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Good Cops in South Carolina.

SavannahMann

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Many have complained. Myself included. That the biggest problem in Law Enforcement is the tendency of officers to lie in order to protect a fellow cop.

Many times it has been pointed out that whenever there is misconduct there is other officers who write their reports to support the bad cop. To try and cover it up or minimize it.

That didn’t happen in South Carolina. It wasn’t even suggested. So to South Carolina I offer my heartfelt appreciation and respects.


Officer David Lance Dukes of the Orangeberg Department of Public Safety was terminated for stomping on a man.

Let me post the video.


Other officers reported Dukes when he told the supervisor a version that was not quite accurate. Dukes wrote his version and submitted the report. The Supervisor having watched the body cam and dash cam video told Dukes that his report did not match the video. Dukes was told to rewrite it. This second report had similar variations from the video.

What did not happen? It wasn’t swept under a rug until the citizen filed a complaint. It was not suggested to the other cops that they might want to consider their reports to back up a fellow cop. It wasn’t minimized in any way.

It all happened exactly the way you hope it would. Including the opportunity to let Dukes rewrite the report.

I do not know. But I believe that Dukes was given an opportunity to review his body camera footage. That is my understanding as the norm.

After reviewing that footage Dukes changed his story. But he now tried to minimize it according to the news report. At first it was a push. Then he tried to claim that the intended push was more violent because he lost balance and fell.

I suspect that is the reason he was terminated and charged with crimes.

For the other officers involved. You have my thanks for doing the job the way we need you to. You have my respect for doing the right thing.

I salute your honesty and integrity. Honor is priceless and without equal in this world. You made the hard choice and the right choice. Well done.
 

pknopp

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Things are slowly starting to change. Officers who didn't actually commit the act are being charged because they did nothing to stop it
so now cops who knew better have decided that getting themselves in trouble also is not worth it.
 

Gabe Lackmann

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I don't know. This is debatable. Police are trained to control a scene. If they order someone to the ground they don't have time to go over medical records. He had two, potentially deadly perps he was trying to control.
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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Things are slowly starting to change. Officers who didn't actually commit the act are being charged because they did nothing to stop it
so now cops who knew better have decided that getting themselves in trouble also is not worth it.

When Body Cameras first came out they conducted a study. Random cops were assigned the cameras on a day to day basis. The results were very interesting. The cops with cameras were half as likely to use force as those without.

Proponents of cameras claimed this proved the cops were using excessive force. Police camera advocates claimed it frightened people into more compliant attitudes. I said it didn’t matter. If the goal was less use of force incidents which are safer for the cops the number we cared about was half.

Cameras show when the cop is telling the truth. It is an excellent third party witness. It doesn’t take sides. It just shows what happened. Coupled with the report for what the cop was thinking and what actions he believed were necessary it showed incidents and gave us greater understanding.

It isn’t perfect. But it is a great improvement. When the cop is doing it right it protects the officer. When the cop is doing it wrong it allows the officer to be retrained and improved. We all make mistakes. And videos have been used in accidents at work to help all of us improve.

We are eliminating the shadows of the world where corrupt officials can exist.

Cameras show what happened. Dash cams save Truckers from insurance scam accidents. Dash cams expose hostile drivers. Security cameras expose criminals and idiots.

I admire the speed with which this situation was addressed. It is a far cry from just a decade ago when a multiple month internal investigation would try and minimize the actions of the cop.

The times are changing. And for the better IMO.
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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I don't know. This is debatable. Police are trained to control a scene. If they order someone to the ground they don't have time to go over medical records. He had two, potentially deadly perps he was trying to control.

Ok. Back at the car the officer had some cover. He had backup behind him assisting. Why approach before the man is on the ground? Why rush in? Why hurry the situation?

Back at the car the cop was safer. He had his weapon out to cover the potentially dangerous man. Ok. No heartburn here. I can understand and agree that is a decent precaution. I used it in Iraq when covering people we were stopping.

Waiting until the man was fully on the ground and moving with your backup as one to inside you do not foul their line of fire is a good idea isn’t it? Reducing the chance of friendly fire is a consideration today just as it was when I wore Army Green.

