How much liberating is the United States for immigrants?

[Mortimer]

I put it in Constitution because the liberty and freedom is based on the rights of the constitution and the system etc. I didnt know where to put it else, but if a mod thinks it fits better somewhere else, then please move it.

I was thinking that the USA is historically a liberating space/country for new comers, but only for white caucasians. People who were religious minorities or escaped a famine or dictators and political terror fled to USA and became free. For example people who were persecuted by the catholic church in Europe. But that was only for white caucasians, for non-caucasians the USA never had the same liberty and freedom and rights.

Do you agree?

 

[emilynghiem]

I put it in Constitution because the liberty and freedom is based on the rights of the constitution and the system etc. I didnt know where to put it else, but if a mod thinks it fits better somewhere else, then please move it.

I was thinking that the USA is historically a liberating space/country for new comers, but only for white caucasians. People who were religious minorities or escaped a famine or dictators and political terror fled to USA and became free. For example people who were persecuted by the catholic church in Europe. But that was only for white caucasians, for non-caucasians the USA never had the same liberty and freedom and rights.

Do you agree?

Are you counting Asian immigrants
As having similar privilege as Whites?

 

[Mortimer]

I put it in Constitution because the liberty and freedom is based on the rights of the constitution and the system etc. I didnt know where to put it else, but if a mod thinks it fits better somewhere else, then please move it.

I was thinking that the USA is historically a liberating space/country for new comers, but only for white caucasians. People who were religious minorities or escaped a famine or dictators and political terror fled to USA and became free. For example people who were persecuted by the catholic church in Europe. But that was only for white caucasians, for non-caucasians the USA never had the same liberty and freedom and rights.

Do you agree?

Are you counting Asian immigrants
As having similar privilege as Whites?

historically not, but nowadays they are a "model minority" it seems.

 

[cnm]

So the black Caucasians had a hard time?

 

[Mortimer]

So the black Caucasians had a hard time?

I wanted to write white europeans, but remembered that historically some middle eastern groups were considered white too. so i wrote white caucasian. i doubt black caucasians were considered white by the usa.

 

[cnm]

I think you'd find yourself a lot happier if you could convince yourself you didn't have to label people, including yourself.

 

[Mortimer]

I think you'd find yourself a lot happier if you could convince yourself you didn't have to label people, including yourself.

well i dont know who you are, but if you are minority or democrat we are on the same side, so you dont need to attack me if you republican or racist, well then fuck off

 

[Mortimer]

I think you'd find yourself a lot happier if you could convince yourself you didn't have to label people, including yourself.

it was like that, if you decide you dont want to lable how it was, it still wont go away. i dont understand your problem.

 

[shockedcanadian]

This is a very broad assumption, and I'd say it's inaccurate. If you are focusing on race you are forgetting that race comes with other variables too: gender, religious beliefs and even the freedom to pursue these beliefs, political opinion, sexual orientation etc.

Consider for instance, a female coming from Saudi Arabia. She would experience liberty at a level unheard of in her home country. Ditto for a woman from Afghanistan, Pakistan and many other countries. In some countries, just getting an education is difficult, driving a car! Think about that last statement. You leave your country to come to the confines of America with freedom, Constitutional Rights, Rule of Law, Due Process, religious freedom. Do you not think that ANYONE regardless of race, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation.

America isn't perfect, no country could ever be, but it aspires to be better. It aspires to defend and uphold it's Constitution. Again, for a woman who wants her independence to become educated and drive a car, America would open up an entire new world, and that's not even going further into the details of how much more free she is. Sexual orientation can cause you to be imprisoned, openly beaten in the streets or even killed in many countries, America defends your right to your personal choice.

I could go on but you get the picture. None of these rights and liberation is exclusive to ones race and this is the beauty of individual right and self determination, it allows America to receive the best and brightest citizens from around the world. No other nation is in higher demand, and it's for a reason. I could compare Canada to America and it would be night and day, we are socialists, a great deal of our system runs contrary to the American system, you can just imagine how much of a difference it is for others in countries even less welcoming than even lowly Canada. America is doing fine, providing liberty to many without question.

