Fueri
Platinum Member
- Nov 16, 2015
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It isnt AN epidemiologist, singular. This was all over the place.
Here ya go. Read and learn something or stay blind. There's plenty more where this came from, but I already know which way you'll go.....
Containing new coronavirus may not be feasible, experts say, as they warn of possible sustained global spread
Some infectious disease experts are warning that it may no longer be feasible to contain the new #coronavirus circulating in #China.www.statnews.com
Containing new coronavirus may not be feasible, experts say, as they warn of possible sustained global spread
By HELEN BRANSWELL @HelenBranswell
JANUARY 26, 2020
"Some infectious disease experts are warning that it may no longer be feasible to contain the new coronavirus circulating in China. Failure to stop it there could see the virus spread in a sustained way around the world and even perhaps join the ranks of respiratory viruses that regularly infect people.
“The more we learn about it, the greater the possibility is that transmission will not be able to be controlled with public health measures,” said Dr. Allison McGeer, a Toronto-based infectious disease specialist who contracted SARS in 2003 and who helped Saudi Arabia control several hospital-based outbreaks of MERS........."
......."Despite the enormous and admirable efforts in China and around the world, we need to plan for the possibility containment of this epidemic isn’t possible,” said Neil Ferguson, an infectious diseases epidemiology at Imperial College London who has issued a series of modeling studies on the outbreak."
On one side we have you and your frothy opinions. On the other are numerous experts that have dealt with previous outbreaks and actually have a clue.
B-b-b-but Trump! That position is ridiculous in the face of all of this- and that's all you've got. The End.
I knew this would be the case. Not even your own source makes the same claim that you do. Notice NO one said it was inevitable and impossible to contain or stop. It also does not represent the opinion of all or even a majority of epidemiologist.
This is the key sentence. Noticed the highlighted words:
"SOME infectious disease experts are warning that it MAY NO LONGER BE FEASIBLE to contain the new coronavirus circulating in China.
JAPAN and TAIWAN have proven this theory to be false. Only a few epidemiologist claimed this and they were not 100% certain that it could not be contained. So you have a few epidemiologist who expressed concern about whether it could be contained. That's very different from what you have been harping about for several pages now.
Obviously, it would be beneficial to Trump politically if there was "nothing you could have done", but its obvious now that is 100% FALSE! There is no reason the United States should be in its current position today, when TAIWAN and JAPAN, two countries more exposed to China than the United States, have controlled and contained the cases in their countries.
Donald Trump failed to prepare the United States over the last three years for a potential pandemic. He disbanded the part of the National Security Council that was responsible for helping to prepare the country for such a pandemic back in 2018. He cut funding to the CDC. Instead of improving the United States ability to respond to a crises like this, he spent the past three years weakening the United States ability to respond to a crises like this. Then when it broke in January, he failed to close the U.S. borders and stop international travel. Had he closed borders and stopped international travel like JAPAN and TAIWAN did in January, the United States would have numbers similar to both JAPAN and TAIWAN. The United States would not be in the middle of a crises having to receive donated mask and supplies from other countries.
Ironically, Trump may retain a lot of his supporters as the areas least effected by this crises are counties in the more rural areas which always tend to vote Republican over the past several decades. But if any of these voters are objective and care about what is happening in New York City, they will realize Trump failed and should be removed from office this year.
Wrong, again. They clearly stated this would likely be the case if it broke containment in China, which it did and already had. In other words they predicted exactly this. Could they speak to a future certainty with 100% certainty, of course not, FFS. Scientists would never do that. They couldn't do it now, they won't be able to do it at any point in the future. All they can do is offer best guess, which is exactly what they did.
And again, if you bothered to take 2 seconds to educate yourself instead of willfully ignoring things you are looking directly at and bothered to search for other similar opinions from that time period, you would find others saying the exact same things.
I knew you would respond with some BS like this despite any facts to the contrary. Facts don't matter one iota to you. If you'd bothered to read the rest of the article instead of jumping to criticize it you might find that it supports that these people predicted it would spread globally. They actually go further than that and predict that this may become endemic, ie, this will NEVER get stamped out but will become a regularly circulating disease, similar to the flu. B-B-But Trump should stop the flu!
But no, that doesn't suit your purpose so you grab something you think discounts the point, although it actually doesn't and go right back to Trump did it! Japan, Taiwain! Trump did it!
LOL. it's pathetic at this point.
