CDZ Guns and the Second Admendment

Slyhunter

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ok, another school shooting shows us that we need to make changes in how we do things around here.

We have limited choices. We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership which would require building a lot more prison and shoot outs as we take the guns away from what used to be law abiding citizens. This would require first getting 3/4 of Congress to get rid of the second amendment. Whether you think this is the only viable choice or not you have to admit it isn't realistic because you are not going to convince 3/4 of Congress to vote this way.

We could turn all our schools into fortraces. But then they would just go somewhere else, like a football stadium, a court house, or a bus stop.

It looks like we have to arm the populace. Make it legal for everyone to go armed everywhere. Individuals would be free to chose not to arm themselves. This would insure nobody's freedoms will be violated, but could create other problems. This works in Israel. And I believe is the only realistic albit unpalatable choice.
 

pismoe

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ok, another school shooting shows us that we need to make changes in how we do things around here.

We have limited choices. We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership which would require building a lot more prison and shoot outs as we take the guns away from what used to be law abiding citizens. This would require first getting 3/4 of Congress to get rid of the second amendment. Whether you think this is the only viable choice or not you have to admit it isn't realistic because you are not going to convince 3/4 of Congress to vote this way.

We could turn all our schools into fortraces. But then they would just go somewhere else, like a football stadium, a court house, or a bus stop.

It looks like we have to arm the populace. Make it legal for everyone to go armed everywhere. Individuals would be free to chose not to arm themselves. This would insure nobody's freedoms will be violated, but could create other problems. This works in Israel. And I believe is the only realistic albit unpalatable choice.
---------------------------------- i like your post and thinking SLyhunter ,
 

Porter Rockwell

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There are many other choices; however, as one radio talk show host said this past week he does not discuss abortion nor gun control as everybody gets their feelings hurt and nobody's minds are changed.

The reality is for liberals is that the United States Supreme Court has ruled that the Right to keep and bear Arms is an "individual Right." Unless the liberals can amend the Constitution and change the Second Amendment, they would have to pull their heads out of their rectums and work with gun owners to really solve the problem. Here is the dilemma:

School shootings are about children being shot - or so you would think. So, parents want their children safe; liberals are only concerned with gun control. If the solution (s) proffered are not about gun control, liberals are not interested. I just did this debate on a liberal forum and after nearly 200 replies, not one liberal indicated ANY INTEREST in reducing gun violence without gun control.

Gun bans don't work; they only work to undermine the Second Amendment by banning them one category at a time until no firearms exist. Background checks don't work because it's tantamount to closing the barn door AFTER the cows have gotten out. Other proposals cannot be taken seriously either as they only create bureaucracies that are ineffective.

There is a solution. Unfortunately, it will not fit on a bumper sticker; it won't fit onto a Tweet; there is no "sum it up for me" as this is a highly complex issue involving cultural issues, constitutional issues, legal issues and presenting ideas that have never been considered. It would take me about ten posts of nearly a dozen paragraphs each just to summarize it, but it would deal with identifying and dealing with potential shooters before they committed an act of violence. It would involve a civil intervention that protects the constitutional Rights of others. I would admonish gun owners to consider it, because without some alternative idea that the liberals cannot oppose, more shootings are inevitable and it becomes fodder for the inevitable and incremental erosion of the Second Amendment.
 

M14 Shooter

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We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership
We could turn all our schools into fortraces.
This is a false dichotomy - there are choices other than these.

The -best- way to deal with mass shootings, including school shootings, is to get rid of gun-free zones -- they do not stop the shootings and ensure the victims are unable to defend themselves. Indeed. GFZs only raise the body count, as is their purpose.
 

Old Man Grumbles

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Porter, why not type it up and send it to every member of Congress and every member of your state legislators?
 

BlackFlag

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ok, another school shooting shows us that we need to make changes in how we do things around here.

We have limited choices. We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership which would require building a lot more prison and shoot outs as we take the guns away from what used to be law abiding citizens. This would require first getting 3/4 of Congress to get rid of the second amendment. Whether you think this is the only viable choice or not you have to admit it isn't realistic because you are not going to convince 3/4 of Congress to vote this way.

