Health Care (A simpler solution)

[Darkwind]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

 

[Meister]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

The basic foundation is a solid one, good blueprint for coverage.

One thing that's not taken into account is that it's not about good healthcare coverage, it's about government controlled coverage. There lies the rub

 

[wvpeach]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

Pretty much the same as medical savings accounts , which you can open now if you want and save money for medical care tax free. Still costs $600-$1200 a month for real health insurance . Something people making minimum wage or even $10 a hour simply cannot afford.

Let me guess darkwind ......... your a ron paul supporter ?

Am I right?

You people all sound alike . Kind of nonsensical and wishful.
No basis in reality.

 

[WillowTree]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

The basic foundation is a solid one, good blueprint for coverage.

One thing that's not taken into account is that it's not about good healthcare coverage, it's about government controlled coverage. There lies the rub

It's about saving the unions money as well.

 

[Darkwind]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

The basic foundation is a solid one, good blueprint for coverage.

One thing that's not taken into account is that it's not about good healthcare coverage, it's about government controlled coverage. There lies the rub

That is the beauty of My plan. The only government involvement is a law that makes it mandatory to set aside a specified percentage of a persons income for a health savings account.

The government would not be permitted to have access to the monies at all.

Of course, that would make it a deal breaker for every politician.

 

[Darkwind]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

The basic foundation is a solid one, good blueprint for coverage.

One thing that's not taken into account is that it's not about good healthcare coverage, it's about government controlled coverage. There lies the rub

It's about saving the unions money as well.

To My way of thinking, the unions don't really have a say. After all, we are talking about a system that helps everyone have an ability to pay for their health needs.

 

[Darkwind]

Pretty much the same as medical savings accounts , which you can open now if you want and save money for medical care tax free. Still costs $600-$1200 a month for real health insurance . Something people making minimum wage or even $10 a hour simply cannot afford.

Let me guess darkwind ......... your a ron paul supporter ?

Am I right?

You people all sound alike . Kind of nonsensical and wishful.
No basis in reality.

Surprise surprise. I am not a ron paul supporter. So you are wrong in two instances.

The reality is that the government cannot supply health coverage for every American, and that IS based in reality.

The real need is to get people to provide for their own health needs and quite frankly. If you cannot afford the 600 to 800 per year for catistrophic health coverage you should be doing more to improve your position in life.

Sitting back for decades at a time on 10 dollars per hour is no ones fault but your own.

A health savings account can get very large if started at a young age (as soon as you enter the work force) and the truth is, people should be paying out of pocket for their preventative health needs. A medical savings account can provide just that.

 

[auditor0007]

Pretty much the same as medical savings accounts , which you can open now if you want and save money for medical care tax free. Still costs $600-$1200 a month for real health insurance . Something people making minimum wage or even $10 a hour simply cannot afford.

Let me guess darkwind ......... your a ron paul supporter ?

Am I right?

You people all sound alike . Kind of nonsensical and wishful.
No basis in reality.

Surprise surprise. I am not a ron paul supporter. So you are wrong in two instances.

The reality is that the government cannot supply health coverage for every American, and that IS based in reality.

The real need is to get people to provide for their own health needs and quite frankly. If you cannot afford the 600 to 800 per year for catistrophic health coverage you should be doing more to improve your position in life.

Sitting back for decades at a time on 10 dollars per hour is no ones fault but your own.

A health savings account can get very large if started at a young age (as soon as you enter the work force) and the truth is, people should be paying out of pocket for their preventative health needs. A medical savings account can provide just that.

This would work for most so long as you could not be denied for the catastrophic insurance. Without a doubt, it would make much more sense to pay out of pocket for everyday medical care. Prices would be much more competetive that way. But I can guarantee that the insurance companies would fight this also.

 

[Emma]

I like my plan better. It solves all our problems.

 

[Diuretic]

Pretty much the same as medical savings accounts , which you can open now if you want and save money for medical care tax free. Still costs $600-$1200 a month for real health insurance . Something people making minimum wage or even $10 a hour simply cannot afford.

Let me guess darkwind ......... your a ron paul supporter ?

Am I right?

You people all sound alike . Kind of nonsensical and wishful.
No basis in reality.

Surprise surprise. I am not a ron paul supporter. So you are wrong in two instances.

The reality is that the government cannot supply health coverage for every American, and that IS based in reality.

The real need is to get people to provide for their own health needs and quite frankly. If you cannot afford the 600 to 800 per year for catistrophic health coverage you should be doing more to improve your position in life.

Sitting back for decades at a time on 10 dollars per hour is no ones fault but your own.

