France Is Interesting In Its Machinations

[Annie]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060311/ap_on_re_eu/france_student_protests

Reform Meets Resistance in Sorbonne Raid

By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press WriterSat Mar 11, 5:09 PM ET

A dramatic nighttime police raid to evict protesting students from Paris' best-known university has increased the furor over the conservative government's effort to reduce unemployment — and exposed how widespread resistance to change remains in France.

Riot police stormed into Sorbonne University before dawn Saturday to force out 200 students who had holed up inside and showered chairs and ladders onto officers' heads from upper floors.

The youths — some of whom who do not attend the landmark Latin Quarter institution — had staged a three-day sit-in to protest a plan by Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin to lower youth unemployment.

On Tuesday, nearly 400,000 people staged nationwide protests against the proposal, which some fear will erode job security for young people.

Many of Villepin's ruling conservatives and opposition Socialists see the standoff as a crucial test that could tip the balance in presidential and legislative elections next year.

"Too bad the elections aren't tomorrow. Frankly, it would be a tidal wave" sweeping conservatives from power, former Socialist Culture Minister Jack Lang told reporters shortly after the police operation.

Villepin's poll numbers have plunged since he began championing the so-called "first job contract" in a bill that became law this week, and the dispute could bode ill for conservatives, including the popular pro-U.S. Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.

The law, which is to take effect by April, makes it easier for employers to hire and fire young workers during the first two years of employment.

Conservatives argue the greater flexibility will spur companies to bring on more young workers. Critics fear the law will provide less job security for youths and erode France's generous labor protections.

Villepin rammed the plan through parliament by invoking a rarely used rule allowing the majority to bypass floor debate, seen as a ploy to skirt possible stalling tactics by opposition lawmakers.

Since he took office in June, Villepin has made a priority of bringing down sky-high unemployment, which has soared to more than 20 percent among youths under the age of 26. Socialists, locked out of power for nearly four years, have offered few high-profile alternatives.

The fight against joblessness gained new urgency last fall when France was swept by a wave of rioting, car burnings and clashes between police and youths from suburban areas home to high immigrant populations, wrenching unemployment and, often, feelings of despair.

Villepin, who has never held elected office but is widely seen as harboring presidential ambitions, was expected to offer his response to the swelling protests in a prime-time TV interview Sunday.

In the Sorbonne melee, two people were injured — a student who fell and a photographer hit by a projectile. Unfazed by the ouster, students vowed to retrench and stage more protests this week.

 

[padisha emperor]

the evacuation by the CRS (Republican Company of Security, elite of the police, expect the RAID, the police commandos) of the Sorbonne was a good thing, this occpuation was illegal.
And the CRS offers to the youthes to leave quiet, and they recieve chairs as answer.

The youthes occup several universities, and sometimes they impeach the acces to the amphitheaters. Lot of youhtes, then, can't follow their instruction.

They're against the CPE, the new contract for the youthes, but often, it's by ignorance of the situation of the CPE and the social laws (very good in France for the workers, but sometimes too good, then, bad for the enterprises).

 

[Said1]

What does the new law state exactly with respect to "youths"?

 

[padisha emperor]

??

I'm sorry, I'm not sure to have well understand your question, can you explain it ? sorry again.

 

[Said1]

??

I'm sorry, I'm not sure to have well understand your question, can you explain it ? sorry again.

What is it about the new employments laws or ammendments to the present laws that upset the students so much?

 

[padisha emperor]

Well.

This CPE has a perdio of 2 years when the chief of eneterprise can fired the worker without a real reason.

It's a "crash" with the very protecting work law in France for the workers.

but a lot ignore that there is all the same a time before to be fired ( a notice of one month), and indemnities.

And they don't understand really why this CPE has been created (to support the creation of jobs, the offer of work).

So, they believe that the ugly bosses will fired everytime the youthes...


They don't see the good sides, the necessity of reform and they don't really know our legislation about the Work and don't see the chance to be a worker in France (a lot of rights, really).

