How do you detain a criminal at gun point?

[progressive hunter]

You don't seem to understand the basics, you're pulling your firearm out because you're facing imminent threat of death or great bodily harm, if that's not the case then you shouldn't drawing (or carrying around) your firearm. Learn how to avoid situations that lead to confrontations, get some quality self-defense training and carry a non-lethal, and you won't have to draw your firearm so damn often. Heaven forbid your luck runs out and you end in jail behind an aggravated assault charge or worse IN THE MORGUE.

No, it's ok for you to pull your gun and not shoot, until it's not. I'll continue with my strategy of using my skillset to avoid having to draw my firearm unless it's to stop an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm, in which case I'll actually use it for what it intended for.

so tell me,,

if you looked out your window and three thugs followed your wife home and are beating her up trying to take that fancy SUV you just got her,
do you run out there with your gun in your hand and if they see you and run away are you going to shoot them in the back??

not sure about you but I dont keep my gun on my belt while sitting in my lazy boy, so I would have to pick it up quick and run, not having/taking time to put the holster back on my belt,,

do you shoot them in the back when they run away because you have a gun??

 

[NetJedi]

so tell me,,

if you looked out your window and three thugs followed your wife home and are beating her up trying to take that fancy SUV you just got her,
do you run out there with your gun in your hand and if they see you and run away are you going to shoot them in the back??

That's an easy one, they're getting shot, because I'm not pulling out my firearm and waving it around trying to use it as an intimidation tool hoping I get lucky and they just "runaway". However, my wife parks in an attached garage and knows better than to tarry in transitional spaces so the likelihood of that scenario is very, very low, not to mention she carries a firearm of her own and has been trained in self-defense, so she knows when and how to use it.

not sure about you but I dont keep my gun on my belt while sitting in my lazy boy, so I would have to pick it up quick and run, not having/taking time to put the holster back on my belt,,

do you shoot them in the back when they run away because you have a gun??

I'm not going to draw my firearm on someone that is not presenting an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm and threaten them with it, that's aggravated assault and it's a felony, it also has the side effect of potentially getting me killed.

 

[progressive hunter]

That's an easy one, they're getting shot, because I'm not pulling out my firearm and waving it around trying to use it as an intimidation tool hoping I get lucky and they just "runaway". However, my wife parks in an attached garage and knows better than to tarry in transitional spaces so the likelihood of that scenario is very, very low, not to mention she carries a firearm of her own and has been trained in self-defense, so she knows when and how to use it.

I'm not going to draw my firearm on someone that is not presenting an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm and threaten them with it, that's aggravated assault and it's a felony, it also has the side effect of potentially getting me killed.

enjoy the rest of your life in jail,,

and serious member of the gun community do not condone shooting people in the back as theyre running away,,

 

[NetJedi]

enjoy the rest of your life in jail,,

and serious member of the gun community do not condone shooting people in the back as theyre running away,,

When did I "condone shooting people in the back when they're running away"? now you're being disingenuous because you've finally realized that you don't know what you're talking about.

You're far more likely to end up in jail than I am since you obviously don't know what you're doing when it comes to being a self-defender and think that your firearm should be used as some sort of talisman to ward off evil.

Ciao.

 

[progressive hunter]

That's an easy one, they're getting shot,

right here yyoure saying youu would shoot them in the back

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm not pulling out my firearm and waving it around trying to use it as an intimidation tool hoping I get lucky and they just "runaway".

and who said anything about waving it around trying to intimidate anyone??

 

[2aguy]

and who said anything about waving it around trying to intimidate anyone??

And what about the guy who just surrenders to you before you actually shoot him....? Who decides the moment he sees you that he is not willing to die to rob you, and throws his gun away and puts his hands up? That is what these other guys aren't taking into account......or the guy in your house who realizes you have a gun as you come up on him and again.

 

[2aguy]

Here you go......let's make this another real situation....

You find someone in your home.......stealing your stuff...but they don't have a gun, they just broke in to take things....now you are facing an unarmed home intruder with his hands up.......

Do you just shoot him? Is that what you guys are saying? Do you think that will fly in some of these jurisdictions?

And if you don't shoot him...now you have a criminal at gun point, who didn't have a gun in the first place....how do you safely hold him for the police..if he doesn't make a break for it....?