A health savings account can get very large if started at a young age (as soon as you enter the work force) and the truth is, people should be paying out of pocket for their preventative health needs. A medical savings account can provide just that.

Well we're snotty aren't we?

If you cannot afford the 600 to 800 per year for catistrophic health coverage you should be doing more to improve your position in life.



Sitting back for decades at a time on 10 dollars per hour is no ones fault but your own.



Your plan is fucked chum, it just won't work in reality.

The richest country in the world, the world's biggest economy, can't provide for the health care of its citizens?

Really?



I don't think so!

 

[auditor0007]

Pretty much the same as medical savings accounts , which you can open now if you want and save money for medical care tax free. Still costs $600-$1200 a month for real health insurance . Something people making minimum wage or even $10 a hour simply cannot afford.

Let me guess darkwind ......... your a ron paul supporter ?

Am I right?

You people all sound alike . Kind of nonsensical and wishful.
No basis in reality.

Surprise surprise. I am not a ron paul supporter. So you are wrong in two instances.

The reality is that the government cannot supply health coverage for every American, and that IS based in reality.

The real need is to get people to provide for their own health needs and quite frankly. If you cannot afford the 600 to 800 per year for catistrophic health coverage you should be doing more to improve your position in life.

Sitting back for decades at a time on 10 dollars per hour is no ones fault but your own.

A health savings account can get very large if started at a young age (as soon as you enter the work force) and the truth is, people should be paying out of pocket for their preventative health needs. A medical savings account can provide just that.

Well we're snotty aren't we?

If you cannot afford the 600 to 800 per year for catistrophic health coverage you should be doing more to improve your position in life.



Sitting back for decades at a time on 10 dollars per hour is no ones fault but your own.



Your plan is fucked chum, it just won't work in reality.

The richest country in the world, the world's biggest economy, can't provide for the health care of its citizens?

Really?



I don't think so!

Probably the only real way to bring down healthcare costs in the US is by making the field more competetive. Adding more insurance options, even if one of them is the government, won't lead to lower costs through competetion. The competetion must come from those who actually provide the healthcare, and the only way to do that is to remove all the obstacles, and the main obstacle is the insurance companies and insurance plans.

Following is an example of some of my health costs. I need regular phlebotomies to reduce my iron levels due to hemochromatosis.

Q: What is the cost of treatment? Will my insurance pay for this?

A: Treatment, known as phlebotomy or bloodletting, which is identical to a blood donation at a blood bank, ranges in cost (in U.S. dollars) per treatment as follows: a.) Blood bank (community blood bank)=$30.00 to $200.00 per treatment b.) Doctor's office=$200.00 to $400.00 per treatment c.) Hospital/outpatient=$400.00 to $1400.00 per treatment You will have to check with your individual insurance company to determine coverage. Although the blood banks are the least expensive, insurance usually does not cover phlebotomy cost at a blood bank (Medicare does not cover blood bank treatments, yet will cover treatment by a doctor), however, it will cover phlebotomy treatment at the much high rates in the doctor's office or hospital. It is odd that insurance would not cover the least expensive procedure and hopefully this will change in the future. The new oral chelator, ExJade, is made by Novartis. Patients interested in more information about ExJade should contact the company and ask about pricing and possible assistance with the cost of the medication.

Untitled Document

As to the reference to blood banks, many will not provide phlebotomies even if you pay for them. Secondly, people such as myself will not go to a blood bank for the simple reason that blood banks are required to follow certain procedures that are not conducive to giving the best treatment to hemochromatosis patients. The biggest problem is that blood banks must use 16 guage needles, and they cannot deviate from this. 16 guage needles are used for blood removal for blood donation. A 16 guage needle is very large and must be used as smaller needles will destroy whole red blood cells. The thing is that blood taken from a hemochromatosis patient is not used for donation. It is disposed of, so the size of the needle is not important. It is important to the hemochromatosis patient however. In my case, I had 90 phelebotomies over 18 months. That is one every six days. Usually, it was every fifth day. Using a large needle would have severely scarred my veins making future phlebotomies more difficult. So basically, the cheapest option is the worst option.

Now, when looking at the other options, you will see that the cost still varies a great deal. Doctor's who provide phlebotomies in house can do it fairly cheap. In fact, I just found one who will do it for $75 in house for cash. When I had insurance, my insurance company was paying the hospital $375 for each phlebotomy, and as you can see, some hospitals charge up to $1400. That is $1400 for a $75 treatment. And the cause of this? The insurance companies don't even know how to look for the best deals. Yes, they work out deals with doctors and hospitals to pay a lower percentage of the total bill, but in the end, they don't help keep costs down, and they certainly don't create any competetion between care providers.

