God never promised you would be happy in this life...

[Foxfyre]

The short answer is sin.

The long answer:

God doesn't make them deformed. He allows people to be affected, directly or indirectly, by the sins of the world, which humans invited in, some in more severe ways than others.

His reason for that?

I'm not a supernatural being with the ability to see the future and into people's hearts and minds, otherwise I might have an answer.
But, God does promise that everything he does or doesn't do has a purpose, a reason, a time, a season for everyone.
I used to wonder about why God allowed pain. I thought once I gave my life to Christ, my pain might lessen. When it didn't I sought answers and almost gave up on God.
A couple of things stand out from that time.

The Footprints in The Sand poster.
If you've never seen it, look it up. It's a metaphor for people who think God isn't with them during times of suffering, only during times of happiness.

The Passion of the Christ movie.
I thought well God must not understand pain at all if he allows such suffering. My prayers were never answered about pain relief. Either that or He is sadistic.

The poster helped me realize He is there during hardship as well as good times. Actually much more closely than you'd think.

The movie helped me realize: 1. God didn't answer the desperate prayer of His own son. The plea to spare Him the suffering he was about to endure. But there was a very important reason for that. 2. Jesus is God in the flesh, so everything Jesus experienced during that time, every painful hit and lash, broken bones, the pain of abandonment, friends throwing you under the bus or claiming to not know you, being without God's presence, hunger, thirst, all of that and more, God experienced as well.
Even though God knew what the end result would be, that Jesus would raise from the dead and be with him in Heaven to prepare it for all who will come, God still had to endure feeling and witnessing His Son go through all that and die a horrible death.

Sin affects people directly and indirectly.

But let me ask, which is better to have, a short span of misery in exchange for an eternity of happiness, or a short span of happiness in exchange for an eternity of misery?

God never promised anything, that book was written by men. Got anything else, like a real reason why a god would make deformed and retarded babies?

As KellBell explained, God doesn't make deformed and retarded babies. They are a result of nature, imperfect genes, passed down through the generations or as a result of the behavior of the parents such as fetal alcohol syndrome. Sin is that which harms us and/or others and it can be cumulative passed down through the ages. It is bad because it does harm us and/or others, and that is why God is against it, and why he warns us against it and teaches us to reject it. If everybody did there would be utopia on Earth. But EVERYTHING that is wrong on Earth generally comes from people not paying attention to God's instruction/law and/or overtly or inadvertently committing sin.

You do realize that god’s law, as you call it, was written by men, and not by an invisible superbeing.

No. God's law IS God's law. His person may be invisible, but his handiwork, his law, his Creation is evident for all to see who have eyes/soul to see. Some interpretation of it has been written by hand.

So some people made up their own versions (interpretation) of what a god would want. How do you know that that's correct?

Who is capable of knowing what is and is not 'correct' when none of us were there? Those who wrote the Bible were writing in their world, their time, their culture as they were capable of understanding it. We err completely when we try to evaluate what they wrote or anybody wrote eons ago via standards of our 21st century experience, sense of morality, our culture etc. and/or by demanding literal translations of everything that could metaphorical or allegorical or figurative. To understand the Bible or any other writings from long ago, we must read through the eyes of those who wrote it and allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers.

Meanwhile, here and now, we know God by experiencing God and using our God given common sense and logic and ability to see and understand. I think the fact that some try so hard to attack the faith of believers, to PROVE God doesn't exist, to convince others that their non belief is valid, is a pretty good case for God existing. They don't work as hard to disprove anything else.

 

[Natural Citizen]

...but despite everything, if you have faith enough, you will achieve some sort of peace of mind and soul, which is better than happiness because it's more real.

I shoulda been a cowboy.

 

[Taz]

God never promised anything, that book was written by men. Got anything else, like a real reason why a god would make deformed and retarded babies?

As KellBell explained, God doesn't make deformed and retarded babies. They are a result of nature, imperfect genes, passed down through the generations or as a result of the behavior of the parents such as fetal alcohol syndrome. Sin is that which harms us and/or others and it can be cumulative passed down through the ages. It is bad because it does harm us and/or others, and that is why God is against it, and why he warns us against it and teaches us to reject it. If everybody did there would be utopia on Earth. But EVERYTHING that is wrong on Earth generally comes from people not paying attention to God's instruction/law and/or overtly or inadvertently committing sin.

