Facing Nolan

[Weatherman2020]

As Bob Feller famously said about Mr. Ryan (I'm paraphrasing), he can not be called great because his winning percentage was mediocre (324/292).

And that is the biggest question about Ryan - not his failure to win a Cy Young award. Why did he have such a weak W-L record?

My own personal belief was the phenomenon had two causes: (1) He always was scheduled to pitch against the opponent's best pitcher, and (2) the opponents played extra-tough against Ryan because they assumed that it would be a low-scoring game, regardless.

Like Tim Wakefield (is this sacreligious?), he was a very popular pitcher whose record was not particularly impressive.

Just as important, he seemed to be a humble, no nonsense guy. Lord, we could use more of that sort today.

No one can explain why he never won a Cy Young, let alone 5.

51 MLB records in his name.

 

[Harry Dresden]

No one can explain why he never won a Cy Young, let alone 5.

51 MLB records in his name.
View attachment 700548

because he was on a shitty team.....

 

[DGS49]

Tell Steve Carlton. He managed to do OK on a shitty team.

Ryan wasn't always on shitty teams. His W-L record speaks for itself and it doesn't say, "great." It says, "sporadically great." Occasionally unhittable.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Tell Steve Carlton. He managed to do OK on a shitty team.

Ryan wasn't always on shitty teams. His W-L record speaks for itself and it doesn't say, "great." It says, "sporadically great." Occasionally unhittable.

in his prime years he was on a shitty team.....the guy lost a lot of 1 run games.....i know i was there....

 

[Mr. Friscus]

No one can explain why he never won a Cy Young, let alone 5.

51 MLB records in his name.
View attachment 700548

If I recall correctly, there was clearly one year when Ryan should have won the Cy Young, while 2 other years he could have but probably shouldn't have.

The 80's had a kick of relievers who won Cy Youngs.

 

[task0778]

I saw 2 Ryan no-hitters, the 1973 one in Detroit (I was a Tigers fan) and the 2nd one in Houston in 1981. I remember watching him warm-up before the game, and when he threw the fastball you couldn't see it but you could sure as hell hear it when the catcher caught it. That musta been scary for the catcher, if he bounces one up there it could hurt bad if it hit you.

PS: my Tigers never even sniffed a hit that day.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I saw 2 Ryan no-hitters, the 1973 one in Detroit (I was a Tigers fan) and the 2nd one in Houston in 1981. I remember watching him warm-up before the game, and when he threw the fastball you couldn't see it but you could sure as hell hear it when the catcher caught it. That musta been scary for the catcher, if he bounces one up there it could hurt bad if it hit you.

PS: my Tigers never even sniffed a hit that day.

i saw 2 also in Anaheim....he had 5 no hitters broke up in the ninth inning.....he had 12 complete game 1 hitters....

 

[Weatherman2020]

If I recall correctly, there was clearly one year when Ryan should have won the Cy Young, while 2 other years he could have but probably shouldn't have.

The 80's had a kick of relievers who won Cy Youngs.

72-74 he was by far the most dominating pitcher in MLB and should have won easily. But he wasn’t playing for a champion team, which is stupid.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Tell Steve Carlton. He managed to do OK on a shitty team.

Ryan wasn't always on shitty teams. His W-L record speaks for itself and it doesn't say, "great." It says, "sporadically great." Occasionally unhittable.

51 MLB records.
No pitcher comes close.

 

[Mac-7]

Looking forward to this coming out next week, one of my favorites. Was fortunate to live close to Anaheim stadium in the fun years.

Was pissed they traded Jim Fregosi for some guy named Nolan Ryan and a handful of other nobody's. That quickly changed.
He’d walk the bases loaded then fan the next 3 batters.
Was there when they used a new technology that could measure the speed of the baseball and it clocked him at 100.7. In the 8th inning when most pitchers are running on fumes.
Was there when he said he wanted to be the first to throw back to back no hitters and he went 7-1/3 before Hank Aaron slapped a clean single to center.
Saw him fan 18 in a game.
Saw him strike out Reggie Jackson in what I later learned was an at bat agreement in a meaningless game that Nolan would only throw fast balls during.

Many others. Going to Cooperstown in a few days, want to see his plaque.

Nolan kicks ass

 

[Weatherman2020]

Nolan kicks ass

One of baseball’s greatest hits.

 

[Mac-7]

One of baseball’s greatest hits.

I never get tired of watching it

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Nolan Ryan was something!

Him, Carlton, And Jenkins were my favorites from that era…

 

[Mr. Friscus]

72-74 he was by far the most dominating pitcher in MLB and should have won easily. But he wasn’t playing for a champion team, which is stupid.

i saw 2 also in Anaheim....he had 5 no hitters broke up in the ninth inning.....he had 12 complete game 1 hitters....

Nolan Ryan had 3 years where he should have clearly been considered.

