God the Father

[ding]

The profession of faith begins with God, for God is the First and the Last, the beginning and the end of everything. The Credo begins with God the Father, for the Father is the first divine person of the Most Holy Trinity; the Creed begins with the creation of heaven and earth, for creation is the beginning and the foundation of all God's works.

"I believe in God": this first affirmation of the Apostles' Creed is also the most fundamental. The whole Creed speaks of God, and when it also speaks of man and of the world it does so in relation to God. The other articles of the Creed all depend on the first, just as the remaining Commandments make the first explicit. The other articles help us to know God better as he revealed himself progressively to men. "The faithful first profess their belief in God."

"I believe in one God" are the words with which the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed begins. The confession of God's oneness, which has its roots in the divine revelation of the Old Covenant, is inseparable from the profession of God's existence and is equally fundamental. God is unique; there is only one God: "The Christian faith confesses that God is one in nature, substance and essence."

To Israel, his chosen, God revealed himself as the only One: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD; and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might." Through the prophets, God calls Israel and all nations to turn to him, the one and only God: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.. . To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 'Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength.'"

Jesus himself affirms that God is "the one Lord" whom you must love "with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength". At the same time Jesus gives us to understand that he himself is "the Lord". To confess that Jesus is Lord is distinctive of Christian faith. This is not contrary to belief in the One God. Nor does believing in the Holy Spirit as "Lord and giver of life" introduce any division into the One God. We firmly believe and confess without reservation that there is only one true God, eternal infinite (immensus) and unchangeable, incomprehensible, almighty and ineffable, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit; three persons indeed, but one essence, substance or nature entirely simple.

God revealed himself to his people Israel by making his name known to them. A name expresses a person's essence and identity and the meaning of this person's life. God has a name; he is not an anonymous force. To disclose one's name is to make oneself known to others; in a way it is to hand oneself over by becoming accessible, capable of being known more intimately and addressed personally. God revealed himself progressively and under different names to his people, but the revelation that proved to be the fundamental one for both the Old and the New Covenants was the revelation of the divine name to Moses in the theophany of the burning bush, on the threshold of the Exodus and of the covenant on Sinai.

God calls Moses from the midst of a bush that burns without being consumed: "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." God is the God of the fathers, the One who had called and guided the patriarchs in their wanderings. He is the faithful and compassionate God who remembers them and his promises; he comes to free their descendants from slavery. He is the God who, from beyond space and time, can do this and wills to do it, the God who will put his almighty power to work for this plan.

Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you', and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you'. . . this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations."

In revealing his mysterious name, YHWH ("I AM HE WHO IS", "I AM WHO AM" or "I AM WHO I AM"), God says who he is and by what name he is to be called. This divine name is mysterious just as God is mystery. It is at once a name revealed and something like the refusal of a name, and hence it better expresses God as what he is - infinitely above everything that we can understand or say: he is the "hidden God", his name is ineffable, and he is the God who makes himself close to men.

By revealing his name God at the same time reveals his faithfulness which is from everlasting to everlasting, valid for the past ("I am the God of your father"), as for the future ("I will be with you"). God, who reveals his name as "I AM", reveals himself as the God who is always there, present to his people in order to save them.

Faced with God's fascinating and mysterious presence, man discovers his own insignificance. Before the burning bush, Moses takes off his sandals and veils his face in the presence of God's holiness. Before the glory of the thrice-holy God, Isaiah cries out: "Woe is me! I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips." Before the divine signs wrought by Jesus, Peter exclaims: "Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord." But because God is holy, he can forgive the man who realizes that he is a sinner before him: "I will not execute my fierce anger. . . for I am God and not man, the Holy One in your midst." The apostle John says likewise: "We shall. . . reassure our hearts before him whenever our hearts condemn us; for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything."

Out of respect for the holiness of God, the people of Israel do not pronounce his name. In the reading of Sacred Scripture, the revealed name (YHWH) is replaced by the divine title "LORD" (in Hebrew Adonai, in Greek Kyrios). It is under this title that the divinity of Jesus will be acclaimed: "Jesus is LORD."

After Israel's sin, when the people had turned away from God to worship the golden calf, God hears Moses' prayer of intercession and agrees to walk in the midst of an unfaithful people, thus demonstrating his love. When Moses asks to see his glory, God responds "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim before you my name 'the LORD' [YHWH]." Then the LORD passes before Moses and proclaims, "YHWH, YHWH, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness"; Moses then confesses that the LORD is a forgiving God.

