Health Care as a Human Right

[midcan5]

I was just arguing this exact point in the other thread.


"We Are Not Free - Health Care as a Human Right"
By Helen Redmond

"At the core of the idea that health care is a human right is freedom. The for-profit health care system in the United States severely restricts our freedom in a number of subtle and not so subtle ways. Instead of freedom there is fear.

The health care crisis impacts every aspect of our lives down to the most seemingly insignificant personal decisions we make. This national bully terrorizes and forces us to live in fear. It determines what is possible and not possible, it crushes hopes and dreams and imprisons people into lives they did not choose. For decades in this country we have accepted the barbaric consequences of a profit driven health care system that bullies and denies us basic freedoms. Therefore, we are not free."

http://www.counterpunch.org/redmond02212008.html

 

[CrpRavens30]

Health Care is not a human right..

 

[Taomon]

Health Care is not a human right..

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.


This doesn't explicitely state that health care is a right, but it also does not state that we must be subject to economic servitude to healthcare.

I am not so sure that healthcare should be free for all citizens. I would be happy if it were just affordable.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.


This doesn't explicitely state that health care is a right, but it also does not state that we must be subject to economic servitude to healthcare.

I am not so sure that healthcare should be free for all citizens. I would be happy if it were just affordable.

Hey bozo, we live under United States law - not UN "law".

 

[Diuretic]

Health Care is not a human right..

Why not?

 

[Taomon]

Hey bozo, we live under United States law - not UN "law".

Who do you think wrote that law?

 

[Taomon]

Hey bozo, we live under United States law - not UN "law".

So, do you believe that it is good for private industry to fleece working class people for necessary medical care & drugs?

 

[CrpRavens30]

So, do you believe that it is good for private industry to fleece working class people for necessary medical care & drugs?

How are they fleecing the people? If anyone is at fault for the rising healthcare costs its the lawyers..

 

[Taomon]

How are they fleecing the people? If anyone is at fault for the rising healthcare costs its the lawyers..

No, the rising cost of healthcare is due to two factors. Corporate Greed and Pharmaceutical Companies.

I worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield for three years. Each year the premiums and costs went up. Each year more was taken out of our checks to pay for the Blue Cross Insurance. Each year, the CEOs gave themselves substantial bonuses. This is a greed factor.

Pharmaceutical Companies have not been developing new drugs to cover the patents that are expiring. So they are charging more.

Deregulation on price controls have made it easier for companies to charge whatever they want and there is nothing that consumers can do. The deregulation was put into place so that companies can competitively price...and the prices were projected to drop. But the prices have skyrocketed because there is no oversight. And consumers have only two options, buy it or not.

Unless you live in MA where it is against the law to not purchase health insurance. Thank God Romney is no longer a presidential candidate.

Malpractice lawsuits do not drive the cost of insurance up. That is a myth. If we take away the right to sue for malpractice, the consumer will be at the mercy of doctors who are incompetent or fraudulent.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Who do you think wrote that law?

A bunch of do-gooders who originally meant well who wished to investigate gross human rights violations around the world - but who now have been taken over by a bunch of not-so-do-gooders who are anti-American one world order socialists who wish to expand their control.

If you think that lack of socialized medicine is a gross human rights violation you have been brainwashed.

So, do you believe that it is good for private industry to fleece working class people for necessary medical care & drugs?

The fleecing is a result of the interference of many - lawyers, government regulations, insurance companies, immigration practices, employers, and other third parties that exist in our health care system. We need to get the bloodsuckers out of the system and allow a free market system to flourish. Costs will plummet when individuals directly pay for and control their own health care.

We can head in that direction with the use of HSAs and catastrophic insurance.

 

[William Joyce]

If "healthcare" is a human right, why not housing, clothing, food, education... why not communism, straight up, no chaser? Obama and Hillary and McCain all play footsie with it, why not just get buck naked and f*ck? It would blow away that tiresome tension between freedom and total state control that just gets everyone confused.

 

[Detmurds]

No place in the US Constitution does it say that Free Health Care is a right for Americans! Enough Said!

 

[Taomon]

A bunch of do-gooders who originally meant well who wished to investigate gross human rights violations around the world - but who now have been taken over by a bunch of not-so-do-gooders who are anti-American one world order socialists who wish to expand their control.

If you think that lack of socialized medicine is a gross human rights violation you have been brainwashed.

The fleecing is a result of the interference of many - lawyers, government regulations, insurance companies, immigration practices, employers, and other third parties that exist in our health care system. We need to get the bloodsuckers out of the system and allow a free market system to flourish. Costs will plummet when individuals directly pay for and control their own health care.

We can head in that direction with the use of HSAs and catastrophic insurance.

Who is the blind one here? Do you really think Private Industry has your best interest in mind or the maximization of share values in mind? Seriously, we need more regulation and price controls. We need lawyers and consumer rights in cases of negligence. Who is the blind one here? You sound like a Bush sound bite.

 

[Taomon]

If "healthcare" is a human right, why not housing, clothing, food, education... why not communism, straight up, no chaser? Obama and Hillary and McCain all play footsie with it, why not just get buck naked and f*ck? It would blow away that tiresome tension between freedom and total state control that just gets everyone confused.

I don't believe communism is the answer. Price controls and subsidies are. If necessities like housing, clothing, food and healthcare were simply affordable there would be no need to raise minimum wage and the quality of life would be elevated.

Then, and only then, we could begin to make positives changes in the world by example and foreign policy.