Finally the stomp. If he had told the truth about it I suspect. I do not know but I believe it is probable that Dukes would have been reprimanded at worst and retrained. Lies always make things worse.
 

Gabe Lackmann

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Ok. Back at the car the officer had some cover. He had backup behind him assisting. Why approach before the man is on the ground? Why rush in? Why hurry the situation?

Back at the car the cop was safer. He had his weapon out to cover the potentially dangerous man. Ok. No heartburn here. I can understand and agree that is a decent precaution. I used it in Iraq when covering people we were stopping.

Waiting until the man was fully on the ground and moving with your backup as one to inside you do not foul their line of fire is a good idea isn’t it? Reducing the chance of friendly fire is a consideration today just as it was when I wore Army Green.

Finally the stomp. If he had told the truth about it I suspect. I do not know but I believe it is probable that Dukes would have been reprimanded at worst and retrained. Lies always make things worse.
I can't judge TBH. There are so many variables. Maybe he was wrong, maybe he wasn't...probably somewhere in between.
 
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SavannahMann

SavannahMann

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I can't judge TBH. There are so many variables. Maybe he was wrong, maybe he wasn't...probably somewhere in between.

Agreed. Tactics are as debatable as any other subject.

What isn’t debatable is the problems with the report. Sometimes report inaccuracies can be written off as POV problems. The person honestly believes they saw it one way. It does not appear to be one of those situations in this case. That doesn’t appear to apply.

When I was hurt on a parachute jump. The Army agreed to reclass me to another job. I was made an Air Traffic Controller. There I learned to phrase things certain ways. To avoid confusion. We called it Verbage. Everyone used the same terms and they always meant the same thing.

From what I have learned police are trained similarly. Words and phrases matter.

One thing I noticed was that the police did it right. There was one voice calling out commands. Not many voices shouting in unison creating a riot of conflicting and confusing orders. That from what I’ve learned is the right way to do it. One voice. One command.

But back to the report. The officer picked his words with care. He didn’t stomp. He pushed. He wasn’t intending to drive the subject into the pavement. He was trying to secure the man. The injury was unintentional. That is the flavor. The image created by the choice of words.

Think about it for a moment. How we phrase things communicates our intentions. Comedians use this to create jokes. Larry the Cable Guy. I was seeing this girl for a while. Seeing in context denotes dating. A relationship. Then the punchline. Until the police came and took away my binoculars. Ok. He is now a peeping Tom. A stalker. Verbal misdirection.

Politicians and lawyers do the same thing. Verbal misdirection. And we know from history that the Police can do the same thing. Body cameras reduce the ability to use verbal misdirection.

The report was an effort at Verbal Misdirection. His verbal report to his supervisor was similarly an effort to mislead his superior about the events. To create the narrative that would be carried through.

When Dukes learned that other officers were telling the truth. What he should have said. Should have done. Perhaps I was a little excited. I guess the push was too enthusiastic.

Again. Painting a picture with words. Making the actions a mistake instead of intent. Time to reflect. Time to consider. Time to evaluate the situation and his own actions. Contrition without problem.

Again. Probably a reprimand and possible some additional training.

But he stayed the course. There is an old saying. When you tell a lie. Stick to it. If it sinks stay with it. You lose more admitting the lie. Go to your grave swearing the lie is true.

IMO that is bad advice. First don’t lie. We forgive mistakes. We are human and we understand people make mistakes. We learn by honestly admitting them and correcting them as soon as possible. Nobody including me expects perfection. It is unrealistic.

A favorite story comes from the Apollo era. Months of work was wasted when a Grumman Engineer made a mistake in his math. After a test failed he went over his work from the beginning and discovered his error. He reported it the next morning.

He was not fired. They needed people to own up to mistakes and look for them. The sooner we find them the sooner we can fix them.

Covering up or lying about them makes the mistake twice as bad. We as a people are far less forgiving.

Look at Clinton. Presidents and powerful people have had affairs as long as society in any form has existed. It’s in the Bible. We knew Clinton was a horn dog. We knew it during the campaign. Hearing that he was still a cheating bastard was not going to be a surprise.