Without a doubt, getting people to pay out of pocket for basic, and even some not so basic, services is the only way we will reduce costs.

That being said, we still need universal coverage for catastrophic and chronic conditions that are expensive to treat. These are the things that bankrupt so many people, even those with insurance in many cases. As for the truly poor, there could still be government programs to help with basic care.

 

[wvpeach]

Some people really are dense as a box of rocks and I don't bother wasting time with them.

 

[The T]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

Agreed. Healthcare is a commodity. An individual responsibility. Not a right by any stretch of the imagination.

I like the plan here. And it is time to get Government out of this, once and for all.

 

[auditor0007]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

Agreed. Healthcare is a commodity. An individual responsibility. Not a right by any stretch of the imagination.

I like the plan here. And it is time to get Government out of this, once and for all.

The health of a nation is a societal issue. Yes, there needs to be individual responsibility. However, there is also a responsibility by society to see to the needs of everyone whether it is by making access easier and more affordable or by any means necessary. This is why we have programs such as Medicare. And the truth is, without Medicare, the majority of seniors in this country would be without adequate healthcare and would die much sooner than necessary.

And remember one thing; the goverenment isn't the boogie man. It serves the people and has been put in place by the people. If the majority of those people decide that national healthcare is in their best interest, then the goverenment will be part of that plan. Anyone who supports or is against anything that goverenment does has the right to vote for change. So whether or not someone's healthcare is a commodity or a right is a decision to be made by the bulk of society, not by any one individual.

 

[The T]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

Agreed. Healthcare is a commodity. An individual responsibility. Not a right by any stretch of the imagination.

I like the plan here. And it is time to get Government out of this, once and for all.

The health of a nation is a societal issue. Yes, there needs to be individual responsibility. However, there is also a responsibility by society to see to the needs of everyone whether it is by making access easier and more affordable or by any means necessary. This is why we have programs such as Medicare. And the truth is, without Medicare, the majority of seniors in this country would be without adequate healthcare and would die much sooner than necessary.

And remember one thing; the goverenment isn't the boogie man. It serves the people and has been put in place by the people. If the majority of those people decide that national healthcare is in their best interest, then the goverenment will be part of that plan. Anyone who supports or is against anything that goverenment does has the right to vote for change. So whether or not someone's healthcare is a commodity or a right is a decision to be made by the bulk of society, not by any one individual.

Remember in the day we had CHARITIES for this/ WHY does Government even have to be involved?

Or do you feel more comfortable to FORCE people to give it up?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[code1211]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

So this is government health care period. If the payroll deduction operates exactly as does the Social security payroll deduction, it is Government, socialized health care.

Currently, the charges for any procedure great or small are set by the hospitals and then negotiated down by the insurance companies. Beyond that is the phrase "reasonable and customary" which is the normal cost of procedures of any type from a bruised elbow to a Hip replacement.

These are devices used by insurance companies to reduce the costs charged by Hospitals and health conglomerates.

On NPR the other day, there was a discussion that compared health care to any other industry and the one that they thought was closest was Auto repair. Complex machines that we don't know much about with reelatively standard procedures and costs that may or may not be real.

Of course you can unload the '99 Taurus when the cost is too high and may feel a tad more attached to your daughter.

The insurance companies are not the bad guys here. The hospitals are the guys who keep raising the prices of everything that they do. The insurance companies have found a way to pay for these things.

Why not be angry at the people who charge the tripling rates?

 

[The T]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

So this is government health care period. If the payroll deduction operates exactly as does the Social security payroll deduction, it is Government, socialized health care.

Currently, the charges for any procedure great or small are set by the hospitals and then negotiated down by the insurance companies. Beyond that is the phrase "reasonable and customary" which is the normal cost of procedures of any type from a bruised elbow to a Hip replacement.

These are devices used by insurance companies to reduce the costs charged by Hospitals and health conglomerates.

On NPR the other day, there was a discussion that compared health care to any other industry and the one that they thought was closest was Auto repair. Complex machines that we don't know much about with reelatively standard procedures and costs that may or may not be real.

Of course you can unload the '99 Taurus when the cost is too high and may feel a tad more attached to your daughter.

The insurance companies are not the bad guys here. The hospitals are the guys who keep raising the prices of everything that they do. The insurance companies have found a way to pay for these things.

Why not be angry at the people who charge the tripling rates?

And why do they raise their rates? Think Trickle UP with their staff...(Doctors, Nurses, Staff), that have to protect themselves from MALPRACTICE...