You do realize that god’s law, as you call it, was written by men, and not by an invisible superbeing.

No. God's law IS God's law. His person may be invisible, but his handiwork, his law, his Creation is evident for all to see who have eyes/soul to see. Some interpretation of it has been written by hand.

So some people made up their own versions (interpretation) of what a god would want. How do you know that that's correct?

Who is capable of knowing what is and is not 'correct' when none of us were there? Those who wrote the Bible were writing through their world, their time, their culture as they were capable of understanding it. We err completely when we try to evaluate what they wrote or anybody wrote eons ago via standards of our 21st century experience, sense of morality, our culture etc. and/or by demanding literal translations of everything that could metaphorical or allegorical or figurative. To understand the Bible or any other writings from long ago, we must read through the eyes of those who wrote it and allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers.

Meanwhile, here and now, we know God by experiencing God and using our God given common sense and logic and ability to see and understand. I think the fact that some try so hard to attack the faith of believers, to PROVE God doesn't exist, to convince others that their non belief is valid, is a pretty good case for God existing. They don't work as hard to disprove anything else.

"allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers." So basically, you're saying that the bible is fiction. Then we agree.

 

[buttercup]

...but despite everything, if you have faith enough, you will achieve some sort of peace of mind and soul, which is better than happiness because it's more real.

You can get the same feeling from a bottle of wine... and it would be just as meaningful.

There is no God. The sooner we realize that and try to fix our own problems, the better.

And the wine is a heck of a lot more fun!

No, it’s really not. Alcohol gives you an artificial high that messes you up in more ways than one. Using alcohol as an escape will never, ever fill that void that Blackrook was talking about, the one that everyone so desperately tries to fill in all the wrong ways. I mean I know you were joking, but… just sayin’.

 

[buttercup]

...but despite everything, if you have faith enough, you will achieve some sort of peace of mind and soul, which is better than happiness because it's more real.

What kind of pseudo hippy god babble is that? Quote a scripture please.

There are several that basically say that, but here’s one for you:

”I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
John 16:33

 

[buttercup]

...but despite everything, if you have faith enough, you will achieve some sort of peace of mind and soul, which is better than happiness because it's more real.

You can get the same feeling from a bottle of wine... and it would be just as meaningful.

There is no God. The sooner we realize that and try to fix our own problems, the better.

The first thing you said is not even worth addressing, because everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that’s not true. As for the second thing you said, it is self refuting. One would have to be omniscient to know that, and if you were omniscient you yourself would be God. Hence the self-defeating statement.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Break those laws or make the wrong choices, and we and/or our posterity will suffer the consequences.

Ah, so you do think birth defects are caused by sin.

That's gross, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[buttercup]

Happiness is assured in Heaven not here. There are trials and temptations here. After this world is ended there will be joy.

A fine description of why religion is poisonous.

Really? Is it poisonous to delay gratification? Is it poisonous to believe that the troubles in this life strengthen us? Is it poisonous to look forward to something better?

Right? It boggles my mind that they think this life has to be rainbows and bunnies with no chance for anything to ever go wrong, and at the same time they believe they should be able to do whatever the hell they want, with no consequences whatsoever. In other words, they want to enjoy a perfect life with zero regard for their Creator...in fact they basically spit in God’s face while demanding a perfect life. You cannot get any more immature than that.

 

[Foxfyre]

As KellBell explained, God doesn't make deformed and retarded babies. They are a result of nature, imperfect genes, passed down through the generations or as a result of the behavior of the parents such as fetal alcohol syndrome. Sin is that which harms us and/or others and it can be cumulative passed down through the ages. It is bad because it does harm us and/or others, and that is why God is against it, and why he warns us against it and teaches us to reject it. If everybody did there would be utopia on Earth. But EVERYTHING that is wrong on Earth generally comes from people not paying attention to God's instruction/law and/or overtly or inadvertently committing sin.