They fear for their future, without real reason in fact.

 

[Jolly]

i have no idea where the persons under 26 years old win anything. I have read about differences that would proove the opposite actually. It seems the bosses are the winners, not the workers. What I dislike the most is how Villepin imposed that contract even though he knew how MANY citizens are against it... I wouldn't call it democracy. But let's just see how things happen and we'll judge after that...

Can't wait for 2007...

 

[rtwngAvngr]

It's not right to selectively target the youth. Hiring and firing should be made more flexible for EVERYBODY. This is going to create intergenerational strife.

 

[padisha emperor]

It's not only for the youthes : CPE is, but before it, during the Summer, the CNE was promulgated, this contract concern everybody (not only the youthes).

CPE was created to make better the employement of the youthes, the youthes fond quite hardly jobs.

With our very protecting legislation for the worker, the boss is not incitated to take youthes, becasue they have not a real professional experience : if it appears he was not able to do well his job, the youthes will be all the same protected, it will cost a lot for the boss to lay him of. (lot of indemnities).

With this contract, the boss can take somebody unqualified, he makes the formation of this youth, and if the youth is good, it's not in the interest of the boss to lay him off. He will keep him in his enterprise.

Exemple : actually : a 24-years-old man want a job, he has not a real professional experience. 3 solutions :

- the boss take him, this guy is good, perfect.
- the boss take him, this guy sucks at work, the boss want to lay him off, but he would have to pay to him several indemnities, often a lot. So, if it is a rich enterprise, OK, if not >> danger for the enterprise to lay him off (lost of money), but not good to keep him, because he's unable to work correctly.

- The boss doesn't take him. Often.


With the CPE :

- The boss take him, the guy is good, he will be kept. He sucks, he will be layed off.
But the boss will really easily take him in his enterprise, the "stress" of the indemnities and bad qualification has quite disappear.

So, better for the employement rate of the youthes, they will find jobs easily.

And if the youth is layed off (sometimes because he was not good, sometimes becasue he was good but the boss layed him off anyway), he will have more professional experience. Then, he will find easily a job with a "real" CDI (contract with an undeterminate time, the dream for a worker). Because a boss risk very rarely to take a youth with a CDI, directly.

the CPE is a CDI, with a formation period of 2 years maximum. And the end of this time, the contract will be a normal CDI, so very protecting for the worker.
But it is not bad here because the boss know that the worker is able to work well, so, he want to keep him.



>>>>>>>> 2 advantages :

- best for the youthes to find a job easily, so more creation of jobs
- best for the youth to earn professional experience.



But a lot of people are against it because they have not all the informations, or bad ones.

They believe that they will be layed off without notice (time before the worker is effectivly layed off) and without money.

WRONG : they will have notice (more they work during the time of 2 years, more this notice is long : they work during 7 monthes : notice of 1 month), and they will have indemnities. Less than with a classic CDI, but quite good all the same, the State will pay them.


De Villepin want to keep this CPE against the majority of the population, becasue he knows that our work legislation has to be reformed and that CPE is not so bad, and can be great.

Denmark has a kind of CPE, it works well.

 

[padisha emperor]

i have no idea where the persons under 26 years old win anything. I have read about differences that would proove the opposite actually. It seems the bosses are the winners, not the workers. What I dislike the most is how Villepin imposed that contract even though he knew how MANY citizens are against it... I wouldn't call it democracy. But let's just see how things happen and we'll judge after that...

Can't wait for 2007...

So, continue the Iraq war against the majority of the population is not democracy, hmm ?


CPE can be very good for the youthes. It's why it is kept.

 

[Annie]

Oh my, the idea that the owners of a business could actually control the business, is considered blaspheme:

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/new...T194204Z_01_L17342207_RTRUKOC_0_UK-FRANCE.xml

Huge protests against French job law, some violence
Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:42 PM GMT

By Matthew Bigg and Kerstin Gehmlich

PARIS (Reuters) - Hundreds of thousands of students, workers and left-wing politicians took to the streets across France on Saturday to press the conservative government to scrap a new law they fear will erode job security.