 

[Taomon]

No place in the US Constitution does it say that Free Health Care is a right for Americans! Enough Said!

No where in the Constitution does it say that private industry can charge any price they want for a necessary item such as healthcare, housing, utilities, clothing, food & education.

Enough said!

 

[jillian]

How are they fleecing the people? If anyone is at fault for the rising healthcare costs its the lawyers..

That's a lie perpetuated by the AMA and insurance industries.

1) people don't bring malpractice cases that don't have a basis because they're too expensive.

2) after bringing a med mal case, most states require you to go through a panel to determine merit.

3) if someone does damage to you or yours because of medical malpractice (which can't be something that's an anticipated side effect or danger or a particular treatment) it is likely that the damage they cause will result in death or severe injury which could require lifetime care...

the same rules are true for a products liability case except that they don't usually have to go through a panel first.

so tell me again why a doctor's liability should be limited to $250,000 when he can cause millions of dollars worth of damage.

oh and a case having merit doesn't mean that you automatically win in court. If you lose, it just means you didn't convince the trier of fact.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Who is the blind one here? Do you really think Private Industry has your best interest in mind or the maximization of share values in mind? Seriously, we need more regulation and price controls. We need lawyers and consumer rights in cases of negligence. Who is the blind one here? You sound like a Bush sound bite.

I believe you are the blind one here since you think it is a "human right" to have socialized medicine. You believe the government should take over an entire private industry. Where in the Constitution does it say the government should run private industry? Where does it say health care is a "human right"?

The only right you have is to freely pursue good health care for your own happiness and well-being. That can happen in a free market. Please stop falling for the ignorant liberal socialist mantra that private industry is the source of all evil. Yes, private industry has profit as its prime motive….there is absolutely nothing inherently "evil" in that. When corps and govt mix is when you typically get the "evil" actions.

When you have a free market, competition will exist and you, the consumer, gets to choose among various competitive services and prices instead of being fed one option via the socialized rubber stamp approach. Of course you have to pay for those health services….or do you think it's your "human right" to get them for "free"? Give me a break. Socialized medicine is NOT free either. Plus you wind up with no control over your own health care...you essentially go on the "government dole" because they (the govt pinheads) determine what you "should" have and what you "shouldn't"...in other words, no more free CHOICE. (and here i thought you libs were all about "choice")

We need more deregulation to get the government and other bloodsucking third parties OUTof the health care industry. When products and services exist in a competitive and free market the customer always benefits.

Of course your next beef is what about the poor who can't even pay the lower costs? There will always be a small minority who cannot pay and these people must depend upon charity - which is abundant in a free and prosperous society. However, most hardworking people can afford decent health care in a free market. That used to be the case here in the U.S. but ever since government and other gouging third parties got involved, prices have escalated. Getting rid of them is our challenge and the solution to our health care crisis, not expanding government interference.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Of course your next beef is what about the poor who can't even pay the lower costs? There will always be a small minority who cannot pay and these people must depend upon charity - which is abundant in a free and prosperous society. However, most hardworking people can afford decent health care in a free market. That used to be the case here in the U.S. but ever since government and other gouging third parties got involved, prices have escalated. Getting rid of them is our challenge and the solution to our health care crisis, not expanding government interference.

The poor people are the one's universal health care was designed for. Private industry cannot handle our health care needs. Capitalism is nice and all, but in moderation. To take a line from clinton "we need to stop letting the insurance companies decide who lives and who dies in this country". Charity is no where near enough of the help these people need. If we already had enough charity, then there wouldn't even be talk about universal health care.

 

[Alpha1]

That's a lie perpetuated by the AMA and insurance industries.

1) people don't bring malpractice cases that don't have a basis because they're too expensive.

2) after bringing a med mal case, most states require you to go through a panel to determine merit.

3) if someone does damage to you or yours because of medical malpractice (which can't be something that's an anticipated side effect or danger or a particular treatment) it is likely that the damage they cause will result in death or severe injury which could require lifetime care...

the same rules are true for a products liability case except that they don't usually have to go through a panel first.

so tell me again why a doctor's liability should be limited to $250,000 when he can cause millions of dollars worth of damage.

oh and a case having merit doesn't mean that you automatically win in court. If you lose, it just means you didn't convince the trier of fact.

Well...if you ever develop a tumor....go see a lawyer.....

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The poor people are the one's universal health care was designed for. Private industry cannot handle our health care needs. Capitalism is nice and all, but in moderation. To take a line from clinton "we need to stop letting the insurance companies decide who lives and who dies in this country". Charity is no where near enough of the help these people need. If we already had enough charity, then there wouldn't even be talk about universal health care.

Only 12% of the population is poor. Skyrocketing health care costs are affecting the lives of more than just the poor. The reason for skyrocketing health care costs is because third parties are getting in the way of the private health care industry. There are too many layers of bureaucracy. Without interference, private industry CAN handle our health care needs.

I agree with that line of Clinton. We absolutely need to get the insurance companies out of our health care decisions. However, we do NOT need to substitute government control in place of the insurance companies. Government already has too much of a hand in the health care business and it is NOT doing a good job...just take a gander at Medicare. Medicare is essentially the same as socialized medicine. We need to put the control back into the hands of the consumer. For that we need a free market without so many controls.

Charity could come from government aid, like in the form of health care vouchers to the poor who qualify for it.
There is absolutely no reason to become a socialist state just to cater to 12% of the population. You bleeding heart liberals are just suckers for the socialists who have the ulterior goal to control you.