You do realize that god’s law, as you call it, was written by men, and not by an invisible superbeing.

No. God's law IS God's law. His person may be invisible, but his handiwork, his law, his Creation is evident for all to see who have eyes/soul to see. Some interpretation of it has been written by hand.

So some people made up their own versions (interpretation) of what a god would want. How do you know that that's correct?

Who is capable of knowing what is and is not 'correct' when none of us were there? Those who wrote the Bible were writing through their world, their time, their culture as they were capable of understanding it. We err completely when we try to evaluate what they wrote or anybody wrote eons ago via standards of our 21st century experience, sense of morality, our culture etc. and/or by demanding literal translations of everything that could metaphorical or allegorical or figurative. To understand the Bible or any other writings from long ago, we must read through the eyes of those who wrote it and allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers.

Meanwhile, here and now, we know God by experiencing God and using our God given common sense and logic and ability to see and understand. I think the fact that some try so hard to attack the faith of believers, to PROVE God doesn't exist, to convince others that their non belief is valid, is a pretty good case for God existing. They don't work as hard to disprove anything else.

"allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers." So basically, you're saying that the bible is fiction. Then we agree.

I did not at all say that the Bible is fiction. So we do not agree. The Bible is a masterpiece of collected manuscripts and you will find history, law, wisdom sayings, explanations, allegory, metaphor, symbolism, poetry, prophecy, all revealed through the understanding of a people who knew God and described him and what they believed he expected of them as best they could with their experience, within their culture, with the words they had to express. To call that fiction is akin to calling the writings of Pluto or Aristotle or Socrates 'fiction'.

Perhaps if I live long enough, however, I will understand the passion of those who so much want to destroy the faith of believers. What is it in people to make them that heartless and cruel I wonder?

 

[Foxfyre]

Break those laws or make the wrong choices, and we and/or our posterity will suffer the consequences.

Ah, so you do think birth defects are caused by sin.

That's gross, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I suggest you put what I said in its full context and you probably wouldn't get things so wrong maybe.

 

[Taz]

You do realize that god’s law, as you call it, was written by men, and not by an invisible superbeing.

No. God's law IS God's law. His person may be invisible, but his handiwork, his law, his Creation is evident for all to see who have eyes/soul to see. Some interpretation of it has been written by hand.

So some people made up their own versions (interpretation) of what a god would want. How do you know that that's correct?

Who is capable of knowing what is and is not 'correct' when none of us were there? Those who wrote the Bible were writing through their world, their time, their culture as they were capable of understanding it. We err completely when we try to evaluate what they wrote or anybody wrote eons ago via standards of our 21st century experience, sense of morality, our culture etc. and/or by demanding literal translations of everything that could metaphorical or allegorical or figurative. To understand the Bible or any other writings from long ago, we must read through the eyes of those who wrote it and allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers.

Meanwhile, here and now, we know God by experiencing God and using our God given common sense and logic and ability to see and understand. I think the fact that some try so hard to attack the faith of believers, to PROVE God doesn't exist, to convince others that their non belief is valid, is a pretty good case for God existing. They don't work as hard to disprove anything else.

"allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers." So basically, you're saying that the bible is fiction. Then we agree.

I did not at all say that the Bible is fiction. So we do not agree. The Bible is a masterpiece of collected manuscripts and you will find history, law, wisdom sayings, explanations, allegory, metaphor, symbolism, poetry, prophecy, all revealed through the understanding of a people who knew God and described him and what they believed he expected of them as best they could with their experience, within their culture, with the words they had to express. To call that fiction is akin to calling the writings of Pluto or Aristotle or Socrates 'fiction'.

Perhaps if I live long enough, however, I will understand the passion of those who so much want to destroy the faith of believers. What is it in people to make them that heartless and cruel I wonder?

Personally I’m looking for real proof, not trying to bum anyone’s trip.

But Pluto... is fiction, like philosophy. Is that what you’re saying the bible is?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Break those laws or make the wrong choices, and we and/or our posterity will suffer the consequences.

Ah, so you do think birth defects are caused by sin.

That's gross, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I suggest you put what I said in its full context and you probably wouldn't get things so wrong maybe.