 

[cnm]

I think you'd find yourself a lot happier if you could convince yourself you didn't have to label people, including yourself.

well i dont know who you are, but if you are minority or democrat we are on the same side, so you dont need to attack me if you republican or racist, well then fuck off

Oh well, if you think noting your penchant for labelling people is attacking you, label away. If you want a label for me you might well look at my location for a clue.

 

[cnm]

None of these rights and liberation is exclusive to ones race and this is the beauty of individual right and self determination, it allows America to receive the best and brightest citizens from around the world. No other nation is in higher demand, and it's for a reason.

Yet in 2013, Canada had a greater percentage of its population as immigrants, at 21% odd than did the US at 14% odd.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com

Mindlessly bleating USA! USA! USA! is not really an argument.

 

[shockedcanadian]

None of these rights and liberation is exclusive to ones race and this is the beauty of individual right and self determination, it allows America to receive the best and brightest citizens from around the world. No other nation is in higher demand, and it's for a reason.

Yet in 2013, Canada had a greater percentage of its population as immigrants, at 21% odd than did the US at 14% odd.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com

Mindlessly bleating USA! USA! USA! is not really an argument.

Oh it's not?

USA! USA!

Your immigrants contribute to R&D, innovation, places like Silicon Valley, our immigrants are "bestowed" the opportunity to drive a taxi cab by their benevolent rulers. We say "Welcome to Canada, the world is your oyster". A week later they are handed a set of cab car keys due to Canadian regulations, restrictions, impediment to their pursuits. They will rot in that cab asking themselves "How and why?"

Canada is NOT America. We are a caste system. You are born poor, you will die poor. Your individual talents, efforts, skill set and ambition have no value here. The joke here is "if you have talent and want to succeed, move to America".

Trump will further illustrate the chasm between the U.S and Canadian system, he is about to eat our lunch and there is no will in Canada to change this. He will start in Ontario with our auto industry and corporate offices and move West with his policies and influence. Canada likes things the way they are, because, it's been this way since our inception and we dislike change. Now we have no choice.

Oh, and God Bless America.

 

[cnm]

Canada is NOT America. We are a caste system. You are born poor, you will die poor.

The US has less social mobility than Europe. Chanting USA! USA! is not an argument. You have produced no data, merely bold assertions. What a surprise.

 

[cnm]

The joke here is "if you have talent and want to succeed, move to America".

Why are you still there, as a matter of curiosity?

 

[shockedcanadian]

The joke here is "if you have talent and want to succeed, move to America".

Why are you still there, as a matter of curiosity?

I am here because I will not capitulate to my abusers, but would rather share these details with Americans and most importantly your incoming government and security apparatus. Furthermore, I would gladly leave for America , but only on the premise I would be a citizen there, I'm not going to go on a Visa. This is a very important distinction for many reasons.

Canada has stabbed America in the back since the dawn of time, but it has been particularly offensive the last three decades. Trump has one fact down pat, American allies have been taking advantage of America. Some, like Canada; utilize the police to cause harm assuming wrongfully they can do so without repercussions. That is about to change dramatically.

 

[SeaGal]

I put it in Constitution because the liberty and freedom is based on the rights of the constitution and the system etc. I didnt know where to put it else, but if a mod thinks it fits better somewhere else, then please move it.

I was thinking that the USA is historically a liberating space/country for new comers, but only for white caucasians. People who were religious minorities or escaped a famine or dictators and political terror fled to USA and became free. For example people who were persecuted by the catholic church in Europe. But that was only for white caucasians, for non-caucasians the USA never had the same liberty and freedom and rights.

Do you agree?

No.

The white race includes people of European descent, both northern and southern, the Middle East and Northern Africa. The other two races are black Africans and Asians. Most Native Americans are of Asian descent - so the New World truly is the land of immigrants.

It is true that many immigrants brought with them all the prejudices and bigotries experienced in their homeland...the effect of those prejudices on others were mitigated by the US Constitution and the rule of law...not perfect, no. It utterly failed our black African brothers and sisters until just about 60 years ago.

Northern Europeans were the predominant force in North America, while southern Europeans reigned in Mexico, Central and South America. The first question should be - for all it warts and blemishes why is the US so attractive to immigrants, and the rest of the Americas less so?