The divine name, "I Am" or "He Is", expresses God's faithfulness: despite the faithlessness of men's sin and the punishment it deserves, he keeps "steadfast love for thousands". By going so far as to give up his own Son for us, God reveals that he is "rich in mercy". By giving his life to free us from sin, Jesus reveals that he himself bears the divine name: "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will realize that "I AM"."

Over the centuries, Israel's faith was able to manifest and deepen realization of the riches contained in the revelation of the divine name. God is unique; there are no other gods besides him. He transcends the world and history. He made heaven and earth: "They will perish, but you endure; they will all wear out like a garment. . . .but you are the same, and your years have no end." In God "there is no variation or shadow due to change." God is "HE WHO IS", from everlasting to everlasting, and as such remains ever faithful to himself and to his promises.

The revelation of the ineffable name "I AM WHO AM" contains then the truth that God alone IS. The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, and following it the Church's Tradition, understood the divine name in this sense: God is the fullness of Being and of every perfection, without origin and without end. All creatures receive all that they are and have from him; but he alone is his very being, and he is of himself everything that he is.

God, "HE WHO IS", revealed himself to Israel as the one "abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness". These two terms express summarily the riches of the divine name. In all his works God displays, not only his kindness, goodness, grace and steadfast love, but also his trustworthiness, constancy, faithfulness and truth. "I give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness." He is the Truth, for "God is light and in him there is no darkness"; "God is love", as the apostle John teaches.

"The sum of your word is truth; and every one of your righteous ordinances endures forever." "And now, O LORD God, you are God, and your words are true"; this is why God's promises always come true. God is Truth itself, whose words cannot deceive. This is why one can abandon oneself in full trust to the truth and faithfulness of his word in all things. The beginning of sin and of man's fall was due to a lie of the tempter who induced doubt of God's word, kindness and faithfulness.

God's truth is his wisdom, which commands the whole created order and governs the world. God, who alone made heaven and earth, can alone impart true knowledge of every created thing in relation to himself. God is also truthful when he reveals himself - the teaching that comes from God is "true instruction". When he sends his Son into the world it will be "to bear witness to the truth": "We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true."

In the course of its history, Israel was able to discover that God had only one reason to reveal himself to them, a single motive for choosing them from among all peoples as his special possession: his sheer gratuitous love. And thanks to the prophets Israel understood that it was again out of love that God never stopped saving them and pardoning their unfaithfulness and sins. God's love for Israel is compared to a father's love for his son. His love for his people is stronger than a mother's for her children. God loves his people more than a bridegroom his beloved; his love will be victorious over even the worst infidelities and will extend to his most precious gift: "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son."

God's love is "everlasting": "For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you." Through Jeremiah, God declares to his people, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you." But St. John goes even further when he affirms that "God is love": God's very being is love. By sending his only Son and the Spirit of Love in the fullness of time, God has revealed his innermost secret: God himself is an eternal exchange of love, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he has destined us to share in that exchange.

Believing in God, the only One, and loving him with all our being has enormous consequences for our whole life. It means coming to know God's greatness and majesty: "Behold, God is great, and we know him not." Therefore, we must "serve God first". It means living in thanksgiving: if God is the only One, everything we are and have comes from him: "What have you that you did not receive?" "What shall I render to the LORD for all his bounty to me?" It means knowing the unity and true dignity of all men: everyone is made in the image and likeness of God. It means making good use of created things: faith in God, the only One, leads us to use everything that is not God only insofar as it brings us closer to him, and to detach ourselves from it insofar as it turns us away from him:

My Lord and my God, take from me everything that distances me from you.
My Lord and my God, give me everything that brings me closer to you.
My Lord and my God, detach me from myself to give my all to you.

It means trusting God in every circumstance, even in adversity. A prayer of St. Teresa of Jesus wonderfully expresses this trust:

Let nothing trouble you / Let nothing frighten you
Everything passes / God never changes
Patience / Obtains all
Whoever has God / Wants for nothing
God alone is enough.

 

[ding]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

 

[ding]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.
You are not capable of reaching me due to your dogmatic style.
But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

 

[ding]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.

But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

So if you were God, there would be no death?

Maimonides - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.

But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

So if you were God, there would be no death?