I suggest you admit that the meaning doesnt change, in context. You very clearly implied what I said you implied, and now you realize how embarrassing it is.

 

[Blackrook]

Happiness is assured in Heaven not here. There are trials and temptations here. After this world is ended there will be joy.

A fine description of why religion is poisonous.

That doesn't even make sense. Why would a promise of joy in the next world make religion poisonous?

 

[buttercup]

Happiness is assured in Heaven not here. There are trials and temptations here. After this world is ended there will be joy.

A fine description of why religion is poisonous.

That doesn't even make sense. Why would a promise of joy in the next world make religion poisonous?

I've come to the conclusion that a good percentage of his posts are nonsensical. Maybe they make sense in his mind, but he doesn't seem able to clearly articulate his thoughts, so he comes across as an angry atheist, ranting and raving, but not clearly expressing himself.

 

[KellBell]

God never promised anything, that book was written by men. Got anything else, like a real reason why a god would make deformed and retarded babies?

As KellBell explained, God doesn't make deformed and retarded babies. They are a result of nature, imperfect genes, passed down through the generations or as a result of the behavior of the parents such as fetal alcohol syndrome. Sin is that which harms us and/or others and it can be cumulative passed down through the ages. It is bad because it does harm us and/or others, and that is why God is against it, and why he warns us against it and teaches us to reject it. If everybody did there would be utopia on Earth. But EVERYTHING that is wrong on Earth generally comes from people not paying attention to God's instruction/law and/or overtly or inadvertently committing sin.

You do realize that god’s law, as you call it, was written by men, and not by an invisible superbeing.

No. God's law IS God's law. His person may be invisible, but his handiwork, his law, his Creation is evident for all to see who have eyes/soul to see. Some interpretation of it has been written by hand.

So some people made up their own versions (interpretation) of what a god would want. How do you know that that's correct?

Who is capable of knowing what is and is not 'correct' when none of us were there? Those who wrote the Bible were writing in their world, their time, their culture as they were capable of understanding it. We err completely when we try to evaluate what they wrote or anybody wrote eons ago via standards of our 21st century experience, sense of morality, our culture etc. and/or by demanding literal translations of everything that could metaphorical or allegorical or figurative. To understand the Bible or any other writings from long ago, we must read through the eyes of those who wrote it and allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers.

Meanwhile, here and now, we know God by experiencing God and using our God given common sense and logic and ability to see and understand. I think the fact that some try so hard to attack the faith of believers, to PROVE God doesn't exist, to convince others that their non belief is valid, is a pretty good case for God existing. They don't work as hard to disprove anything else.

There is a way to know for sure.
First, historical books have to go through a review to determine accuracy. The Bible is THE most accurate, of all the oldest books written. There are manuscripts from before Jesus was born that prove the OT as accurate.
Second, if God's word, the Bible, were capable of being corrupted by 100s of years of rewriting, the central message would have been corrupted long ago.
There was a council of holy men from different sects, but who believed in God, who met twice to determine what books should belong in the Bible. Once about 400 yrs, BC, before the birth of Jesus. Once in the mid 100s AD. Both times it was a days long meeting of all types of churches to determine what books were legitimate and belonged, first in the OT, then in the NT. If there was any inaccuracy in any account, the whole account was thrown out.
Not to mention, Daniel's account/book, which was written about mid 500 BC, according to another history book, prophesied that there would be 483 years between the decree to rebuild the wall and the city of Jerusalem and Christ's death/resurrection. And exactly 483 years after the rebuilding was finished, Jesus was crucified and rose again.

 

[KellBell]

Happiness is assured in Heaven not here. There are trials and temptations here. After this world is ended there will be joy.

A fine description of why religion is poisonous.

Really? Is it poisonous to delay gratification? Is it poisonous to believe that the troubles in this life strengthen us? Is it poisonous to look forward to something better?

Right? It boggles my mind that they think this life has to be rainbows and bunnies with no chance for anything to ever go wrong, and at the same time they believe they should be able to do whatever the hell they want, with no consequences whatsoever. In other words, they want to enjoy a perfect life with zero regard for their Creator...in fact they basically spit in God’s face while demanding a perfect life. You cannot get any more immature than that.