It was the televised lie that to this day they claim wasn’t a lie based upon technical definitions of a court. That is what his legacy became. The lie.

Welfare to workfare should have been his legacy. Balancing the budget. Any number of admirable achievements. Nope. It’s the lie. And that demonstrates the truth of the bad choice that the decision to lie results in.

It’s a shame nobody ever explained that to Dukes.
 

westwall

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I don't know. This is debatable. Police are trained to control a scene. If they order someone to the ground they don't have time to go over medical records. He had two, potentially deadly perps he was trying to control.




Watching the video I disagree. No one was acting hinky in any way.
 

Gabe Lackmann

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That
Agreed. Tactics are as debatable as any other subject.

What isn’t debatable is the problems with the report. Sometimes report inaccuracies can be written off as POV problems. The person honestly believes they saw it one way. It does not appear to be one of those situations in this case. That doesn’t appear to apply.

When I was hurt on a parachute jump. The Army agreed to reclass me to another job. I was made an Air Traffic Controller. There I learned to phrase things certain ways. To avoid confusion. We called it Verbage. Everyone used the same terms and they always meant the same thing.

From what I have learned police are trained similarly. Words and phrases matter.

One thing I noticed was that the police did it right. There was one voice calling out commands. Not many voices shouting in unison creating a riot of conflicting and confusing orders. That from what I’ve learned is the right way to do it. One voice. One command.

But back to the report. The officer picked his words with care. He didn’t stomp. He pushed. He wasn’t intending to drive the subject into the pavement. He was trying to secure the man. The injury was unintentional. That is the flavor. The image created by the choice of words.

Think about it for a moment. How we phrase things communicates our intentions. Comedians use this to create jokes. Larry the Cable Guy. I was seeing this girl for a while. Seeing in context denotes dating. A relationship. Then the punchline. Until the police came and took away my binoculars. Ok. He is now a peeping Tom. A stalker. Verbal misdirection.

Politicians and lawyers do the same thing. Verbal misdirection. And we know from history that the Police can do the same thing. Body cameras reduce the ability to use verbal misdirection.

The report was an effort at Verbal Misdirection. His verbal report to his supervisor was similarly an effort to mislead his superior about the events. To create the narrative that would be carried through.

When Dukes learned that other officers were telling the truth. What he should have said. Should have done. Perhaps I was a little excited. I guess the push was too enthusiastic.

Again. Painting a picture with words. Making the actions a mistake instead of intent. Time to reflect. Time to consider. Time to evaluate the situation and his own actions. Contrition without problem.

Again. Probably a reprimand and possible some additional training.

But he stayed the course. There is an old saying. When you tell a lie. Stick to it. If it sinks stay with it. You lose more admitting the lie. Go to your grave swearing the lie is true.

IMO that is bad advice. First don’t lie. We forgive mistakes. We are human and we understand people make mistakes. We learn by honestly admitting them and correcting them as soon as possible. Nobody including me expects perfection. It is unrealistic.

A favorite story comes from the Apollo era. Months of work was wasted when a Grumman Engineer made a mistake in his math. After a test failed he went over his work from the beginning and discovered his error. He reported it the next morning.

He was not fired. They needed people to own up to mistakes and look for them. The sooner we find them the sooner we can fix them.

Covering up or lying about them makes the mistake twice as bad. We as a people are far less forgiving.

Look at Clinton. Presidents and powerful people have had affairs as long as society in any form has existed. It’s in the Bible. We knew Clinton was a horn dog. We knew it during the campaign. Hearing that he was still a cheating bastard was not going to be a surprise.

It was the televised lie that to this day they claim wasn’t a lie based upon technical definitions of a court. That is what his legacy became. The lie.

Welfare to workfare should have been his legacy. Balancing the budget. Any number of admirable achievements. Nope. It’s the lie. And that demonstrates the truth of the bad choice that the decision to lie results in.

It’s a shame nobody ever explained that to Dukes.
Yeah, absolutely. I can see that. Good analysis.
 

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