Pleased with the turnout, student and trade union leaders said President Jacques Chirac and Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin "bear full responsibility for these social tensions" and agreed to meet on Monday to consider further action.

The marches were mostly festive and peaceful, but dozens of youths pelted police with missiles, overturning and setting fire to a car at the end of the main protest in Paris. Police fired many rounds of tear gas to clear them from Nation square.

Scattered violence was also reported in Marseille, Rennes and Lille, where police also charged and teargassed crowds.

In the first official reaction, government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope said: "Beyond the passions of the moment, don't we all have an interest in a dialogue?"

But he ducked a television interviewer's question whether the government would withdraw the controversial law, which the unions say must be scrapped before they will sit down and talk.

Organisers estimated the turnout nationwide at 1.3 to 1.4 million, with up to 400,000 of them in Paris. As usual, the official count was lower -- the Interior Ministry reported 503,000 nationwide, with 80,000 in Paris.

The protesters demanded Villepin withdraw the "First Job Contract" or CPE, which lets firms fire workers under 26 without explanation in their first two years on the job. He launched it to spur wary employers to take on new staff.

In the western city of Rennes, students wore plastic garbage bags with signs declaring: "I am disposable."

"I risk working for two years for nothing, just to be fired at any moment," said Paris student Coralie Huvet, 20, who had "No to the CPE" written on her forehead. Pointing to painted-on tears, she added: "That's depressing, that's why I'm crying."

YOUNG AND OLD UNITED

Organisers, who decry the CPE as a "Kleenex contract" that lets young workers be "thrown away like a paper tissue," said they hoped to have up to 1.5 million people out marching in the third national protest in six weeks.

The Paris march began with students in front and workers behind, but turned into a multi-generational mix including many parents who accompanied their teenage children. Banners declared "No to throw-away youths" and "Tired Of Being Squeezed Lemons."

Opposition Socialist and Communist politicians also joined the protest, only the third time in almost four decades -- after 1968 and 1994 -- that students and workers marched together.

Union leaders suggested they might call a one-day general strike soon, but did not immediately announce any plans.

In the Paris unrest, 12 protesters were injured and 14 arrested, police said, while four policemen were also hurt.

In Rennes, police had to storm a group of protesters to remove them from a railway line they were blocking. Another group attacked the local office of the governing UMP party.

Villepin, whose gamble on this unpopular contract could cost him his chance to run for president next year, has pledged not to give in to street pressure. At the same time, he hinted on Friday evening that he could make some adjustments to the law.

Unemployment is the top political issue in France, where the national average is 9.6 percent and youth joblessness is double that. The rate rises to 40-50 percent in some of the poor suburbs hit by several weeks of youth rioting last autumn.

Defending the CPE contract, Cope argued it was better than the present situation in which 70 percent of employees under 26 work under short-term contracts of only a few months, after which they can be fired just as easily as with the new contract.

The protesters responded with one popular slogan: "The CPE is not better than nothing, it's worse than everything."

Latest opinion polls show that 68 percent of French people oppose the law, a rise of 13 percentage points in a week, and that Villepin's popularity has dropped six points to 37 percent.

The crisis has isolated Villepin politically at a time when his patron Chirac is himself badly weakened. Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, Villepin's main rival on the right, has stood back discreetly as the prime minister's troubles mount.

Unexpected violence broke out in Lyon when a march of about 2,500 Turks protesting against a memorial to Armenian victims of a 1915 massacre in the then Ottoman Empire crossed paths with the anti-CPE demonstrations.

 

[manu1959]

poor babies...california is an at will employment state which means anyone of any age can be fired at any time without cause notice or explanation

 

[rtwngAvngr]

PE, they are selectively targeting youths. EVERYONE should have the burden of having to be good to keep their jobs. They may get hired easier, but they are a walking target for the other workers. "Hey, blame the young guy, he can be eliminated."

