blows allowed towards him and nobody here can say the opposite

Yes. Trump has absolutely been victimized by the world’s democrats. If the media would only praise his every word and action, we’d have had almost no deaths as a result of this virus and our economy would still be the strongest in history because of his awesomeness.

 

[Dalia]

There seem to be those who are convinced the pandemic is real and the measures justified and those who feel it is a plot. Either way, we have gone through this period and things are not as they were.
Economically, politically, socially, technologically, life from now on will have been modified.
It is fruitless to waste time on criticism of much of this. What we need to do is take stock of what changes are in place and how to maximize effort for better existence.
New meaning(s) for the word "flexibility" will be necessary for economics to deal with the situation.
Elected officials will have much to answer for and representative government may improve from resultant voter scrutiny.
Social consciousness and manners seem to have risen and that would be good to foster.
Technology plays into so much here that almost endless categories could be identified. Recognition of one's state of health, for example, can hardly be classified as invasion of privacy; all our instincts work to perceive the nature of anyone we exchange with, so such 'recognition' is constantly present and at work. That our perceptions be enhanced through electronic means is only a natural evolution.
There is enormous room here for just about any speculations. What will be interesting to see is which are the most on people's minds.

There is a bit of both in my opinion, at the beginning of the pandemic from China it was a simple flu (the Chinese have hidden the truth) from the start while building two hospitals in the space of a few days and following that everyone more or less followed the "instructions" of the Chinese and also of WHO who are more than bad about this management and with the time that passed and that people were dying little by little the leaders changed their speech but the populists did not follow it because do not forget that the WHO minimized the coronavirus and now it has become frankly political because the democrats of the whole world jumped at the opportunity to blame the populists and especially to go against Trump all the blows allowed towards him and nobody here can say the opposite

Yes. Trump has absolutely been victimized by the world’s democrats. If the media would only praise his every word and action, we’d have had almost no deaths as a result of this virus and our economy would still be the strongest in history because of his awesomeness.

You also forget that Trump didn't ask for anything, he's not to blame for this coronavirus even if you Democrats want to blame him for everything. Well even when he does something good he is criticized as having closed the borders to the Chinese from the start. I give an example of my good faith. I do not like Obama but I can say that he did well to have defended his plan of 60 billion euros, launched in 2009 to save the automakers Chrysler and General Motors. Could you do the same?

 

[there4eyeM]

A system not based upon humanity, life and health is existentially fragile. Profit, money and wealth are materialist. The human 'soul', our essence, our highest and best, is not material.

 

[gipper]

What’s missed in the entire discourse on covid, is humans have lived with and overcome viruses for eternity. We have an immune system that when functioning properly defeats viruses.

What is needed is an honest and informed discussion on how to stay healthy. Not stay home and stay safe. Viruses are around humans at all times. Are we all to become hermits to avoid exposure?

With a lot of deaths first, we have and do overcome most viruses.....over decades of time.....

but with Science and our own ingenuity, we've created vaccines, that rapidly give us this natural herd immunity, and reduce those massive death tolls that occur if allowed to develop natural immunity without a vaccine, which takes many deaths and a long time.

What is better?

I vote for the vaccine route!!!

Do you actually believe with 100,000 Americans dying every two months.... would have done nothing to our economy? Once this new virus hit and allowed to spread, our economy was doomed!!! imo.

We need to learn from this new virus epidemic....have a real plan on what to do....that we all know about and can plan for in our own lives, not this knee jerk chaos.

have detailed scientific guidance on how businesses can stay opened during a pandemic and kill less people.

Have a compliant citizenry that are willing to wear a mask or social distance when needed, have the masks supplied by government and work places etc...

Wouldn't it have been better to keep businesses opened at half mast, (following separation guidelines and other measures for safety) then to shut them down altogether.....? Instead of us paying the businesses to shut down altogether, pay them for the business missed, and the employee reduction, by being half mast?

We need a plan for this kind of stuff.....

Containment, early on, would have kept the virus from spreading like wild fire and would have prevented a nationwide shut down. We couldn't tell eople to wear masks early on, because we didn't have enough masks in supply and the manufacturing of them, were not factories here in the USA....

containment involves a compliant citizenry, willing to be tested and isolated until they rid themselves of the virus. And an efficient government, developing and providing the testing and PPE supplies for all States..... a national strategic supply chain and stock pile.

This virus is going to reemerge come October/November, in a big way, if it acts like a flu, and this will be in the middle of the influenza season....where hospital beds are taken up with them.....

Are we planning for this now? Will we stay opened? Will we be forced to shut down again in a haphazard manner again cuz we are caught with our pants down?

