GM says it "disappointed" and "betrayed" consumers

[NOBama]

DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp on Monday unveiled an unusually frank advertisement acknowledging it had "disappointed" and sometimes even "betrayed" American consumers as it lobbies to clinch the federal aid it needs to stay afloat into next month.

The print advertisement marked a sharp break from GM's public stance of just several weeks ago when it sought to justify its bid for a U.S. government on the grounds that the credit crisis had undermined its business in ways executives could never have foreseen.

It also came as Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, who has led the automaker since 2000, faces new pressure to step aside as GM seeks up to $18 billion in federal funding.

"While we're still the U.S. sales leader, we acknowledge we have disappointed you," the ad said. "At times we violated your trust by letting our quality fall below industry standards and our designs became lackluster."

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Sorry, we screwed you. Now give us some loot

This ad should have been in the WSJ rather than some obscure trade rag that only industry executives, lobbyists and other insiders read.

 

[Annie]

Well GM may have given their apologies, but they failed to cite one of the causes of their problems, government mandates. Therein lies the problem with this bailout. Every member of congress wants to tell the automakers which cars to build, what size, who will build, and where they will build while not having a clue to the auto industry.

This is a disaster that the people of the US will be paying for, long after we're all driving non-US brand cars.

 

[NOBama]

I’m not a big fan of government mandates but in the case of automakers, mandates almost seem necessary especially regarding safety and mileage. Otherwise, we’d probably still be driving cars with metal dashboards, no seatbelts, and getting 15mpg.

The big 3 have a notorious habit of saying “make me” (because they've had a 3 way cartel for so long?) when it comes to improving their product which, IMO, is one of the reasons their in the deep stuff now.

 

[Annie]

I’m not a big fan of government mandates but in the case of automakers, mandates almost seem necessary especially regarding safety and mileage. Otherwise, we’d probably still be driving cars with metal dashboards, no seatbelts, and getting 15mpg.

The big 3 have a notorious habit of saying “make me” (because they've had a 3 way cartel for so long?) when it comes to improving their product which, IMO, is one of the reasons their in the deep stuff now.

No we wouldn't. People wouldn't buy those cars. Bottom line, the companies should be reorganized under Chapter 11. They need new management and they need to rework those contracts. Mandating the types of cars isn't going to work, especially with 500+ non-engineers.

 

[NOBama]

No we wouldn't. People wouldn't buy those cars. Bottom line, the companies should be reorganized under Chapter 11. They need new management and they need to rework those contracts. Mandating the types of cars isn't going to work, especially with 500+ non-engineers.

We wouldn't what? Drive cars with metal dashboards, no seat belts, and poor gas mileage, if that's all that was available? I kind of doubt that and I'm sure many of us have had several of those cars.

I definately on board with your "Bottom line".

 

[jillian]

No we wouldn't. People wouldn't buy those cars. Bottom line, the companies should be reorganized under Chapter 11. They need new management and they need to rework those contracts. Mandating the types of cars isn't going to work, especially with 500+ non-engineers.

But they DID buy those cars.... until the government said STOP MAKING THEM.

 

[editec]

But they DID buy those cars.... until the government said STOP MAKING THEM.

That's all there was to buy.

Another example of why some government regulations make damned good sense.

No auto company could AFFORD to make safer cars because they cost more to make and the public would have continued buying the cheaper unsafer cars,

So by mandating that the auto industires made cars safer, they ALL had to do so.

Bottom line is that the fataility rates (per mile driven) has gone down about 400% from what it was when I first started driving.

Seatbelts were the NUMBER ONE lifesaver BTW.

 

[Old Rocks]

My first car was a '57 Pontiac, second a '59 Pontiac Bonneville. The second car I put seatbelts in myself, and did so for every car I owned thereafter untill the car manufacturers put them in as mandated by the government.

I find Annie's trust in business rather odd. After all, the business community made no effort to clean up toxic pollution until the government mandated it. And they well knew that the pollution was toxic, and adversly affecting children. Their bottom line mattered more than the health of the children of this nation, and that remains the case. Government regulation of industry is an absolute neccessity for the protection of the citizens of this nation.

 

[NOBama]

After all, the business community made no effort to clean up toxic pollution until the government mandated it. And they well knew that the pollution was toxic, and adversly affecting children. Their bottom line mattered more than the health of the children of this nation, and that remains the case. Government regulation of industry is an absolute neccessity for the protection of the citizens of this nation.

Actually, that issue hasn't gone away, we've just moved it to third world countries, even China. Recently, I saw a documentary about how we now export (illegally) things like computer monitors to third world countries for disposal because they're so toxic.

Pollution also factors in when it comes to why much of our manufacturing industries moved offshore. A lot of people think they moved offshore just to achieve reduced labor and material costs but, that's not entirely true. Pollution is one of the dirty little secrets our government doesn't like to talk about.

 

[Annie]

We wouldn't what? Drive cars with metal dashboards, no seat belts, and poor gas mileage, if that's all that was available? I kind of doubt that and I'm sure many of us have had several of those cars.

I definately on board with your "Bottom line".

But that's not 'all that's available', which is the whole problem. They are making cars no one wants, at prices that are higher than they are worth.

 

[Annie]

But they DID buy those cars.... until the government said STOP MAKING THEM.

The whole problem is that they didn't let the markets drive the product, instead they mandated, every sense then it's been a collapse waiting to happen.

Government should not drive business, the markets will and should. One or five lean years for one industry would have been much better than the bubble that has arisen.

 

[NOBama]

But that's not 'all that's available', which is the whole problem. They are making cars no one wants, at prices that are higher than they are worth.