You stated that it was impossible to stop and inevitable to spread everywhere. But that is not what they said. They said the following:
"SOME infectious disease experts are warning that it MAY NO LONGER BE FEASIBLE to contain the new coronavirus circulating in China."
Also, this is just a FEW of them that said this. Not a majority, or even a significant minority.
THE SUCCESS OF PREVENTION AND CONTAINMENT IN TAIWAN AND JAPAN IS IRREFUTABLE! Its a FACT. Even the scientist you site are not saying what your claiming and there is just a few of them.
What do you not understand about this
"Containing new coronavirus may not be feasible, experts say"
or this?
“The more we learn about it, the greater the possibility is that transmission will not be able to be controlled with public health measures,” said Dr. Allison McGeer, a Toronto-based infectious disease specialist who contracted SARS in 2003 and who helped Saudi Arabia control several hospital-based outbreaks of MERS.
If that’s the case, she said, “we’re living with a new human virus, and we’re going to find out if it will spread around the globe.” McGeer cautioned that because the true severity of the outbreak isn’t yet known, it’s impossible to predict what the impact of that spread would be, though she noted it would likely pose significant challenges to health care facilities."
Not feasible, not able to be controlled" "A new human virus":, get it?
here's more, although I know nothing will make it past your Orangemanbad filter
About a week after that first article
Experts envision two scenarios if the new coronavirus isn't contained
Researchers are asking what seems like a defeatist question but whose answer has huge implications for public policy: What will a world with endemic 2019-nCoV be like?
“Independent self-sustaining outbreaks [of 2019-nCoV] in major cities globally could become inevitable because of substantial exportation of pre-symptomatic cases,” scientists at the University of Hong Kong concluded in a paper published in The Lancet last week. "
In-ev-it-a-ble. Understand what that means?
substantial exportation of pre-symptomatic cases, ie, it was already here.
You're being willfully obtuse at this point. Presented facts and now apparently can't read, process information or perform some simple searches on your own to improve your own understanding of something that is shaping our world.
But hey, have fun in Taiwan! LOL.
Sorry, but you said it was IMPOSSIBLE to STOP and that it was inevitable.
1. There is a difference between saying ITS NOT FEASIBLE TO STOP THIS and MAY NOT BE FEASIBLE TO STOP THIS.
Unfortunately, you don't understand the difference.
2. Its only a FEW epidemiologist who have stated MAY NOT BE FEASIBLE TO STOP THIS.
You've presented it though in past post that ALL EPIDEMIOLOGIST say its NOT FEASIBLE TO STOP THIS.
So you've been 100% wrong on these points.
In the meantime, here are the FACTS:
UNITED STATES:
INFECTIONS: 215,334
DEATHS: 5,112
JAPAN:
INFECTIONS: 2,384
DEATHS: 57
TAIWAN:
INFECTIONS: 329
DEATHS: 5
If it was impossible to stop and inevitable, Japan and Taiwan would not have numbers that are so tiny. The numbers in Japan and Taiwan show just how wrong you were with your extreme statements that not even the people you site would agree with.
I've already pointed out that they gave their best guess while they were only beginning to learn about this new disease. And back then, again, they were predicting what was likely if the thing acted in the way we know now that it does in terms of symptomology and transmission.
Geez, you honestly can't see that. Good grief.
Being honest though, I knew exactly what you'd say, as its the only thing you could say without simply admitting you were wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence. I knew you'd never do that because you've already shown you'll ignore literally anything to keep on with your B-b-but TrumpBad! Taiwan! nonsense. Lol.
But, fine you want to play games with semantics, here's more for you to ignore. More experts, more decisive language. Now at this point in the timeline it's a few weeks later and they have a better grip on how this thing acts and what they're dealing with.
As I said, there is a ton of this out there. The logic is solid, and these people are experts whose opinions are worth more than yours any day of the week.
You aren't arguing with me and never have been. You're arguing with them. And that is flat stupid.
Hereâs why the U.S. governmentâs effort to contain the coronavirus outbreak âwas never going to be successfulâ
The public may have a false sense of security because of government efforts to contain the illness, which infectious disease experts say were unlikely to...www.marketwatch.com
Here’s why the U.S. government’s effort to contain the coronavirus outbreak ‘was never going to be successful’
60
Published: Feb. 29, 2020 at 8:15 a.m. ET
“There is a real danger in the public believing they had failed,” Adalja said. “This is a respiratory spread virus with efficient community spread and as such it’s not containable. It is not as if the containment failed, it was never going to be successful.”
is that better language for you? NEVER. Doesnt get more decisive than that.