Sure. No problem. Just remove the blood lust violence and suffering. Is that too much to ask?

If God is all powerful, why the horrors? Why even allow all the criminally insane souls wreaking havoc on innocents?

It makes no sense from a perspective of a "loving" God

 

[ding]

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.

Galen, in the third section of his book, The Use of the Limbs, says correctly that it would be in vain to expect to see living beings formed of the blood of menstruous women and the semen virile, who will not die, will never feel pain, or will move perpetually, or will shine like the sun. This dictum of Galen is part of the following more general proposition:--Whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter.

 

[ding]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.

But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

So if you were God, there would be no death?

Sure. No problem. Just remove the blood lust violence and suffering. Is that too much to ask?

If God is all powerful, why the horrors? Why even allow all the criminally insane souls wreaking havoc on innocents?

It makes no sense from a perspective of a "loving" God

So you want to control the actions and behaviors of everyone?

 

[Lysistrata]

You forgot God

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.
You are not capable of reaching me due to your dogmatic style.
But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

Maimonides was one of the great Jewish thinkers.

BTW: you are all forgetting God, Our Mother.

 

[ding]

...remove the blood lust violence and suffering

Suffering, like forest fires, serves a purpose. It always new growth to occur. It teaches us lessons.

 

[ding]

You forgot God

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.
You are not capable of reaching me due to your dogmatic style.
But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

Maimonides was one of the great Jewish thinkers.

BTW: you are all forgetting God, Our Mother.

How so?

 

[ding]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.

But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

So if you were God, there would be no death?

Sure. No problem. Just remove the blood lust violence and suffering. Is that too much to ask?

If God is all powerful, why the horrors? Why even allow all the criminally insane souls wreaking havoc on innocents?

It makes no sense from a perspective of a "loving" God

Would you really want to go through life without the agony of defeat? It's the agony of defeat that makes the thrill of victory worthwhile. It's like salt, it makes sweet taste sweeter.

I believe it is the up and downs that make life worth living. And how do you know God isn't experiencing the material world through us? Such that He shares in all of our experiences; the good and the bad.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.

But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

So if you were God, there would be no death?

Sure. No problem. Just remove the blood lust violence and suffering. Is that too much to ask?

If God is all powerful, why the horrors? Why even allow all the criminally insane souls wreaking havoc on innocents?

It makes no sense from a perspective of a "loving" God

Would you really want to go through life without the agony of defeat? It's the agony of defeat that makes the thrill of victory worthwhile. It's like salt, it makes sweet taste sweeter.

I believe it is the up and downs that make life worth living. And how do you know God isn't experiencing the material world through us? Such that He shares in all of our experiences; the good and the bad.

I agree that it is only through the experience of bad that we full appreciate good. Joy because we know sadness.

But the degree of suffering is something my conscious wrestles with. I see a tiny kitten, separated from it's mother cross the street, only to get run over.
I see children, like Madeline mcCain taken by evil savages and put through living hell.

Children under 10 dying of cancer.
Young children lose their parents to violent criminals.

I just think the suffering is too much. And I cannot fathom how a loving God is ok with it all.
Also, let's say we learn joy from suffering.......if a child is butchered and died....what is the lesson for that child?

 

[Taz]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

Total word salad = meaningless babble.

 

[Taz]

...remove the blood lust violence and suffering

Suffering, like forest fires, serves a purpose. It always new growth to occur. It teaches us lessons.

So god makes deformed babies to teach us a lesson? What a total fucking douchesack.

 

[ding]

Place an innocent infant on a blanket in Central Park, look the other way........in less than 60 seconds she will be gone forever.
Either killed or enslaved into prostitution or for some perverts pleasure.
What kind of "loving God" condones this? Is free will REALLY worth this? Why does God not protect innocent babies?

You can talk all kinds of Bible babble, but the reality is the world is an evil place for far too many.
And again, is "free will" worth the savagery and immeasurable and incalculable suffering? Worth it for whom?

Why place a tree with the most tempting fruit on Earth, then say "Meh, don't touch that"
The Gods must be crazy.

I was once a solid, devout God fearing Christian....then I started thinking about it.

Maimonides responds...

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils.

Man didn't cause innocent lambs in the jungle to be eaten by tigers. God did that.
The born blind zebra calf is nothing but food for crocodiles or Lions. Gods plan.
How horrendously cruel to innocents.