A lot of what we are going through, is our own stupidity, and hardheadedness involving some perceived freedom that kills your neighbor and dad and grandmom.

I’m not living my life in fear of the virus. If you want to, that’s your right.

 

[candycorn]

There seem to be those who are convinced the pandemic is real and the measures justified and those who feel it is a plot. Either way, we have gone through this period and things are not as they were.
Economically, politically, socially, technologically, life from now on will have been modified.
It is fruitless to waste time on criticism of much of this. What we need to do is take stock of what changes are in place and how to maximize effort for better existence.
New meaning(s) for the word "flexibility" will be necessary for economics to deal with the situation.
Elected officials will have much to answer for and representative government may improve from resultant voter scrutiny.
Social consciousness and manners seem to have risen and that would be good to foster.
Technology plays into so much here that almost endless categories could be identified. Recognition of one's state of health, for example, can hardly be classified as invasion of privacy; all our instincts work to perceive the nature of anyone we exchange with, so such 'recognition' is constantly present and at work. That our perceptions be enhanced through electronic means is only a natural evolution.
There is enormous room here for just about any speculations. What will be interesting to see is which are the most on people's minds.

I'm pretty sure that most start-up small businesses will realize that back office stuff can be handled without the monetary outlay for office space. Many personal laptops are just as powerful as the computers that are found in new offices and, whats more, the owners know how to operate them. So instead of having to rent office space for a desk, bathrooms, break rooms, conference rooms etc... you have your office staff stay home and just route the phone calls there, have them log onto your software from their house, prepare and mail the spreadsheets, invoices, etc.... The next step in this will be those who then self-outsource from their home. Having their sister pull their shift or whatever. That will probably be an unfortunate side-effect of this which may hurt the roll-out and spread of this win-win. Sylvia passed all of the background checks. Her sister who has been in jail on and off since 16? Probably not. Once a business matures it will probably rein in the off-site working. Self-sabotage is one of the traits of managers/owners when they start to experience success.

I think the "conference industry" is probably one of the casualties of the pandemic. The conferences were pretty much a luxury for most companies; almost a perk for employees. I didn't like going to the ones I went to that much. Now, I doubt you'll get much buy-in for the conference model as a whole. The spin-off "disease" if you will from the lack of conferences is that a lot of these new stadiums were built based on the hotel/motel and rental car tax that will go to pay off the bonds that were sold to build the sports palaces. If nobody is staying in the hotels or renting the cars, there is no tax to levy on the room or the car. Thus no income for the cities who sold the bonds to pay for the new stadiums. Cities like Houston that built 4 of these stadiums are going to be on the hook for a lot of money.

Other things I've been thinking about/reading about....

Expanding outward from there...cities and states will be further hurt by the lack of sales tax collection. The days of eating out 5 nights a week are probably over for many folks. If not from fear, from the lack of choices as restaurants they once favored are gone. Again, no sales...no sales tax revenue.

Some Air BNB providers decided to turn their rentals into short-term leases. While this is good for the renters who are getting a quality living space on the cheap; its probably not great for the tax base. I doubt that will be a long-term episode but I do think that a lot of Air BNB inventory is gone.

Mass transit? I rode mass transit for years when I lived in Houston. Its probably a thing of the past for those who have seen "how the other half live". I know I wouldn't want to get into a bus full of people right now; mask or no mask; glove or no glove.

Macro..

Imports won't be affected. Low prices will always win out.

Smaller cars may make a come-back

Businesses who were on the fence about getting a website will probably see (or have already seen) how isolated they are when they are not "clickable".

 

[there4eyeM]

It is interesting the bicycles have emerged more than ever as serious alternatives in commuting and just getting around. This can only have a positive effect on health, pollution and appreciation for nature.
Simple pleasures that stood out while we were all confined also remain valued, while the excesses can be better seen for being just that, excessive.

 

[Mac-7]

Some people will go back out into the world and some will continue to stay home. Everyone wins in the end. I bet 50 percent just go back, 30 percent follow strict guidelines longer and the other 20 do a combo. This will be a good thing.

I would be surprised if 30% have enough savings to sit at home for long

When the helicopter money runs out libs will have to go back to work

 

[CowboyTed]

There seem to be those who are convinced the pandemic is real and the measures justified and those who feel it is a plot.

Would it surprise you to know that I am a little of both?

The pandemic is indeed real, but it can be a plot also. Why? Because nobody ever mentions the survival rate. Ever.

The play on fear is strong.

Look at how that play has devastated our economy.

Th US approach to this is bizzare to the rest of the world..

It is simple,
Get growth per day down to <0.5%
Test >2% of you Population a week
Get <1% positive tests...

Then start a phased opening.. Keeping an eye on those numbers staying static or going down...