Keep railing if you want although you're starting to look like someone that claims they're Napolean. "It's true, it's true! It really is!"
You do not have a more valid opinion than these people, who have presented their reasoning and logic and science behind them which you simply ignore, choosing instead to wallow in the ignorance of your own opinion. Sad, actually.
1. As I clearly demonstrated in the last post, you twisted the words of the people you site who are in the minority with their views.
2. Even your new link is an even more MINORITY OPINION on this issue. Most epidemiologist and governments around the world believe this can be contained and defeated and they have enacted policies to do just that.
In the meantime, here are the FACTS:
UNITED STATES:
INFECTIONS: 215,334
DEATHS: 5,113
JAPAN:
INFECTIONS: 2,384
DEATHS: 57
TAIWAN:
INFECTIONS: 329
DEATHS: 5
If every country had acted early like Japan and Taiwan did in January, they would be seeing similar rates of infection and deaths which is contained through testing, contact tracing and isolation of the infected.
When you're wrong, you're wrong, and it does not matter what your education is in or your resume. But in your case its only yourself and a minority of epidemiologist that got this wrong.
JAPAN and TAIWAN have proved that this could be stopped and contained. Every country had the capability to do the same as Japan and Taiwan, but they failed to act early enough.
If there was really nothing you could do as you claim, Japan and Taiwan would have rates of infection and deaths equal to or more than the United States given their greater exposure to China through trade and travel.
Nonsense. Now it's a 'minority' opinion. This is running rampant across the globe. We're in remediation phase at this point, which is what these measures of social distancing etc. are. It broke containment when it got loose from China and that was done before we ever knew there was a problem.
Pointing to 2 examples repeatedly while the vast majority of others are seeing similar problems is myopic at best. But Taiwain, but Japan! Why not But Spain! But France! I could easily have played that juvenile game and said my X examples trumps your 2, but instead I opted to present opinions from people that are far more qualified than you or I.
Let's look at how your logic has evolved, ie, how you've moved the goalposts as it suited your need.
1. You claimed the assertion that epidemiologists were saying this as dubious and wanted facts.
I presented them.
2. You claimed they said that this wasn't certain.
I pointed out that this was because they were dealing with a new and unknown virus and thus were giving best guess.
3. You rejected that based on semantics.
I presented more decisive language further into the timeline when scientists had developed a better idea of what they were dealing with.
4. Now you pull out of thin air, ie, just make it up with no substantiation that this is a minority opinion.
Honestly, at this point, there's no point in discussing jack with you, as you ignore and simply make up whatever you'd like and move the goalposts as necessary. It's absurd.
Stay ignorant my friend. Good grief.
1. You never presented anything, except for your last link of an epidemiologist agreeing with you assertion that it was IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP IT OR CONTAIN IT. So we have one epidemiologist that agrees with what YOU said. Nice.
2. Yep, the few you sited said it wasn't certain despite YOU claiming that they said it was certain.
3. Its not semantics when you claim something is 100% impossible to stop or contain, and the Scientist you site are clearly not saying that.
4. Its a minority opinion because most governments and departments involved with public health around the world have said this can be stopped and contained and are actively following a strategy to stop and contain the spread of the virus, WHICH YOU SAID CAN'T BE STOPPED OR CONTAINED! Oh, and siting one person who agrees with you clearly shows this is a minority opinion unless you believe that person is the worlds only epidemiologist.
How about informing yourself of some facts. Look at the latest figures from the United States, Japan and Taiwan on infections and deaths.
Every day that the disparity between the United States and Taiwan/Japan grows with infections/deaths, the deeper in the hole you get with your claim that this could not be stopped or contained.
In the meantime, here are the FACTS:
UNITED STATES:
INFECTIONS: 215,334
DEATHS: 5,113
JAPAN:
INFECTIONS: 2,384
DEATHS: 57
TAIWAN:
INFECTIONS: 329
DEATHS: 5
Not true in the least. I presented scientists from across the globe all sharing their thoughts and opinions at various phases in this thing and they've been remarkably consistent in what was likely if it broke containment, which it did, and if it was as stealthy and transmittable as they feared, and it is.
You have B-b-but Trump!
It's all you've got and it's all you've presented.
I could present many, many more examples, but it's pointless. You don't see what you don't want to see and will adjust your requirements as necessary and flat out make stuff up as you see fit.
Have fun in Tokyo. Their cases are up today, BTW, so make sure you bring your PPE....