Well, I agree but, back in the day when they WERE the only game in town they wouldn’t cooperate, of their own volition. If I recall, they fought seat belts, tooth and nail, until they were finally TOLD that all cars coming off the assembly line would have them. Once regulations began, they basically became victims of their own greed.

But, that was then... In today’s world, the very regulations that force them to be better stewards of their industry combined with the UAW are choking them to death. If they weren’t lavishing their executives and retirees with extravagant benefits or paying workers 95% of their salary while their temporarily laid off, perhaps they’d have the money to retool and remain competitive.

IMO, the auto industry screwed themselves out of pure greed which is another reason to let them fail.

 

[Annie]

Well, I agree but, back in the day when they WERE the only game in town they wouldn’t cooperate, of their own volition. If I recall, they fought seat belts, tooth and nail, until they were finally TOLD that all cars coming off the assembly line would have them. Once regulations began, they basically became victims of their own greed.

But, that was then... In today’s world, the very regulations that force them to be better stewards of their industry combined with the UAW are choking them to death. If they weren’t lavishing their executives and retirees with extravagant benefits or paying workers 95% of their salary while their temporarily laid off, perhaps they’d have the money to retool and remain competitive.

IMO, the auto industry screwed themselves out of pure greed which is another reason to let them fail.

Not true. The government started interceding well after the Japanese and Germans were making headway by superior products, including changing on a dime to higher mileage cars in the 70's energy crisis.

 

[NOBama]

Not true. The government started interceding well after the Japanese and Germans were making headway by superior products, including changing on a dime to higher mileage cars in the 70's energy crisis.

Sorry, but, Toyota, Dotson, VW, etc, weren't much of a threat to US industry back then. The US still held more than 80% market share in 1970. Hence, they still had time to get their act together even though the collapse had already begun.

That said, I still don't agree with heavy handed government mandates of any industry but, I know there was a time when they were necessary.

If or until we resolve the issue of greed is resolved (which will never happen) that lures companies cut corners for profit, there will always be a roll for some level of intervention at state or federal levels. Finding the right level of intervention seems to be the real problem. Perhaps the auto industry should have ANSI standards by which all vehicles must conform and are updated constantly, similar to electrical, plumbing, and building standards.

Can you imagine living in a society were there were no standards A.K.A. regulations A.K.A. codes? Would you feel safe the next time you turn on a light switch or chug down a glass of water from your kitchen faucet or have your house blown away every time a 100 mph wind blows through town?

Why should the auto industry be an exception? It shouldn’t, IMO.

 

[dilloduck]

Sorry, but, Toyota, Dotson, VW, etc, weren't much of a threat to US industry back then. The US still held more than 80% market share in 1970. Hence, they still had time to get their act together even though the collapse had already begun.

That said, I still don't agree with heavy handed government mandates of any industry but, I know there was a time when they were necessary.

If or until we resolve the issue of greed is resolved (which will never happen) that lures companies cut corners for profit, there will always be a roll for some level of intervention at state or federal levels. Finding the right level of intervention seems to be the real problem. Perhaps the auto industry should have ANSI standards by which all vehicles must conform and are updated constantly, similar to electrical, plumbing, and building standards.

Can you imagine living in a society were there were no standards A.K.A. regulations A.K.A. codes? Would you feel safe the next time you turn on a light switch or chug down a glass of water from your kitchen faucet or have your house blown away every time a 100 mph wind blows through town?

Why should the auto industry be an exception? It shouldn’t, IMO.

Government has intervened so much that people are stupid helpless idiots who whine and sue everytime something bad happens. They expect government to provide them with security when there is no such animal.

 

[GHook93]

Here is another regulation on the auto industry that was needed. Acid rain and pollution in the air (aside from Carbon emmissions and Global Warming) was a HUGE problem. Lead based gas and car emissions were the problem! The government enacted the CAA and dictated that the auto industry must change. Do a history check, they cried foul, said it was impossible, but they did it! Air pollution has gone down rapidly since its enactment and acid rain is a thing of the past!

For the most part I am against government dictating on how businesses run their business. But I am all for the government getting Draconian on the auto industry! We need to be off foreign oil, not only does it dictate our foreign policy, but it keeps us at the mercy of countries that don't like us (Russia, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc). America won't tell them what cars to make, but will dictated standards for them to make, including any foreign manufactured automobiles!

 

[NOBama]

Government has intervened so much that people are stupid helpless idiots who whine and sue everytime something bad happens. They expect government to provide them with security when there is no such animal.

Rumor has it that Moses lost the tablet that had the "Thou shall not sue thy neighbor" commandment on it. I think a lawyer started that rumor.

 

[revolutionary]

Government caused this problem and government should fix it. Not by bailing people out, not by mandating businesses, not by passing regulations, not by raising taxes, but by leaving business alone to operate privately.

 

[GHook93]

Government caused this problem and government should fix it. Not by bailing people out, not by mandating businesses, not by passing regulations, not by raising taxes, but by leaving business alone to operate privately.

So government is responsible by not keeping their union in reality? Government is responsible for the Big Three signing off on labor agreement which included the dinosaur concept of pension funds (we do 401(k) nowadays)? Its the governments fault the Big three made far inferior cars to the Japs and Germans? The government is responsible for the Big Three continuing to only provide gas-guzzlers when the market was clearly demanding more fuel efficiency? It was the government fault that the the big three got into labor agreements to pay there works 3x times what the competition was paying making their cars more expensive. It the government's fault that Jap cars retain their value 20 fold better than the Big 3's cars? It the governments fault that the Big 3 have been run so incompetently for so long?

The government has some blame no doubt, but the majority of the blame falls on the Big 3 and the UAE!