What did the Northern Europeans do differently with the land they populated compared to the Southern Europeans with the land they claimed? If China or India had first populated the land would the US exist?...would there be a constitution? Long before the US became a welfare state people yearning for freedom and opportunity made their way to these shores with no guarantee of food, clothing, shelter or health care.

What I find fascinating - so many people, still, are eager to leave their homeland, families and culture to be a part of something that still offers great opportunity. America is a very generous country.

I'll answer the first question for you - the difference is adherence to the rule of law and a blind (as opposed to social or corrupt) justice system. You cannot escape the oppression of a country that ignores the rule of law by demanding your 'adopted' country ignore the rule of law. btw - Bigotry is not the exclusive realm of the 'majority'.

Identity politics, putting people in neatly labeled boxes, is a tool of politicians who benefit by separating us into 'competing/envious' groups as they consolidate power. The promise of special benefits/privileges based on heritage or culture or skin color is what so many of our ancestors fled from. But yes, Europeans are the predominant species in the Americas, so? - and parts of the Americas have been far more successful than others.

 

[Mortimer]

I put it in Constitution because the liberty and freedom is based on the rights of the constitution and the system etc. I didnt know where to put it else, but if a mod thinks it fits better somewhere else, then please move it.

I was thinking that the USA is historically a liberating space/country for new comers, but only for white caucasians. People who were religious minorities or escaped a famine or dictators and political terror fled to USA and became free. For example people who were persecuted by the catholic church in Europe. But that was only for white caucasians, for non-caucasians the USA never had the same liberty and freedom and rights.

Do you agree?

No.

The white race includes people of European descent, both northern and southern, the Middle East and Northern Africa. The other two races are black Africans and Asians. Most Native Americans are of Asian descent - so the New World truly is the land of immigrants.

It is true that many immigrants brought with them all the prejudices and bigotries experienced in their homeland...the effect of those prejudices on others were mitigated by the US Constitution and the rule of law...not perfect, no. It utterly failed our black African brothers and sisters until just about 60 years ago.

Northern Europeans were the predominant force in North America, while southern Europeans reigned in Mexico, Central and South America. The first question should be - for all it warts and blemishes why is the US so attractive to immigrants, and the rest of the Americas less so?

What did the Northern Europeans do differently with the land they populated compared to the Southern Europeans with the land they claimed? If China or India had first populated the land would the US exist?...would there be a constitution? Long before the US became a welfare state people yearning for freedom and opportunity made their way to these shores with no guarantee of food, clothing, shelter or health care.

What I find fascinating - so many people, still, are eager to leave their homeland, families and culture to be a part of something that still offers great opportunity. America is a very generous country.

I'll answer the first question for you - the difference is adherence to the rule of law and a blind (as opposed to social or corrupt) justice system. You cannot escape the oppression of a country that ignores the rule of law by demanding your 'adopted' country ignore the rule of law. btw - Bigotry is not the exclusive realm of the 'majority'.

Identity politics, putting people in neatly labeled boxes, is a tool of politicians who benefit by separating us into 'competing/envious' groups as they consolidate power. The promise of special benefits/privileges based on heritage or culture or skin color is what so many of our ancestors fled from. But yes, Europeans are the predominant species in the Americas, so? - and parts of the Americas have been far more successful than others.

But fact is historically freedom and citizenship rights (even some human rights in some cases) were reserved for white people or who was deemed white by the US supreme court and the US government. Also immigration was limited to whites. Now since a few decades its maybe different but not that long even in 1960 blacks were in the back seat of the bus and quiete segregated, even to this day there are justices who refuse to issue marriage license for interracial couples. Blacks were seen as a quarter of a human that was even written in law.

 

[Mortimer]

This is a very broad assumption, and I'd say it's inaccurate. If you are focusing on race you are forgetting that race comes with other variables too: gender, religious beliefs and even the freedom to pursue these beliefs, political opinion, sexual orientation etc.

Consider for instance, a female coming from Saudi Arabia. She would experience liberty at a level unheard of in her home country. Ditto for a woman from Afghanistan, Pakistan and many other countries. In some countries, just getting an education is difficult, driving a car! Think about that last statement. You leave your country to come to the confines of America with freedom, Constitutional Rights, Rule of Law, Due Process, religious freedom. Do you not think that ANYONE regardless of race, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation.