 

[Said1]

Looks like another strike, mon dieux.

France under threat of general strike
Unions step up opposition to new employment contract

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Less than six months after violent riots erupted across its cities, France is in turmoil again as opposition to a controversial new employment law threatens to shut down the country.
Trade unionists on Sunday said they would launch a general strike this week if Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin doesn't withdraw his proposal for an employment contract that would make it easier for firms to lay off young workers without reason.
Over the past two weeks, peaceful student protests have escalated into outright confrontations with the police and the overnight occupation of the Sorbonne University as French youth resist a measure designed to tackle the country's No.1 social problem. More than one in five young people in France is without a job.
France's youth unemployment stands at 23%, rising to 50% in some of the suburbs that were convulsed by riots last fall.
On Saturday, about 1.5 million protesters took to the streets in mass demonstrations. Trade unions gave de Villepin until Monday night to withdraw the proposal. He has vowed to stand firm, even as his ratings in opinions polls have plunged, potentially damaging his prospects in next year's presidential race.

Continued

 

[Adam's Apple]

poor babies...california is an at will employment state which means anyone of any age can be fired at any time without cause notice or explanation

Same here in Indiana. I'd say the French workers have had it pretty darn good. No wonder they're having such fits!

 

[Adam's Apple]

French Student Riots
by Thomas Sowell
March 17, 2006

The fact that many students can think only in terms of "rights," but not in terms of consequences, shows a major deficiency in their education. The right to a job is obviously not the same thing as a job. Otherwise there would not be a 23 percent unemployment rate among young French workers.

The law can create equal rights for inexperienced young workers and for older workers with a proven track record but the law cannot make them equally productive on the job or equally risky to hire. Nor is rioting likely to make employers any more likely to want young workers working for them.

Estimates of the damage done by the rioters -- called "protesters" or "demonstrators" in the mealy-mouthed media -- range from hundreds of thousands of dollars to over a million dollars, thus far. They have also shut down dozens of universities, including the Sorbonne, denying an education to other students.

The heady notion of "rights" -- and especially the notion that your rights over-ride other people's rights, when those other people belong to some suspect class called "bosses" -- is an all too familiar feature of modern welfare state notions.

French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who supports the new labor law, has seen his approval rating drop to 36 percent. That is what happens when you try to talk sense to people who prefer to believe nonsense.

for full article: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=13337

 

[Bonnie]

Oh my, the idea that the owners of a business could actually control the business, is considered blaspheme:

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/new...T194204Z_01_L17342207_RTRUKOC_0_UK-FRANCE.xml

C'mon now Kathianne, we all know that business and commerce are only there for the people to use as they see fit. :baby4:

 

[Bonnie]

French Student Riots
by Thomas Sowell
March 17, 2006

The fact that many students can think only in terms of "rights," but not in terms of consequences, shows a major deficiency in their education. The right to a job is obviously not the same thing as a job. Otherwise there would not be a 23 percent unemployment rate among young French workers.

The law can create equal rights for inexperienced young workers and for older workers with a proven track record but the law cannot make them equally productive on the job or equally risky to hire. Nor is rioting likely to make employers any more likely to want young workers working for them.

Estimates of the damage done by the rioters -- called "protesters" or "demonstrators" in the mealy-mouthed media -- range from hundreds of thousands of dollars to over a million dollars, thus far. They have also shut down dozens of universities, including the Sorbonne, denying an education to other students.

The heady notion of "rights" -- and especially the notion that your rights over-ride other people's rights, when those other people belong to some suspect class called "bosses" -- is an all too familiar feature of modern welfare state notions.

French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who supports the new labor law, has seen his approval rating drop to 36 percent. That is what happens when you try to talk sense to people who prefer to believe nonsense.

for full article: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=13337

Great article Adam...This really goes to show the mentality of those so immersed in socialism they can't see beyond their own shadows