We could turn all our schools into fortraces. But then they would just go somewhere else, like a football stadium, a court house, or a bus stop.

It looks like we have to arm the populace. Make it legal for everyone to go armed everywhere. Individuals would be free to chose not to arm themselves. This would insure nobody's freedoms will be violated, but could create other problems. This works in Israel. And I believe is the only realistic albit unpalatable choice.
The best argument against gun control in this country is that it’s too late for us. There are over 400 million guns in this country, and nobody knows where they are or who has them. Cities can pass gun control, but there are 400 million guns surrounding them. It’s too late. Gun nuts won. Might as well arm yourself.
 

Staidhup

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What the hell do guns have to do with the issue of gun violence? At what point do you face the reality that it’s the person pulling the trigger? I guess for some they are unwilling to hold the person pulling the trigger accountable and those utilizing common sense that follow the law as guilty simply because they exercise their constitutional rights. This argument reminds me of the case whereby the person that rear ended a ford pinto, in violation of the speed limit, resulting in a fire and death, is held only partially guilty for speeding, while at the same time holding the manufacturer of the ford pinto guilty for manufacturing a car with the knowledge that if said vehicle was rear ended at high speed it would rupture the fuel tank resulting in a fire.
Face it this country is nuts!
 

Old Man Grumbles

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It's interesting that the outcry only comes with murders committed with a firearm, wherein the firearm is held responsible. Yet, in other murders committed with any weapon not a firearm, the person committing the murder is held responsible.
 

2aguy

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ok, another school shooting shows us that we need to make changes in how we do things around here.

We have limited choices. We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership which would require building a lot more prison and shoot outs as we take the guns away from what used to be law abiding citizens. This would require first getting 3/4 of Congress to get rid of the second amendment. Whether you think this is the only viable choice or not you have to admit it isn't realistic because you are not going to convince 3/4 of Congress to vote this way.

We could turn all our schools into fortraces. But then they would just go somewhere else, like a football stadium, a court house, or a bus stop.

It looks like we have to arm the populace. Make it legal for everyone to go armed everywhere. Individuals would be free to chose not to arm themselves. This would insure nobody's freedoms will be violated, but could create other problems. This works in Israel. And I believe is the only realistic albit unpalatable choice.
The best argument against gun control in this country is that it’s too late for us. There are over 400 million guns in this country, and nobody knows where they are or who has them. Cities can pass gun control, but there are 400 million guns surrounding them. It’s too late. Gun nuts won. Might as well arm yourself.

The best argument for allowing people to own guns is exactly this country......the Europeans disarmed their people and the socialists murdered 12 million unarmed men, women and children.......and yet people like you forget all about that........

And meanwhile....here in the U.S.....as more people own and carry guns...

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%


Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
 

2aguy

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It's interesting that the outcry only comes with murders committed with a firearm, wherein the firearm is held responsible. Yet, in other murders committed with any weapon not a firearm, the person committing the murder is held responsible.

Their numbers are going to go up......our gun murder rate didn't go up until the mid 1960s when the Great Society began to destroy the nuclear family.........it led to increased murder rates going into the 1990s....the Europeans are now at the point where their welfare states have destroyed their nuclear families...with single teenage girls raising young males from multiple fathers......and where they now have hostile, immigrant populations who don't share European values about violence.......

They are at the point we were at going into the 1960s.....you can see it with their knife murder rates...........it will eventually lead to more gun murder.......
 

Lesh

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ok, another school shooting shows us that we need to make changes in how we do things around here.

We have limited choices. We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership which would require building a lot more prison and shoot outs as we take the guns away from what used to be law abiding citizens. This would require first getting 3/4 of Congress to get rid of the second amendment. Whether you think this is the only viable choice or not you have to admit it isn't realistic because you are not going to convince 3/4 of Congress to vote this way.

We could turn all our schools into fortraces. But then they would just go somewhere else, like a football stadium, a court house, or a bus stop.

It looks like we have to arm the populace. Make it legal for everyone to go armed everywhere. Individuals would be free to chose not to arm themselves. This would insure nobody's freedoms will be violated, but could create other problems. This works in Israel. And I believe is the only realistic albit unpalatable choice.
The best argument against gun control in this country is that it’s too late for us. There are over 400 million guns in this country, and nobody knows where they are or who has them. Cities can pass gun control, but there are 400 million guns surrounding them. It’s too late. Gun nuts won. Might as well arm yourself.