Hospitals MUST do the same, in-kind protection so they won't go out of business...

You are in effect on the right track, but a bit misguided in my view...

Key here? TORT REFORM. This is where Government is KEY. Advise/Demand by LAW that any Suit MUST be solid by any complaintant, lest they PAY all costs of such Court Proceeding/Suit...

 

[Diuretic]

So, what are the key requirements that Mr. Obama keeps talking about (Though if he read the bills, he'd see that none of his talking points are being met) and that you progressives want?

Portability:

1. Keeping your health coverage if you lose your jobs.
2. Moving a health coverage you like to your new employer.
3. I can use My health coverage anywhere in the United States.

Affordability:

a. The Dream;

1. Costs nothing to anyone but the rich.
2. Costs nothing to anyone but employers

b. The Practical;

1. A low cost plan (as of yet, low cost is undefined by anyone)

Pre-existing Conditions:

1. I cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition.
2. I cannot be denied coverage if I develop a serious condition


Does that about cover it?

As it stands now, we can accomplish all of this with the absolute MINIMUM of government intervention into our lives without having to bankrupt our country or put our grandchildren into a 100k dollar debt before they are even born!

The legislation would also be pretty straight forward, requiring no more then 15 to 25 pages just to be sure the loop-holes are closed.

That plan would be a mandatory payroll deduction of a percentage of your weekly/bi-weekly/monthly pay into a Health Savings Account. And it is tax deductible.

This account would be strictly controlled by you and the investment of the money would be determined by you with the caveat that you could not invest in high risk stocks.

This account would go with you no matter who was your employer (much like you social security) and since you would be paying cash from this account for services rendered (with the exception of catastrophic care) you simply cannot be turned down for a pre-existing condition. It is, after all, your money.

But the best part of this is.......


The law would be written in such a way that No Politician from any level of government would be allowed access to this money. It would require everyone to participate and would lower medical costs because the insurance companies would be pretty much eliminated from the equation with the exception of the catastrophic care that would still need to be funded by the individual.

Agreed. Healthcare is a commodity. An individual responsibility. Not a right by any stretch of the imagination.

I like the plan here. And it is time to get Government out of this, once and for all.

But is health care a commodity by its nature or has it been made a commodity? And should it be a commodity or should it be made available in a form other than a commodity?

 

[Diuretic]

Agreed. Healthcare is a commodity. An individual responsibility. Not a right by any stretch of the imagination.

I like the plan here. And it is time to get Government out of this, once and for all.

The health of a nation is a societal issue. Yes, there needs to be individual responsibility. However, there is also a responsibility by society to see to the needs of everyone whether it is by making access easier and more affordable or by any means necessary. This is why we have programs such as Medicare. And the truth is, without Medicare, the majority of seniors in this country would be without adequate healthcare and would die much sooner than necessary.

And remember one thing; the goverenment isn't the boogie man. It serves the people and has been put in place by the people. If the majority of those people decide that national healthcare is in their best interest, then the goverenment will be part of that plan. Anyone who supports or is against anything that goverenment does has the right to vote for change. So whether or not someone's healthcare is a commodity or a right is a decision to be made by the bulk of society, not by any one individual.

Remember in the day we had CHARITIES for this/ WHY does Government even have to be involved?

Or do you feel more comfortable to FORCE people to give it up?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Charities? What role should charities have?

 

[The T]

The health of a nation is a societal issue. Yes, there needs to be individual responsibility. However, there is also a responsibility by society to see to the needs of everyone whether it is by making access easier and more affordable or by any means necessary. This is why we have programs such as Medicare. And the truth is, without Medicare, the majority of seniors in this country would be without adequate healthcare and would die much sooner than necessary.

And remember one thing; the goverenment isn't the boogie man. It serves the people and has been put in place by the people. If the majority of those people decide that national healthcare is in their best interest, then the goverenment will be part of that plan. Anyone who supports or is against anything that goverenment does has the right to vote for change. So whether or not someone's healthcare is a commodity or a right is a decision to be made by the bulk of society, not by any one individual.

Remember in the day we had CHARITIES for this/ WHY does Government even have to be involved?

Or do you feel more comfortable to FORCE people to give it up?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Charities? What role should charities have?

Apparently YOU are a young PUP, and don't remember the time where services were rendered Pro Bono for the sake of charity. Now the Gubmint calls them "Not For Profits"...

And where does Government come off getting into this fray anyhow>?

Constitutionally? They (Gubmint), are OUT OF BOUNDS. They do all of this for the sake of Control over the rest of us, as to deprive us of Liberty...