You hit the nail.on the head there.

I tried once to describe God and his relationship to the world like being a parent and how, even though you want the best for your child and never want to see them in pain, there are times when you have to say No, or not get them what they want, or when they have to deal with consequences of their actions or they'll be spoiled entitled brats.
I compared it to God before He withdrew himself from the world, particularly Moses and his time in the desert with the Israelites. How after a time of God doing miracles, feeding them, saving them, clothing them, the people became demanding, spoiled and greedy. Then when God didn't answer them or give in to demands, even though they had evidence He was still among them, they made false idols to worship and ask things from. Then felt He was being mean or spiteful when he withheld the Promised Land from them.
I can easily understand all this as a parent.

 

[KellBell]

Happiness is assured in Heaven not here. There are trials and temptations here. After this world is ended there will be joy.

A fine description of why religion is poisonous.

Really? Is it poisonous to delay gratification? Is it poisonous to believe that the troubles in this life strengthen us? Is it poisonous to look forward to something better?

Right? It boggles my mind that they think this life has to be rainbows and bunnies with no chance for anything to ever go wrong, and at the same time they believe they should be able to do whatever the hell they want, with no consequences whatsoever. In other words, they want to enjoy a perfect life with zero regard for their Creator...in fact they basically spit in God’s face while demanding a perfect life. You cannot get any more immature than that.

You hit the nail.on the head there.

I tried once to describe God and his relationship to the world like being a parent and how, even though you want the best for your child and never want to see them in pain, there are times when you have to say No, or not get them what they want, or when they have to deal with consequences of their actions or they'll be spoiled entitled brats.
I compared it to God before He withdrew himself from the world, particularly Moses and his time in the desert with the Israelites. How after a time of God doing miracles, feeding them, saving them, clothing them, the people became demanding, spoiled and greedy. Then when God didn't answer them or give in to demands, even though they had evidence He was still among them, they made false idols to worship and ask things from. Then felt He was being mean or spiteful when he withheld the Promised Land from them.
I can easily understand all this as a parent.

The person I was explaining this to either willfully missed the point or has never been a parent who had to say No, because he responded with something like, "Awww poor God, he got his wittle feewings hurt because Johnny wouldn't behave."

As KellBell explained, God doesn't make deformed and retarded babies. They are a result of nature, imperfect genes, passed down through the generations or as a result of the behavior of the parents such as fetal alcohol syndrome. Sin is that which harms us and/or others and it can be cumulative passed down through the ages. It is bad because it does harm us and/or others, and that is why God is against it, and why he warns us against it and teaches us to reject it. If everybody did there would be utopia on Earth. But EVERYTHING that is wrong on Earth generally comes from people not paying attention to God's instruction/law and/or overtly or inadvertently committing sin.

You do realize that god’s law, as you call it, was written by men, and not by an invisible superbeing.

No. God's law IS God's law. His person may be invisible, but his handiwork, his law, his Creation is evident for all to see who have eyes/soul to see. Some interpretation of it has been written by hand.

So some people made up their own versions (interpretation) of what a god would want. How do you know that that's correct?

Who is capable of knowing what is and is not 'correct' when none of us were there? Those who wrote the Bible were writing in their world, their time, their culture as they were capable of understanding it. We err completely when we try to evaluate what they wrote or anybody wrote eons ago via standards of our 21st century experience, sense of morality, our culture etc. and/or by demanding literal translations of everything that could metaphorical or allegorical or figurative. To understand the Bible or any other writings from long ago, we must read through the eyes of those who wrote it and allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers.

Meanwhile, here and now, we know God by experiencing God and using our God given common sense and logic and ability to see and understand. I think the fact that some try so hard to attack the faith of believers, to PROVE God doesn't exist, to convince others that their non belief is valid, is a pretty good case for God existing. They don't work as hard to disprove anything else.