That's the WORST argument.

Most of these mass shootings happen with guns that were recently purchased
 

2aguy

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ok, another school shooting shows us that we need to make changes in how we do things around here.

We have limited choices. We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership which would require building a lot more prison and shoot outs as we take the guns away from what used to be law abiding citizens. This would require first getting 3/4 of Congress to get rid of the second amendment. Whether you think this is the only viable choice or not you have to admit it isn't realistic because you are not going to convince 3/4 of Congress to vote this way.

We could turn all our schools into fortraces. But then they would just go somewhere else, like a football stadium, a court house, or a bus stop.

It looks like we have to arm the populace. Make it legal for everyone to go armed everywhere. Individuals would be free to chose not to arm themselves. This would insure nobody's freedoms will be violated, but could create other problems. This works in Israel. And I believe is the only realistic albit unpalatable choice.
The best argument against gun control in this country is that it’s too late for us. There are over 400 million guns in this country, and nobody knows where they are or who has them. Cities can pass gun control, but there are 400 million guns surrounding them. It’s too late. Gun nuts won. Might as well arm yourself.

That's the WORST argument.

Most of these mass shootings happen with guns that were recently purchased

Legally purchased going through current, federally mandated background checks, which means the shooter would be able to pass any universal check for a private firearm sale,.......making universal background checks pointless........and the only reason they want universal background checks is so that when they don't stop criminals from getting guns, so when they don't stop mass public shooters from getting guns....the anit-gunners will come back and demand universal gun registration....which is their real goal...
 

2aguy

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ok, another school shooting shows us that we need to make changes in how we do things around here.

We have limited choices. We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership which would require building a lot more prison and shoot outs as we take the guns away from what used to be law abiding citizens. This would require first getting 3/4 of Congress to get rid of the second amendment. Whether you think this is the only viable choice or not you have to admit it isn't realistic because you are not going to convince 3/4 of Congress to vote this way.

We could turn all our schools into fortraces. But then they would just go somewhere else, like a football stadium, a court house, or a bus stop.

It looks like we have to arm the populace. Make it legal for everyone to go armed everywhere. Individuals would be free to chose not to arm themselves. This would insure nobody's freedoms will be violated, but could create other problems. This works in Israel. And I believe is the only realistic albit unpalatable choice.
The best argument against gun control in this country is that it’s too late for us. There are over 400 million guns in this country, and nobody knows where they are or who has them. Cities can pass gun control, but there are 400 million guns surrounding them. It’s too late. Gun nuts won. Might as well arm yourself.

That's the WORST argument.

Most of these mass shootings happen with guns that were recently purchased

Actually, most mass shooters plan 6 months to 2 years in advance.......
 

Lesh

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ok, another school shooting shows us that we need to make changes in how we do things around here.

We have limited choices. We can outlaw guns and have zero tolerance laws towards gun ownership which would require building a lot more prison and shoot outs as we take the guns away from what used to be law abiding citizens. This would require first getting 3/4 of Congress to get rid of the second amendment. Whether you think this is the only viable choice or not you have to admit it isn't realistic because you are not going to convince 3/4 of Congress to vote this way.

We could turn all our schools into fortraces. But then they would just go somewhere else, like a football stadium, a court house, or a bus stop.

It looks like we have to arm the populace. Make it legal for everyone to go armed everywhere. Individuals would be free to chose not to arm themselves. This would insure nobody's freedoms will be violated, but could create other problems. This works in Israel. And I believe is the only realistic albit unpalatable choice.
The best argument against gun control in this country is that it’s too late for us. There are over 400 million guns in this country, and nobody knows where they are or who has them. Cities can pass gun control, but there are 400 million guns surrounding them. It’s too late. Gun nuts won. Might as well arm yourself.

That's the WORST argument.

Most of these mass shootings happen with guns that were recently purchased

Actually, most mass shooters plan 6 months to 2 years in advance.......
Please document.

Every time I read about these killings they bought the guns in the six months previous to the killing
 

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