America isn't perfect, no country could ever be, but it aspires to be better. It aspires to defend and uphold it's Constitution. Again, for a woman who wants her independence to become educated and drive a car, America would open up an entire new world, and that's not even going further into the details of how much more free she is. Sexual orientation can cause you to be imprisoned, openly beaten in the streets or even killed in many countries, America defends your right to your personal choice.

I could go on but you get the picture. None of these rights and liberation is exclusive to ones race and this is the beauty of individual right and self determination, it allows America to receive the best and brightest citizens from around the world. No other nation is in higher demand, and it's for a reason. I could compare Canada to America and it would be night and day, we are socialists, a great deal of our system runs contrary to the American system, you can just imagine how much of a difference it is for others in countries even less welcoming than even lowly Canada. America is doing fine, providing liberty to many without question.

I could turn it around, a woman in USA would have a hard time following Islam fully. If she wanted to be teacher with a veil etc. But I talked historically not neccessarily now, nowadays many rights and freedoms were extended to non-whites which historically they didnt had.

 

[Wiskers Von Pussyboots]

I put it in Constitution because the liberty and freedom is based on the rights of the constitution and the system etc. I didnt know where to put it else, but if a mod thinks it fits better somewhere else, then please move it.

I was thinking that the USA is historically a liberating space/country for new comers, but only for white caucasians. People who were religious minorities or escaped a famine or dictators and political terror fled to USA and became free. For example people who were persecuted by the catholic church in Europe. But that was only for white caucasians, for non-caucasians the USA never had the same liberty and freedom and rights.

Do you agree?

Generally all legal migrants from all countries and of all races do better than blacks and many whites who are born here. The Vietnamese practically own Southern California. West Africans do exceptionally well here. I'll flip the question around on its head for you: if the United States wasn't so free and liberating why are so many around the world of all races willing to risk life and limb to come here? Cubans cross an ocean and Latin Americans get robbed, beaten, and raped as they fight a scorching sun and dehydration on their way in. You don't think these people know the danger? The certainly do I assure you but despite all of this they weigh the risks between staying home or migrating to the US, and yet, migrate anyway. Anyone who does that clearly believes that their lot is better cast in the US in which you so ignorantly claim is good "only for white Caucasians."

 

[Wiskers Von Pussyboots]

I put it in Constitution because the liberty and freedom is based on the rights of the constitution and the system etc. I didnt know where to put it else, but if a mod thinks it fits better somewhere else, then please move it.

I was thinking that the USA is historically a liberating space/country for new comers, but only for white caucasians. People who were religious minorities or escaped a famine or dictators and political terror fled to USA and became free. For example people who were persecuted by the catholic church in Europe. But that was only for white caucasians, for non-caucasians the USA never had the same liberty and freedom and rights.

Do you agree?

Are you counting Asian immigrants
As having similar privilege as Whites?

historically not, but nowadays they are a "model minority" it seems.

Indeed whites do recognise many Asians as a model minority. That simply demonstrates that whites hold value for cultures that strive in areas that whites are lacking or not as strong. Many Asians value hard work, sacrifice, and education. They are masters of delayed gratification for long term success. Both whites and Asians aren't afraid to drop their cultural bads in order to adopt the cultural good of another.

Blacks on the the other hand are culturally conservative and will defend themselves even in the event it is clear that a wrong has clearly been committed. For example, too many blacks getting arrested for selling drugs? Must be someone else's fault: must be white peoples fault. If whites move out of an increasingly black failing neighborhood, blacks will call it racist "white flight." If whites move in to a black neighborhood its evil "gentrification." When cops shoot a black man its racism no matter what the evidence shows. When black men kill other black men it is the subject that thou shalt not pay attention to. Indeed, no back person is at fault for what a black person does. If a black person commits a wrong it is for no other reason than "the legacy of slavery." It seems to me that black cultural conservatism is what's holding them down and they could learn a lot from whites and Asians.

He Dindu Nuffin (re: #BlackLivesMatter)