 

[progressive hunter]

And what about the guy who just surrenders to you before you actually shoot him....? Who decides the moment he sees you that he is not willing to die to rob you, and throws his gun away and puts his hands up? That is what these other guys aren't taking into account......or the guy in your house who realizes you have a gun as you come up on him and again.

so man scenarios that dont include sooting,,

 

[NetJedi]

And what about the guy who just surrenders to you before you actually shoot him....? Who decides the moment he sees you that he is not willing to die to rob you, and throws his gun away and puts his hands up? That is what these other guys aren't taking into account......or the guy in your house who realizes you have a gun as you come up on him and again.

I don't get what is so hard to understand about it, my firearm is not coming out of my holster unless I've determined that the assailant presents an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm, if that threat is present my firearm is going to get drawn and I will place an anatomically significant hit on the assailant and that whole process of drawing from concealment and placing that first shot is going to happen in around 1.06 seconds, follow on shots will be placed on target if necessary to stop the threat.

As far as a home intruder, I'm not shooting someone that doesn't present an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm, but I will get that person out of my house post haste one way or the other.

It's the job of law enforcement officers to detain suspects, not civilians, trying to detain an assailant has nothing but downside risks to you, not the least of which is a law enforcement officer putting a bullet in you because he sees you pointing a gun at someone Else and he has no idea who is who.

 

[westwall]

??


seriously?

Yeah, seriously. Just think, if someone had a pistol, maybe there wouldn't have been so many killed by that asshole in Solingen.

 

[Woodznutz]

It's not a tough call to decide to pull the trigger, if you're drawing your firearm (which is the tough call), you better have already decided that.

Bottom line, you should only draw your firearm if you (or others) are faced with an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm, which means you should have already made the decision to pull that trigger and keep pulling it until the threat has ended. If you're drawing your firearm with the intention of detaining an attacker, you're making a big mistake and putting your (or others) life at risk.

I do agree pulling that trigger will change your life forever that's why pulling your firearm out of that holster is the tough call that you should be rehearsing in your head ahead of time (as well as becoming intimately familiar with self-defense laws in your state) and know very well what your red lines are for doing it.

That being said in the case of an invasion into your domicile where castle doctrine (rebuttable presumption of imminent threat of death or great bodily harm) applies where you want to identify the risk before pulling the trigger (don't shoot the neighborhood 3rd grader that wandered into your house) would be the only exception and even then you do not want to "detain" the attacker, you want to get them the hell out of your home (or automobile) ASAP.

If my home is invaded, I will retreat to my bedroom, lock door, crouch behind bed, draw weapon, point it at the door, while dialing 911.

If I'm present when a shooting takes place anywhere else (and I'm packing) I will retreat as far away as possible from the event. If I'm in a building I will hide myself as best I can, draw my weapon and prepare to defend myself. I will not risk my life to save someone else.

 

[sparky]

Just wondering...

depends which state one lives in, and the castle laws it's adopted guy

for ex, an acquaintance of mine downtown caught a burglar IN his place red handed, had him kneel w/hands on head while he dialed 911

cops showed up, arrested them both.

it took 6 months and gawd knows how many attorney fees for him to get his guns back

the perp? he was out the next day......

~S~

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

Most criminals are smart enough to run away, or surrender when faced with an armed victim.........about 200 a year are terminally stupid and end up in the morgue....

But...

If you are forced to defend yourself and you end up with one or more idiots at gun point as you wait for the police........how do you coral them so they can't continue to attack?

If they run away, that is one thing....do not shoot them as they run.....but you may be facing them for a few minutes or more until the police arrive....

Do you have them lay on the ground? Do you have them kneel? Hands on their head or if they are on the ground out to the side?

Just wondering...

For our European friends....you will simply be a victim, beaten, robbed, or raped, so this thread doesn't really apply to you....

Wishful thinking: It would be nice if we could just shoot them in both kneecaps. They wouldn't run away or even get up. One can dream.
One stupid thing the "victim" has to do is that the "victim" is told that he/she/it must put the gun down before the cops enter, so that they don't shoot the victim. Nothing then stopping the criminal from grabbing the gun, shooting the victim and running out the back door.

 

[Missourian]

Why carry a firearm if it isn't to defend yourself from imminent death or great bodily harm and if you believe you're facing imminent death or great bodily harm why would you draw your firearm and then not use it to stop the threat? If the threat is NOT imminent then escape and evasion is the best choice and you have no need to draw your firearm.

As far as the "threat removing itself", based on extensive work with a range timer, (for example) my average draw and a first shot from concealment is 1.06 seconds (probably a smidge longer under real world duress) so unless I'm facing The Flash no way is the threat going to have the opportunity to "remove itself", the threat had the opportunity to "remove itself" BEFORE I drew my firearm.