1973 he lost to Jim Palmer.
- Palmer went 22-9, 158 K's, 296 IP, ERA 2.4
- Ryan went 21-16, 383 K's.. a beast. 326 IP, ERA 2.87.
- Bert Blyleven went 20-17, 258 K's, 325 IP's, ERA 2.52

There's a case to made for any of these 3. Palmer had the best record and lowest ERA, Ryan had the highest ERA but was a punchout machine and workhorse, and Blyleven was also a workhouse with a better ERA. I don't think you could say Ryan was "robbed" here, but he definitely COULD have won in a different era.

1981 he lost to Fernando Valenzuela, Fernando Mania, in a strike shortened season:
- Ryan went 11-5, 1.69 ERA, 149 IP, 140 K's, 5 complete games
- Valenzeula 13-7, 2.48 ERA, 192 IP, 180 K's, 11 complete games

While Ryan put up numbers that definitely warranted consideration, Fernando-mania was a phenomenon that he wasn't going to overcome. Ryan's ERA was magical, and that's usually the greatest stat out there though. I'm not saying it's right... I'd say he was kinda-robbed that year.

1987? He lost to reliever Steve Bedrosian (LOL). This was the year he should have won. Oddly, he didn't get a single first place vote, and was 5th despite leading the league in multiple categories.
- Ryan 8-16, 2.76 ERA, 270 K's, 211 IP
- Bedrosian 5-3, 2.83 ERA, 74 K's, 40 Saves

Ryan should have at least 1 Cy young in 1987.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

72-74 he was by far the most dominating pitcher in MLB and should have won easily. But he wasn’t playing for a champion team, which is stupid.

I already covered 1973...but here's the other 2 years.

1972
- Steve Carlton 27-10, 346 IP, 310 K's, 1.97 ERA
- Nolan Ryan 19-16, 284 IP, 329 K's, 2.28 ERA

No way Ryan tops Carlton in 1972

1974
- Catfish Hunter 25-12, 23 complete games, 318 IP, 143 K's, 2.49 ERA
- Nolan Ryan 22-16, 26 complete games, 333 IP, 367 K's, 2.89 ERA

Ryan dominates in K's, but Hunter has a lower ERA. I usually value ERA as the prime stat for a pitcher, so I won't object to him getting the nod in 1974

 

[Harry Dresden]

Nolan Ryan had 3 years where he should have clearly been considered.

1973 he lost to Jim Palmer.
- Palmer went 22-9, 158 K's, 296 IP, ERA 2.4
- Ryan went 21-16, 383 K's.. a beast. 326 IP, ERA 2.87.
- Bert Blyleven went 20-17, 258 K's, 325 IP's, ERA 2.52

There's a case to made for any of these 3. Palmer had the best record and lowest ERA, Ryan had the highest ERA but was a punchout machine and workhorse, and Blyleven was also a workhouse with a better ERA. I don't think you could say Ryan was "robbed" here, but he definitely COULD have won in a different era.

1981 he lost to Fernando Valenzuela, Fernando Mania, in a strike shortened season:
- Ryan went 11-5, 1.69 ERA, 149 IP, 140 K's, 5 complete games
- Valenzeula 13-7, 2.48 ERA, 192 IP, 180 K's, 11 complete games

While Ryan put up numbers that definitely warranted consideration, Fernando-mania was a phenomenon that he wasn't going to overcome. Ryan's ERA was magical, and that's usually the greatest stat out there though. I'm not saying it's right... I'd say he was kinda-robbed that year.

1987? He lost to reliever Steve Bedrosian (LOL). This was the year he should have won. Oddly, he didn't get a single first place vote, and was 5th despite leading the league in multiple categories.
- Ryan 8-16, 2.76 ERA, 270 K's, 211 IP
- Bedrosian 5-3, 2.83 ERA, 74 K's, 40 Saves

Ryan should have at least 1 Cy young in 1987.

in 73 he was 2nd in the voting in 74 he was 3rd,,,,in 77 he was 3rd....

 

[Weatherman2020]

I already covered 1973...but here's the other 2 years.

1972
- Steve Carlton 27-10, 346 IP, 310 K's, 1.97 ERA
- Nolan Ryan 19-16, 284 IP, 329 K's, 2.28 ERA

No way Ryan tops Carlton in 1972

1974
- Catfish Hunter 25-12, 23 complete games, 318 IP, 143 K's, 2.49 ERA
- Nolan Ryan 22-16, 26 complete games, 333 IP, 367 K's, 2.89 ERA

Ryan dominates in K's, but Hunter has a lower ERA. I usually value ERA as the prime stat for a pitcher, so I won't object to him getting the nod in 1974

Carlton was in another league and therefore ineligible for the AL Cy Young. Hunter played with an all star packed world championship team, Ryan had a team of minor leaguers behind him.