There is a way to know for sure.
First, historical books have to go through a review to determine accuracy. The Bible is THE most accurate, of all the oldest books written. There are manuscripts from before Jesus was born that prove the OT as accurate.
Second, if God's word, the Bible, were capable of being corrupted by 100s of years of rewriting, the central message would have been corrupted long ago.
There was a council of holy men from different sects, but who believed in God, who met twice to determine what books should belong in the Bible. Once about 400 yrs, BC, before the birth of Jesus. Once in the mid 100s AD. Both times it was a days long meeting of all types of churches to determine what books were legitimate and belonged, first in the OT, then in the NT. If there was any inaccuracy in any account, the whole account was thrown out.
Not to mention, Daniel's account/book, which was written about mid 500 BC, according to another history book, prophesied that there would be 483 years between the decree to rebuild the wall and the city of Jerusalem and Christ's death/resurrection. And exactly 483 years after the rebuilding was finished, Jesus was crucified and rose again.

 

[KellBell]

No. God's law IS God's law. His person may be invisible, but his handiwork, his law, his Creation is evident for all to see who have eyes/soul to see. Some interpretation of it has been written by hand.

So some people made up their own versions (interpretation) of what a god would want. How do you know that that's correct?

Who is capable of knowing what is and is not 'correct' when none of us were there? Those who wrote the Bible were writing through their world, their time, their culture as they were capable of understanding it. We err completely when we try to evaluate what they wrote or anybody wrote eons ago via standards of our 21st century experience, sense of morality, our culture etc. and/or by demanding literal translations of everything that could metaphorical or allegorical or figurative. To understand the Bible or any other writings from long ago, we must read through the eyes of those who wrote it and allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers.

Meanwhile, here and now, we know God by experiencing God and using our God given common sense and logic and ability to see and understand. I think the fact that some try so hard to attack the faith of believers, to PROVE God doesn't exist, to convince others that their non belief is valid, is a pretty good case for God existing. They don't work as hard to disprove anything else.

"allow them the same literary license that we allow modern day writers." So basically, you're saying that the bible is fiction. Then we agree.

I did not at all say that the Bible is fiction. So we do not agree. The Bible is a masterpiece of collected manuscripts and you will find history, law, wisdom sayings, explanations, allegory, metaphor, symbolism, poetry, prophecy, all revealed through the understanding of a people who knew God and described him and what they believed he expected of them as best they could with their experience, within their culture, with the words they had to express. To call that fiction is akin to calling the writings of Pluto or Aristotle or Socrates 'fiction'.

Perhaps if I live long enough, however, I will understand the passion of those who so much want to destroy the faith of believers. What is it in people to make them that heartless and cruel I wonder?

Personally I’m looking for real proof, not trying to bum anyone’s trip.

But Pluto... is fiction, like philosophy. Is that what you’re saying the bible is?

If you're honestly looking for real proof, read avowed former atheists accounts of why they accepted Christ. There are many of them.
Two of the most compelling I've found are Lee Strobel and David Wood. Especially David Wood.

Also, try inviting God to show you the truth and being honestly open to what you find.
Some tips, if you'll take them.
1. Start small, with yourself, why you should believe in God, why others chose to believe, then work up to the bigger questions.
2. Don't demand to see a miracle for proof before you'll believe. I've never heard of this working. And it's not an honest deal.
3. Don't debate this on Twitter or other social media if you're looking for answers. It's not the place for people genuinely seeking the truth.

 

[22lcidw]

...but despite everything, if you have faith enough, you will achieve some sort of peace of mind and soul, which is better than happiness because it's more real.

You can get the same feeling from a bottle of wine... and it would be just as meaningful.

There is no God. The sooner we realize that and try to fix our own problems, the better.

Promoting the faith certainly kept a lot more people in line though. We have more problems today an a massive cost increase to keep it under reasonable control. Unfortunately there are some rules not liked by people over others along with the ones who scam.

 

[KellBell]

...but despite everything, if you have faith enough, you will achieve some sort of peace of mind and soul, which is better than happiness because it's more real.

What kind of pseudo hippy god babble is that? Quote a scripture please.

He's speaking in terms of someone who is enduring chronic pain.
Though I do have to say from experience, happiness is also possible, and necessary to have, even while in chronic pain.

The scripture you are wanting to see has been quoted in this thread already, but here it is again:
John 16:33
33I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world.”