IMHO The best you can do is know your red lines (and state laws) ahead of time, don't just carry a firearm also carry a non-lethal in your EDC kit and have good carry insurance. Rehearse the scenarios in your head and get (and maintain) excellent self-defense training, so that you're prepared in case you're faced with needing to defend against an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm.

I've pulled my firearm to end a threat that wasn't a threat of imminent death or grievous bodily harm.

The guy never saw the firearm...but he saw me pull it...and it immediately changed his behavior.

He called the police. I explained the situation...and if you want to hear about it, I'll tell you, but it's not important to the post.

Sometimes you can diffuse a situation with a firearm without pulling the trigger.

But that's not even the most important facet of this encounter.

I read this very article from Massad Ayoob...

READING BETWEEN THE LINES OF FIREARMS LAW |

And I haven't carried a black pistol since.

This particular day I was just running to Walmart and had a Bond Arms Snake Slayer stainless double barreled derringer. Very distinctive.

So when the guy told the police I pointed a gun at him...I asked the officer to have him describe it.

"It was black... that's all I remember."

And I was free to go.

 

[sparky]

Do we have the right to defend our existence ? ~S~

 

[Missourian]

Most criminals are smart enough to run away, or surrender when faced with an armed victim.........about 200 a year are terminally stupid and end up in the morgue....

But...

If you are forced to defend yourself and you end up with one or more idiots at gun point as you wait for the police........how do you coral them so they can't continue to attack?

If they run away, that is one thing....do not shoot them as they run.....but you may be facing them for a few minutes or more until the police arrive....

Do you have them lay on the ground? Do you have them kneel? Hands on their head or if they are on the ground out to the side?

Just wondering...

For our European friends....you will simply be a victim, beaten, robbed, or raped, so this thread doesn't really apply to you....

If they comply with my demands, great...if they flee...almost as good.

If they neither comply or flee you have a problem.

I've often considered in that situation, just letting them go...assuming they haven't injured anyone and are to the best of my knowledge unarmed.

If they refuse to comply, just saying "you know I could shoot you right now and kill you dead and be well within my rights. Turn around, get the fuck out of here...and never come back."

When I was in the Army, one of the doctrines of MOUT training (urban combat) is if at all possible, always clear a building starting from the roof and work your way down.

A trapped enemy will fight to the death. Given the option to escape, most will take the possibility of survival over certain death.

Kinda the same principle here on both sides of the equation.

My goal is survival... apprehension is a bonus.

Their goal is also survival...but also avoiding the consequences of their action...a possible lengthy incarceration that will change their life negatively for the foreseeable future.


Giving them an out diffuses that situation at least temporarily.

So you're faced with the Uncle Ben dilemma...if you allow them to escape...are you now responsible for their future actions and the possible victims of those actions?

Wish I could definitively answer that question...still grappling with it myself.

 

[ozro]

Here you go......let's make this another real situation....

You find someone in your home.......stealing your stuff...but they don't have a gun, they just broke in to take things....now you are facing an unarmed home intruder with his hands up.......

Do you just shoot him? Is that what you guys are saying? Do you think that will fly in some of these jurisdictions?

And if you don't shoot him...now you have a criminal at gun point, who didn't have a gun in the first place....how do you safely hold him for the police..if he doesn't make a break for it....?

If I find someone inside my home, he has already been subdued by my dogs. I would feel sorry for them, if they were still alive.I don't lock my doors, but I leave two well trained dogs inside when I'm away. Then there are the dogs outside. In fact, I don't see how anyone makes it into my house when I am gone to start with. If they make it past my mules into the fenced yard, which is doubtful, the dogs in the yard will give them a bit of trouble before they get into the house. Then there's the two very territorial dogs inside.....
As a matter of fact, I did shoot someone once in my yard, but they were pointing a weapon at me when I did. It was an unpleasant situation, to say the least.
If course, I don't have what most people call normal as a living situation. There are two locked gates on my private road before you get to the locked gate to my outer yard, that's where the mules are, (ever get chased by mules?They are very territorial.)then a locked gate to the two acres around the house. The number of dogs in the yard varies, right now I am involved in a rescue of abandoned dogs, so there are 11 in the yard. 1 of those dogs is mine, and is always here. But if needed he will show the 10 visitors what to do.
Did I mention that between the first and second gate is an area that I allow game and fish to use as an area to rehabilitate injured wild animals? Currently there is a mountain lion in that area.

 

[sparky]

this fits here>>

~S~

 

[Missourian]

this fits here>>

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~S~

'He said to them, But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.' Luke 22:36