If free will is so damn destructive and causes untold suffering, is it really all that great in the first place....WTF ?

REALLY having a hard time with all the horrors caused by this wonderful "free will"

Maimonides responds...

"...genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation..."

All I'm saying is that it stands to reason that it didn't HAVE to be THIS way.

For example, God "could" have made all living creatures such that we got nourishment and energy from the Sun.
Instead, he created a world where everything has to brutally kill everything else to survive.

It just seem more an act of maliciousness.

But thanks for your efforts. Who is this Maimonides ??

So if you were God, there would be no death?

Sure. No problem. Just remove the blood lust violence and suffering. Is that too much to ask?

If God is all powerful, why the horrors? Why even allow all the criminally insane souls wreaking havoc on innocents?

It makes no sense from a perspective of a "loving" God

Would you really want to go through life without the agony of defeat? It's the agony of defeat that makes the thrill of victory worthwhile. It's like salt, it makes sweet taste sweeter.

I believe it is the up and downs that make life worth living. And how do you know God isn't experiencing the material world through us? Such that He shares in all of our experiences; the good and the bad.

I agree that it is only through the experience of bad that we full appreciate good. Joy because we know sadness.

But the degree of suffering is something my conscious wrestles with. I see a tiny kitten, separated from it's mother cross the street, only to get run over.
I see children, like Madeline mcCain taken by evil savages and put through living hell.

Children under 10 dying of cancer.
Young children lose their parents to violent criminals.

I just think the suffering is too much. And I cannot fathom how a loving God is ok with it all.
Also, let's say we learn joy from suffering.......if a child is butchered and died....what is the lesson for that child?

Maimonides responds...

MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things; many sayings and songs of the nations dwell on this idea. They say that a good thing is found only exceptionally, whilst evil things are numerous and lasting. Not only common people make this mistake, but even many who believe that they are wise. Al-Razi wrote a well-known book On Metaphysics [or Theology]. Among other mad and foolish things, it contains also the idea, discovered by him, that there exists more evil than good. For if the happiness of man and his pleasure in the times of prosperity be compared with the mishaps that befall him,--such as grief, acute pain, defects, paralysis of the limbs, fears, anxieties, and troubles,--it would seem as if the existence of man is a punishment and a great evil for him. This author commenced to verify his opinion by counting all the evils one by one; by this means he opposed those who hold the correct view of the benefits bestowed by God and His evident kindness, viz., that God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good.

 

[ding]

...remove the blood lust violence and suffering

Suffering, like forest fires, serves a purpose. It always new growth to occur. It teaches us lessons.

So god makes deformed babies to teach us a lesson? What a total fucking douchesack.

Maimonides responds...

"... MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things; many sayings and songs of the nations dwell on this idea..."

"...The first kind of evil is that which is caused to man by the circumstance that he is subject to genesis and destruction, or that he possesses a body. It is on account of the body that some persons happen to have great deformities or paralysis of some of the organs. This evil may be part of the natural constitution of these persons, or may have developed subsequently in consequence of changes in the elements, e.g., through bad air, or thunderstorms or landslips. We have already shown that, in accordance with the divine wisdom, genesis can only take place through destruction, and without the destruction of the individual members of the species the species themselves would not exist permanently. Thus the true kindness, and beneficence, and goodness of God is clear. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation: there would be one single being, but no individuals forming a species..."

"... it would be in vain to expect to see living beings formed of the blood of menstruous women and the semen virile, who will not die, will never feel pain, or will move perpetually, or will shine like the sun. Whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter. The best and most perfect being that can be formed of the blood and the semen is the species of man, for as far as man's nature is known, he is living, reasonable, and mortal. It is therefore impossible that man should be free from this species of evil. You will, nevertheless, find that the evils of the above kind which befall man are very few and rare.."

 

[ding]

...remove the blood lust violence and suffering

Suffering, like forest fires, serves a purpose. It always new growth to occur. It teaches us lessons.

So god makes deformed babies to teach us a lesson? What a total fucking douchesack.

Suffering and mourning are effective teachers.

 

[ding]

...remove the blood lust violence and suffering

Suffering, like forest fires, serves a purpose. It always new growth to occur. It teaches us lessons.

So god makes deformed babies to teach us a lesson? What a total fucking douchesack.

It seems that you place great weight on being good and doing good. Why is that? Why is it important to you that good is done?